Budget 2021

lawrencesummers

80sDiesel wrote: »

You will have customs duty and VAT. And VRT. But the car will need to be inspected at the dock by a custom official. You are not allowed to enter that area so you will need to hire an agent to gain access to your car. Look up importing a car from Japan and it’s a cumbersome process.
( I imported cars from nz and Australia )

So Brexit has a bigger cost than any budget change.

Isn’t there talk of January including a 30 day grace period for vRT?

Is it possible that The new rates will apply from January 1st but you will have until the end of the month to pay it?

Or is that a massive risk? Buy a car end of December and VRT it on the new rates in January?

reubenreuben

My diesel car that I imported 2 years ago is 139 CO2. If I imported it from jan 2021, it would be classed as 171 CO2 and have a vrt charge of 31%.

It was 19% before.

5500

The changes may well kill off a lot of hot hatches. Just as an example new Honda Civic Type R moves up from 177kg co2 to 193kg with Wltp

Its current VRT band is 30%, but new band will be 37%, so 7% increase in VRT may well add a couple of grand onto the price, and that's before a no deal brexit.

Current price of 58k could easily jump 10k, and as much of a fan boy I am theres no justifying that.

Looks like anything 2lt turbo is in for a hit now either ways

colm_mcm

Combined with the Nox charge (which got through uncontested) they’ve really made it difficult to import. The future is bleak.

L1011

Capra wrote: »

Relative to inflation that is a significant decrease on what they set it at back in 2008

I'm not sure what you think inflation rates are...

Inflation here has been neglible or negative for many years.

The CPI change from July 2008 to now is MINUS 0.5%

The €2000 top rate of tax then would be €1991 now if they went on inflation.

reubenreuben

colm_mcm wrote: »

Combined with the Nox charge (which got through uncontested) they’ve really made it difficult to import. The future is bleak.

Very bleak.
Its not like you could buy locally made cars like in france, germany or italy.

What is frustrating is that it would be possibly cheaper to import and run a 30 year old car although its not good for the environment.

L1011

reubenreuben wrote: »

Very bleak.
Its not like you could buy locally made cars like in france, germany or italy.

What is frustrating is that it would be possibly cheaper to import and run a 30 year old car although its not good for the environment.

The same charges would apply to locally built cars.

The UK import thing is just due to their cheaper (and sometimes higher spec) second hand cars; very few other countries in Europe have quite the same import culture.

reubenreuben

L1011 wrote: »

The same charges would apply to locally built cars.

The UK import thing is just due to their cheaper (and sometimes higher spec) second hand cars; very few other countries in Europe have quite the same import culture.

At least if they were locally made, you would have a fair idea what the actual selling cost is instead of some made up figure by revenue

mloc123

I have missed most details on this, will tax costs from the car I own now change or is it just on newly imported and registered cars?

almostover

One thing that has always puzzled me on our motor taxation approach.....why don't we incentivise keeping older cars on the road more. Sure they emit more fumes from their exhausts but surely the carbon invested in their manufacture goes to waste by scrapping them. Plus all the carbon sunk into the manufacture of new cars. Now that we have an NCT, shouldn't we be incentivising people to get every last km out of their existing cars?

reubenreuben

mloc123 wrote: »

I have missed most details on this, will tax costs from the car I own now change or is it just on newly imported and registered cars?

pre 2008 no change
post 2008 some increased by about 10 euros upwards from above 140 CO2

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Are the government not aware of how many people make an actual living out of importing cars from the UK? They sure get their pound of flesh when they’re converted to Irish plates on top of this.

It’s just greed under a disguise of being “good for the planet”. We can’t all drive electric cars and if everyone did drive them the planet would be in a hell of a worse spot trying to produce all those batteries.

This is just yet another scam the government has pulled on us all.

reubenreuben

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Are the government not aware of how many people make an actual living out of importing cars from the UK? They sure get their pound of flesh when they’re converted to Irish plates on top of this.

It’s just greed under a disguise of being “good for the planet”. We can’t all drive electric cars and if everyone did drive them the planet would be in a hell of a worse spot trying to produce all those batteries.

This is just yet another scam the government has pulled on us all.

That's the greens for you.

TitianGerm

Herself was planning on ordering a new Sportline 1.5 petrol Karoq for January. I imagine the price of that will be after increasing now?

lawrencesummers

almostover wrote: »

One thing that has always puzzled me on our motor taxation approach.....why don't we incentivise keeping older cars on the road more. Sure they emit more fumes from their exhausts but surely the carbon invested in their manufacture goes to waste by scrapping them. Plus all the carbon sunk into the manufacture of new cars. Now that we have an NCT, shouldn't we be incentivising people to get every last km out of their existing cars?

Turnover of cars = jobs in dealerships, profits and finance

The motor industry has a very influential lobby.

reubenreuben

TitianGerm wrote: »

Herself was planning on ordering a new Sportline 1.5 petrol Karoq for January. I imagine the price of that will be after increasing now?

probably if c02 is fairly high

TitianGerm

reubenreuben wrote: »

probably if c02 is fairly high

I think the road tax at the moment is around €270?

NIMAN

Hunky Monster wrote: »

It’s just greed under a disguise of being “good for the planet”. We can’t all drive electric cars and if everyone did drive them the planet would be in a hell of a worse spot trying to produce all those batteries.

This is just yet another scam the government has pulled on us all.

Well there has to be a balance found, cos driving around in millions of cars burning diesel isn't the answer either.

Humans need to move away from vehicles that burn fossil fuels, simple as.
Are EVs the answer to that? Maybe, maybe not.

And scrapping a perfectly good car simply to put someone into an EV isn't right either.

Springy Turf

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Are the government not aware of how many people make an actual living out of importing cars from the UK? They sure get their pound of flesh when they’re converted to Irish plates on top of this.

It’s just greed under a disguise of being “good for the planet”. We can’t all drive electric cars and if everyone did drive them the planet would be in a hell of a worse spot trying to produce all those batteries.

This is just yet another scam the government has pulled on us all.

Greed for who exactly? The tax doesn't go into their pockets.

Unfortunately motor vehicles are as damaging to the environment, health and cities as they are useful. As a society we need to ween ourselves off car dependence.

For those living in places with no good public / active transport its a bad situation for sure. For the vast majority of the population, 1 household car should be enough. This is why all in all its fine by me to disincentivize driving, and disincentivize polluting vehicles.

youcancallmeal

TitianGerm wrote: »

Herself was planning on ordering a new Sportline 1.5 petrol Karoq for January. I imagine the price of that will be after increasing now?

I got a quote last week for a 1.2 petrol Peugeot 5008 for delivery early next year and by my calculation it isn't much more expensive after today's budget, only about €180 more. I could be wrong though, need to talk to the dealer again and get an updated quote. Motor tax on it has gone up from €200 to €280 though.

reubenreuben

TitianGerm wrote: »

I think the road tax at the moment is around €270?

Using the new calculation for road tax
Petrol: y = x(0.9227)+34.554

then it could be a new CO2 of 146. road tax is similar to now .
But vrt would increase to 21% from 18%

So buy now if you can

TitianGerm

reubenreuben wrote: »

Using the new calculation for road tax
Petrol: y = x(0.9227)+34.554

then it could be a new CO2 of 146. road tax is similar to now .
But vrt would increase to 21% from 18%

Road tax isn't the issue.

List price was €35,350 and I'm assuming €1,000 for delivery charges. So new cost will be €37,275 or thereabouts. That's back roughly where it was before the Vat reduction.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Springy Turf wrote: »

Greed for who exactly? The tax doesn't go into their pockets.

Unfortunately motor vehicles are as damaging to the environment, health and cities as they are useful. As a society we need to ween ourselves off car dependence.

For those living in places with no good public / active transport its a bad situation for sure. For the vast majority of the population, 1 household car should be enough. This is why all in all its fine by me to disincentivize driving, and disincentivize polluting vehicles.

Have you seen how they make lithium batteries?

Also I’d hazard a guess here that 10 year old
batteries aren’t worth a **** while a 10 year old ICE engine is. Just more stuff to add to throwaway society. If anything the tax on cars should decrease over time to encourage reusing them and not crushing them because of high tax. That just doesn’t make any sense from an environmental standpoint.

Kowerski

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Are the government not aware of how many people make an actual living out of importing cars from the UK? They sure get their pound of flesh when they’re converted to Irish plates on top of this.

It’s just greed under a disguise of being “good for the planet”. We can’t all drive electric cars and if everyone did drive them the planet would be in a hell of a worse spot trying to produce all those batteries.

This is just yet another scam the government has pulled on us all.

Not sure how to respond, so many things wrong in that post

Frankie19

Just read an article on it on breakingnews.ie. it stated that a VW Tiguan will go up by approx 3000 euro. What affect will this have on pcp's I wonder. Can't see many being happy that to trade in and get the same car again will cost another 3k which will have eaten into their equity/deposit on a new car big time.

I'm due to renew in April 2022 on a Disco Sport. Prob just hold onto it now and pay off the balloon payment.

Kowerski

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Have you seen how they make lithium batteries?

No, could you show us?

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Also I’d hazard a guess here that 10 year old
batteries aren’t worth a **** while a 10 year old ICE engine is. Just more stuff to add to throwaway society. If anything the tax on cars should decrease over time to encourage reusing them and not crushing them because of high tax. That just doesn’t make any sense from an environmental standpoint.

I think you will find batteries from cars are hot property, 10 years and older.

Springy Turf

Frankie19 wrote: »

Just read an article on it on breakingnews.ie. it stated that a VW Tiguan will go up by approx 3000 euro. What affect will this have on pcp's I wonder. Can't see many being happy that to trade in and get the same car again will cost another 3k which will have eaten into their equity/deposit on a new car big time.

I'm due to renew in April 2022 on a Disco Sport. Prob just hold onto it now and pay off the balloon payment.

Mission accomplished for this tax I'd say!

Springy Turf

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Have you seen how they make lithium batteries?

Also I’d hazard a guess here that 10 year old
batteries aren’t worth a **** while a 10 year old ICE engine is. Just more stuff to add to throwaway society. If anything the tax on cars should decrease over time to encourage reusing them and not crushing them because of high tax. That just doesn’t make any sense from an environmental standpoint.

Greed for who?

Honestly, I agree with you on electric cars to an extent - as overall there just needs to be far less cars on the road. But private motor vehicles are very necessary for a lot of people. I'd rather have zero emissions vehicles around the place then fuel burners pumping out carcinogens.

Kowerski

Frankie19 wrote: »

Just read an article on it on breakingnews.ie. it stated that a VW Tiguan will go up by approx 3000 euro. What affect will this have on pcp's I wonder. Can't see many being happy that to trade in and get the same car again will cost another 3k which will have eaten into their equity/deposit on a new car big time.

I'm due to renew in April 2022 on a Disco Sport. Prob just hold onto it now and pay off the balloon payment.

I talked to VW last year and they already had plans to move to fleet like the Tiguan onto more green platform. This included hybrid/PHEV etc. Even going back 12 months now the VW Seller could tell me diesel was no longer the automatic choice and they couldnt wait to get the Hybrid in the door.

In reality if you are doing the mileage for a diesel then it will still make sense to buy a diesel, if not then you need to look at alternative fuels. It is hardly a huge inconvience for people. Just change the pump at station or put an alternative fuel into the car.

Frankie19

Yep definitely Springy Turf.

Frankie19

The problem is though the current cost of fully electric or Hybrid/PHEV is way too high and diesel were cheaper. From next year they will probably be aligned but it means all prices go up as the diesels now match them.

Larbre34

80sDiesel wrote: »

And I am guessing that it can’t be driven back either on a ferry as it will have to go straight to customs. And you will need to pay an agent to access the car when all duties paid.

My mate is a specialist importer here, he's sorting that aspect.

Kowerski

Frankie19 wrote: »

The problem is though the current cost of fully electric or Hybrid/PHEV is way too high and diesel were cheaper. From next year they will probably be aligned but it means all prices go up as the diesels now match them.

Are you saying new? second hand? imports?


It's a very broad statement.

Frankie19

I was talking about pcp trade ins....so new

Banana Republic 1

bazz26 wrote: »

Oh I know, it wasn't aimed at you.

I was more making my point to those who were in favor of increasing it because it's currently low. Are they equally in favor of reducing it when the market price goes up again based on the logic they are using? We all know the tax won't be reduced on it when the market price is high.

There’s no logic there.

This is it

Any quick way of figuring out new tax per year? 2008 C220 CDI, on CO2 current @€;750 per annum

Heres Johnny

This is it wrote: »

Any quick way of figuring out new tax per year? 2008 C220 CDI, on CO2 current @€;750 per annum

Get the emissions figure from your tax disc and tell us, there's a table earlier in the thread.

This is it

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Get the emissions figure from your tax disc and tell us, there's a table earlier in the thread.

173, thanks

Atlantic Dawn

This is it wrote: »

173, thanks

€790, it's €750 now.

This is it

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Looks like my 3L A6 (171-190) is going from €750 to €790.

€40 isn't too bad. I'll live with that.

Was looking for the table and found this, presume my 173 means I'm up to €790. As if it wasn't expensive enough. Anyway, what can ya do!

Edit: thanks Atlantic Dawn, appreciated.

Only bought 12 months in July so not too bad

This is it

171-190 is only €600 post 1/1/21!? FFS, why would it be different?

*He asks with very little understanding of emissions*

bazz26

Because the way the emissions are measured for the car in the EU are different - pre 2021 > NEDC calculated, Jan 2021 onwards > WLTD calculated.

PaulRyan97

This is it wrote: »

171-190 is only €600 post 1/1/21!? FFS, why would it be different?

*He asks with very little understanding of emissions*

171-190g NEDC would translate to probably somewhere in the 190-220 range under the WLTP. The newer 17-190 range would be the equivalent of an NEDC ~150-170.

Atlantic Dawn

This is it wrote: »

171-190 is only €600 post 1/1/21!? FFS, why would it be different?

*He asks with very little understanding of emissions*

The measuring is much stricter to reflect real world driving so a car under the current measured system might be 25% higher under WLPT so they have reduced the motor tax rate on higher emitting cars post 01/01/21 to reflect this.

Casati

Vicxas wrote: »

Can someone do the math on a v90 for me.


Co2 is 146 g/km and thats band 16 apparently, and im adding 12.858 which brings it up to 159, which is band 18.

Did i do that right?

Volvo have been calculating WLTP for about two years so if the actual WLTP is on the V5 (Im presuming your importing from UK) then you can go off the actual WLTP and you don't have to use the revenue calculation - I think

Looking now the V90 D4 is 153 co2 - it was 127 co2 on the old system.

Im guessing your looking at the D5?

Xtrail14

Any change on commercial €333 tax? Apologies if discussed already.

This is it

Thanks everyone

jimmycrackcorm

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Have you seen how they make lithium batteries?

Also I’d hazard a guess here that 10 year old
batteries aren’t worth a **** while a 10 year old ICE engine is. Just more stuff to add to throwaway society. If anything the tax on cars should decrease over time to encourage reusing them and not crushing them because of high tax. That just doesn’t make any sense from an environmental standpoint.

Why do you think 10-year-old batteries aren't worth anything? The material is recoverable and reusable and that's before the point about them still being usable in ten years even if there is some mileage degradation.

A ten-year-old electric vehicle won't be burning up carbon like an ICE, and both will have long gone past the manufacturing cycle.

Leonard Hofstadter

colm_mcm wrote: »

Combined with the Nox charge (which got through uncontested) they’ve really made it difficult to import. The future is bleak.

The NOx charge has barely changed compared to the one introduced at the start of this year I thought? The top threshold kicks in a bit earlier but it's only going to mean €200 more at most when I did my back of an envelope calculation earlier this evening.

Leonard Hofstadter

80sDiesel wrote: »

Motor tax on existing cars stays the same.

From ‘21 all new cars and imported cars fall under the new tax regime.

Thus we have 3 tax regimes.

Pre 2008

Post 2008 up to pre ‘21 already registered in Ireland prior to ‘21.

01/21 and cars imported after that date.

That’s how I read it.

Surely cars imported after January will be on the same tax system as they would be if they were registered new in the first place? That's certianly the way it's been since we changed to CO2, pre-08 cars are charged on engine size even though VRT is done on CO2.

I would have thought that while VRT will be adjusted for the 'level playing field' on used imports, the tax will still be done the same as if the car had been registered new here, in other words a car between 08 and 20 will use the NEDC values and scale,

If the car tax rates for cars between 2008 and this year, then that's utterly ridiculous, and anything but a 'level playing field', you'd have two identical cars on different tax rates, all because of when they were imported.

Edit: The budget document from the Department of Finance states the following: "Cars first registered in the State up to end 2020, or cars registering from January 2021 which only have a NEDC figure, will remain in the current motor tax table, which is adjusted slightly to reflect climate action priorities." So imports on cars first registered between 2008 and 2020 will still be taxed on the NEDC table unless there is a WLTP figure available.