Dying with Dignity Bill

Registered 11/10/2020 eh

dark crystal

buddabelly wrote: »

So your saying she wants to give up her free will, and put her death on someone else's concision?
Why does she want to burden someone else with that, why not do the deed and let the other mourn her instead of feeling guilty of killing her?
Its 100% selfish, if you want to die have at it, dont drag others into it and fill the rest of their lives will guilt.

Why bring your terminally ill family pet to the veterinarian instead of just whacking it across the head with a mallet or throwing it into the canal?

Dying with dignity, administered by a compassionate trained medical professional should not just be reserved for the family pet.

Akrasia

nolivesmatter wrote: »

I'd support the idea that someone should be allowed to make the decision if they so choose. My only worry would be that after it's done some information comes to light that reveals that the terminal diagnosis was incorrect or something.

Its verging on science fiction to say that it is likely that someone has gotten to the point where they opted for assisted suicide just before a cure was announced, but even this is not a valid argument because allowing assisted suicide, by definition makes people more likely to delay suicide until later in the progression of their illness, and by definition, it makes them consult with their family and medical team to massively reduce the chances that an individual, acting on their own, with poor quality information, might do something out of fear or panic.

Guy:Incognito

buddabelly wrote: »

So your saying she wants to give up her free will, and put her death on someone else's concision?
Why does she want to burden someone else with that, why not do the deed and let the other mourn her instead of feeling guilty of killing her?
Its 100% selfish, if you want to die have at it, dont drag others into it and fill the rest of their lives will guilt.

Who are these people that are going to be forced to assist suicides against their will?

nolivesmatter

nolivesmatter wrote: »

I'd support the idea that someone should be allowed to make the decision if they so choose. My only worry would be that after it's done some information comes to light that reveals that the terminal diagnosis was incorrect or something.

An initial diagnosis can be wrong, but further testing is carried out to confirm that it's correct or not, otherwise like in the case of cancers the treatment would kill you.
There are cases of medical negligence but that's a whole lot of negligence, and I for one would be looking for a second opinion.

Guy:Incognito

buddabelly wrote: »

If they spent 10% as must time researching suicide by pill as they have on this BS law change they would not mess up with the suicide attempt.

Maybe people could spend some time and learn to treat all their medical issues themselves. That can only end well im sure.......

Akrasia

buddabelly wrote: »

So your saying she wants to give up her free will, and put her death on someone else's concision?
Why does she want to burden someone else with that, why not do the deed and let the other mourn her instead of feeling guilty of killing her?
Its 100% selfish, if you want to die have at it, dont drag others into it and fill the rest of their lives will guilt.

She is giving the power of attorney to a trusted family member to carry out her wishes when she is no longer capable of acting on her own

Why would someone feel guilty for carrying out someone elses wishes over their own welfare? Why would someone feel more guilty for carrying out the wishes to end her life, than for hearing those wishes and not being able to act on them?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Registered 11/10/2020 eh

One thing about threads like this they always attract the trolls alright.

Guy:Incognito

buddabelly wrote: »

Plenty of folk end it everyday without the drama, have at it, these campaigners are nothing but drama queens.
You want to end your life , have at it, don't involve the state or anyone else, man/woman up and DO IT!

I hope you extend this to all your own issues and dont burden the state or anyone else with any of your issues?

Lose your job? Deal with it yourself, dont expect the state to help you.

Get cancer? jump in there with a penknife and cut it out.

Break a leg? Man up, wrap a bandage on it and get on with your life.

Akrasia

Use some empathy, put yourself in the position of someone who is facing a slow painful death but who wants to spend as much time as possible with your loved ones before it becomes unbearable.


Try it.
Imagine what that is like

Your loved ones want what is best for you, and you want what is best for them. And everyone is acting in good faith to try to find the least worst outcome to a bad situation for everyone

Akrasia

buddabelly wrote: »

So these same folk that want the state to kill them officially because of unending pain , cant suffer a minutes drowning?
Get out of it, you want to die , not a single thing in this world is stopping you , have at it, dont drag others into it, go do one.

Nobody wants 'the state' to kill them 'officially'
They want to be able to arrange their own death with their doctors present and their family and friends nearby so they can say goodbye and die with dignity
All they want from the state is to not prosecute those family and friends and doctors for murder

dark crystal

Akrasia wrote: »

Use some empathy, put yourself in the position of someone who is facing a slow painful death but who wants to spend as much time as possible with your loved ones before it becomes unbearable.

I think that's clearly beyond some people's capabilities.

Lads, seriously

Registered an hour ago.

DNFTT.

Coillte_Bhoy

buddabelly wrote: »

Those who have died by drowning and been brought back have overwhelmingly said it was peaceful.
If you are worried take a fist full of pill and fall asleep, no need for a change in the law

Wow, well at least we know you arent coming at this from a Christian perspective

Akrasia

dark crystal wrote: »

I think that's clearly beyond some people's capabilities.

Perhaps, but at least they might have to google the definition

Coillte_Bhoy

buddabelly wrote: »

Fist full of pills, problem solved, but they are selfish and want to drag others into it and fill them full of guilt.

Sounds good so, but what if you are not able to access these 'pills'? Which pills by the way?

Akrasia

Deleted User wrote: »

Lads, seriously

Registered an hour ago.

DNFTT.

yeah. but it's basically a fast forward edition of any thread if this bill does become adopted.

The poster may or may not be a troll, but we have all seen these arguments being used by people who think they're being clever.

I think the way to argue against them is to focus on empathy, by focusing on how a terminally ill person who is scared of dying in pain and out of control would feel.

Not because this would win an argument, but because this is the entire point of why Assisted dying is even being considered in the first place.

dark crystal

buddabelly wrote: »

So you are in pain and your loved ones see this every day.
"I know how i can increase their pain , i get them to kill me!"

Do it yourselfe, dont burden your loved ones with it, pure selfish to ask a love one to help you kill yourselfe, man/woman up and do it.

Not sure if the lack of comprehension is a put on or what, but it's not the family who end their suffering, it would be a trained medical professional.

Coillte_Bhoy

buddabelly wrote: »

So you are in pain and your loved ones see this every day.
"I know how i can increase their pain , i get them to kill me!"

Do it yourselfe, dont burden your loved ones with it, pure selfish to ask a love one to help you kill yourselfe, man/woman up and do it.

Ok but why is it bothering you so much?

Akrasia

buddabelly wrote: »

So you are in pain and your loved ones see this every day.
"I know how i can increase their pain , i get them to kill me!"

Do it yourselfe, dont burden your loved ones with it, pure selfish to ask a love one to help you kill yourselfe, man/woman up and do it.

If that is your idea of empathy for how these people are actually thinking then you are a disturbed person

A new exercise for you. You walk into your mothers room to wake her up after she didn't answer her phone earlier. she has 'taken a fistful of pills'
She was too afraid to tell anyone about her reason for killing herself in case it implicated them in her death and they might be arrested for assisted suicide.

How does that feel for the person who discovered the body?

nolivesmatter

Akrasia wrote: »

Its verging on science fiction to say that it is likely that someone has gotten to the point where they opted for assisted suicide just before a cure was announced, but even this is not a valid argument because allowing assisted suicide, by definition makes people more likely to delay suicide until later in the progression of their illness, and by definition, it makes them consult with their family and medical team to massively reduce the chances that an individual, acting on their own, with poor quality information, might do something out of fear or panic.

I wasn't suggesting that, but rather a mistake in the diagnosis being terminal ( prognosis I suppose be the correct term to use in this case). Though I take your point on people being more likely to wait until later in the progression of the illness.

Mules

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

This issue is coming down to people who want to let others live and die as they want themselves and religious people trying to tell other how they have to live and die based on the religious persons beliefs and the person concerned can just lump it.

People can be against euthanasia without being in any way religious. Same with abortion and many other things. Similar to some people who are religious being in favour of one or both. Most people nowadays don't see things through a religious view. Some people just have different opinions than you. I wouldn't get so upset over it, it's natural that not everyone thinks the same.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Mules wrote: »

People can be against euthanasia without being in any way religious. Same with abortion and many other things. Similar to some people who are religious being in favour of one or both. Most people nowadays don't see things through a religious view. Some people just have different opinions than you. I wouldn't get so upset over it, it's natural that not everyone thinks the same.

They can but there tends to be a lot of overlap, from my own observations.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

nolivesmatter wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting that, but rather a mistake in the diagnosis being terminal ( prognosis I suppose be the correct term to use in this case). Though I take your point on people being more likely to wait until later in the progression of the illness.

A misdiagnosis is possible but highly unlikely. When a person has reached the terminal phase, that’s the confirmation. Like I do have terminal cancer but I’m not in the dying phase yet. When I am, cancer will be overwhelming me, my organs will start to fail and my scans will light up like a macabre Christmas tree. And miraculous recoveries are incredibly rare. So rare they tend to get reported on because they are so unusual. My type of metastatic cancer - if you get it, you will die from it. No exceptions. And histology confirms it as that disease and is highly unlikely to be wrong.

Conor Bourke

dark crystal wrote: »

Not sure if the lack of comprehension is a put on or what, but it's not the family who end their suffering, it would be a trained medical professional.

I thought with it being assisted suicide that it could/would be family or friend as opposed to a medical professional who would be providing the assistance.

Cornelius Crow

Cornelius Crow wrote: »

I thought with it being assisted suicide that it could/would be family or friend as opposed to a medical professional who would be providing the assistance.

In the Netherlands it is doctors

Akrasia

I hope when my time approaches, I'll be able to face it with the strength and maturity that you are displaying on here

I hope you are able to receive the best possible support and care from your family, friends and our medical services during this time.

Annasopra

I think Buddabelly missed the death of Marie Fleming 7 years ago. As he is going on and on about her being still alive

https://www.thejournal.ie/marie-fleming-funeral-1235642-Dec2013/

mvl

There may be other ways, using mindfulness,meditation ( But a death reengagement movement is surging in the West today, led by individuals who believe we can dismantle the problematic cultural stories. The movement’s mission is to catalyze a cultural paradigm shift by engaging in thoughtful conversations and reclaiming practices and perspectives often missing from our own and others’ experiences. It encourages people to consider how, instead of demeaning and disconnecting from death, we can recognize and re-engage with it. )
- perhaps those familiar with eastern culture can share some insights - how is the western debate on this subject perceived in China, Taiwan, India ...

From another point of view, after reading about NZs euthanasia referendum - appears their rules are much stricter - has anybody asked why is current Irish proposal so relaxed ?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Akrasia wrote: »

I hope when my time approaches, I'll be able to face it with the strength and maturity that you are displaying on here

I hope you are able to receive the best possible support and care from your family, friends and our medical services during this time.

Oh, I’m scared shitless. Absolutely bricking it. I put it out my mind because thinking about death freaks me out so much. I was always afraid of death and when I got my diagnosis, well firstly I felt like the universe was laughing at me and secondly, I didn’t feel a calm wash over me, I went into pure panic mode. And that hasn’t really diminished much over the years. I’ve just learned to compartmentalise it better.

This morning, a new lump has popped up in my armpit. Oh joy.