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Rent up 62% since 2010

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    #32
    smellyoldboot
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭smellyoldboot


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    I've always wondered how many properties are owned by TDs, in total and as an average. I suspect it's not more than two each at most, probably more like one. After tax I exepct the average TD is making next to fúck all in comparison to the massive salary and benefits. I'd expect they'd make more, in cash flow terms, by fidling mileage.

    The mileage fiddle doesn't do much for the retirement nest egg thought.

    Someone else is covering your costs for both however.


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    #33
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    smellyoldboot wrote: »
    Just the amateur greedy Irish ones tbh. There's plenty (albeit very few on this soggy dump) that see it for what is: a long term investment in a large asset that can be cost offset by renting it out, rather than a quick buck or something that somebody else must cover all the cost for in entirety.

    You'd be ok with non Irish landlords then? English for example?

    I'm curious though. How is something a better investment the more the investor puts into it Vs the investor putting less into it but getting the same return.


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    #34
    smellyoldboot
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭smellyoldboot


    beauf wrote: »
    You'd be ok with non Irish landlords then? English for example?

    I'm curious though. How is something a better investment the more the investor puts into it Vs the investor putting less into it but getting the same return.

    It's not, property in Ireland seems to be a great investment. Rent controls are laughable to non-existent. The tenant basically covers the entire cost of the mortgage for you plus maintenance and even s bit of profit that yes you have to pay the awful tax man from.

    It's sod all to do with nationality, just this being Ireland, most of our small landlords will be Irish.

    There are German REITs betting the farm on property here too engaging in gouging they wouldn't be left do in their own country.

    Hopefully the aftershock to all this has a cleansing effect and exposes what the real value of property in Ireland should be.


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    #35
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    So basically theres nothing in what you wrote that even you agree with.


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    #36
    smellyoldboot
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭smellyoldboot


    beauf wrote: »
    So basically theres nothing in what you wrote that even you agree with.

    Oh there is. I hope the arse falls out of the market altogether and reality hits hard.


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    #37
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    smellyoldboot wrote: »
    ...Rent controls are laughable to non-existent. ....

    When People demanded rent controls they were told they wouldn't fix the problem. Seems they were right.


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    #38
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    smellyoldboot wrote: »
    Oh there is. I hope the arse falls out of the market altogether and reality hits hard.

    The reality being what exactly?


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    #39
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    smellyoldboot wrote: »
    It's not, property in Ireland seems to be a great investment. Rent controls are laughable to non-existent. The tenant basically covers the entire cost of the mortgage for you plus maintenance and even s bit of profit that yes you have to pay the awful tax man from.

    It's sod all to do with nationality, just this being Ireland, most of our small landlords will be Irish.

    There are German REITs betting the farm on property here too engaging in gouging they wouldn't be left do in their own country.

    Hopefully the aftershock to all this has a cleansing effect and exposes what the real value of property in Ireland should be.

    You don't get to rent a property in Germany, refuse to pay rent yet remain in place for two years and finally leave the joint like a bomb went off inside it while walking away Scott free

    No better country in Europe for rogue tenants, politicians in Parliament will rally behind you to boot


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    #40
    smellyoldboot
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭smellyoldboot


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    You don't get to rent a property in Germany, refuse to pay rent yet remain in place for two years and finally leave the joint like a bomb went off inside it while walking away Scott free

    No better country in Europe for rogue tenants, politicians in Parliament will rally behind you to boot

    Agreed. We certainly are lacking in any kind of personal responsibility. But allowing gouging on the level that it takes place in Ireland to occur in place of real legislation is laissez-faire abdication of responsibility that belongs in the 19th century.

    That said there are very few places to match Dublin in particular for the disparity between salaries and rents and those that do are very much global cities with populations and draw factors that far outweigh Dublin.

    It all looks and feels very artificially inflated/propped up and that particular house of cards can't fall quick enough.


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    #41
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,515 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    AlanG wrote: »
    Very selective starting date. Lots of landlords still in negative equity since 2005-2008.

    How can any house owner be in negative equity since 2008?

    I find that very hard to believe?

    They would have made 12 years of mortgage repayments, so surely the mortgage balance is now below the house value?


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    #42
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    The market will try to get best price it can. If the govt wants to control it they can. They set up the RPZ in a way that penalised those on below market rates, so encouraging price increases. It also encouraged those on low rents to leave the market and new landlords to enter the market on max rents.

    You don't do that by accident.

    Similarly in the middle of a historic housing crisis especially in affordable and social housing. You dont stop building that type of housing. You don't privatise the least profitable housing. Because that will be the last thing people will build.


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    #43
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Geuze wrote: »
    How can any house owner be in negative equity since 2008?

    I find that very hard to believe?

    They would have made 12 years of mortgage repayments, so surely the mortgage balance is now below the house value?

    Most mortgages will be 20-30 yrs. 12yrs in you're probably just paid off the interest. How many in negative equity?

    https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/negative-equity-end-in-sight-for-homeowners-37944309.html


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    #44
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,515 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    beauf wrote: »
    Most mortgages will be 20-30 yrs. 12yrs in you're probably just paid off the interest. How many in negative equity?

    https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/negative-equity-end-in-sight-for-homeowners-37944309.html

    Capital is repaid each and every year of a mortgage.

    Less capital in the early years, yes, ok. But still some.

    Let's assume a 25 yr mortgage. After 12 years, I am guessing 1/3 of the capital is repaid.

    House value = 100.
    Mortgage = 90
    After 12 years, mortgage = 60

    Are there houses in 2020 below 60% of their 2008 value?

    Maybe in Ballyhaunis?


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    #45
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,515 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    beauf wrote: »
    Most mortgages will be 20-30 yrs. 12yrs in you're probably just paid off the interest. How many in negative equity?

    https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/negative-equity-end-in-sight-for-homeowners-37944309.html

    Yes, that article says that negative equity should disappear by 2020.


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    #46
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    There more than one type of mortgage.

    That article suggests about 16000 still in negative equity and getting out in 2020. That might be 2021 now...


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    #47
    Yyhhuuu
    Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Yyhhuuu


    smellyoldboot wrote: »
    Hopefully the aftershock of the pandemic will be a real hard lesson for Ireland's greedy landlord class. I've no time for anyone's hard luck "accidental" landlord or "negative equity" stories either. That lot are the greediest baxtards of all, expecting some poor shmuck to cover the mortgage on their ****ty investment and a little top up to boot all the while moaning about paying taxes.

    Talk about bedgrugary. There are many good landlords out there who dont overcharge and provide a service. Dont you forget over half the rent goes back to the government to pay taxes to support welfare recipients, health ( where there is a huge overspend even pre-covid).etc etc by the way many landlords are selling up and this means less property for renters so rents go up. It's simple supply and demand.


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    #48
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Ask your favourite local politician if they are a landlord. If they are, ask what they charge in rent.


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    #49
    housetypeb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    biko wrote: »
    Ask your favourite local politician if they are a landlord. If they are, ask what they charge in rent.

    What would that prove?


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    #50
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 17,078 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Minding her everyone’s cup of tea but David McWilliams article in today’s IT lays out the facts .


    Irish rents have gone up 62.4% since since 2010 whilst wages have gone up 20%. So as each year goes by people have less and less money left after paying their rent . How can wage increases or inflation not include such a big a factor as the percentage increases in rent when awarding wage increases or annual inflation figures .Many people with less disposable income leads to other business having less customers and closing down like many pubs etc ..... the only ones winning are landlords??

    if it is true, thats a function of supply vs demand.

    the gov removed a huge chunk of the supply in their endeavour to meet the supply by removing landlords' rights.

    zero forethought, zero ****s given to property owners; and now the consequences.


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    #51
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    housetypeb wrote: »
    What would that prove?
    You want lower rents? You need to challenge the people that can influence that using legislation.
    Or I suppose people can keep posting here while nothing happens IRL..


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    #52
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 17,078 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    biko wrote: »
    You want lower rents? You need to challenge the people that can influence that using legislation.
    Or I suppose people can keep posting here while nothing happens IRL..

    you really want a free functioning market.

    take spar as an example. imagine people were robbing that, then the government legislates that you cant ban them, just let them keep robbing.

    eventually that spar shop closes.


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    #53
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Yyhhuuu wrote: »
    Talk about bedgrugary. There are many good landlords out there who dont overcharge and provide a service. Dont you forget over half the rent goes back to the government to pay taxes to support welfare recipients, health ( where there is a huge overspend even pre-covid).etc etc by the way many landlords are selling up and this means less property for renters so rents go up. It's simple supply and demand.

    Hahaha if you think people are declaring all their rental income to revenue you are crazy


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    #54
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭enricoh


    There's less properties to rent and less landlords in the game year after year, surely if there was money in it there'd be more of both?


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    #55
    Yyhhuuu
    Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Yyhhuuu


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    Hahaha if you think people are declaring all their rental income to revenue you are crazy

    Well most landlords nowadays are very professional and declare all income to the Revenue. Why wouldn't they as otherwise it's a very expensive " loan " from the state with interest, penalties it ends up multiples of original tax. They're STUPID if they dont. What's more most tenants pay by credit transfer to the Landlod's bank.

    What evidence have you of tax evasion?
    I suggest you report "shadow economy" activity to the Revenue if you have concrete evidence of same and are as concerned about it as you appear to be.

    Were not in the 1980s anymore....


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