Budget 2021

Leonard Hofstadter

5500 wrote: »

The changes may well kill off a lot of hot hatches. Just as an example new Honda Civic Type R moves up from 177kg co2 to 193kg with Wltp

Its current VRT band is 30%, but new band will be 37%, so 7% increase in VRT may well add a couple of grand onto the price, and that's before a no deal brexit.

Current price of 58k could easily jump 10k, and as much of a fan boy I am theres no justifying that.

Looks like anything 2lt turbo is in for a hit now either ways

This is by far the worst aspect of the new changes.

You will now be paying less VRT and car tax if you buy a big luxury saloon or SUV with a big petrol engine so long as it's a plug in (the WLTP seems to be resulting in even lower CO2 values for such vehicles than the NEDC oddly enough), but a small light car with an interesting petrol engine is going to be absolutely clobbered in VRT and car tax.

Better for the environment my arse it is:rolleyes:.

At least the VRT relief for EV fridge freezers are gone, fridge freezers and PHEVs with a CO2 rating of below 50 g/km on WLTP will now be identical for tax and VRT - so absolutely no reason to buy one over an EV, which will allow electric and cost-free motoring for short distance driving, but the sheer convenience and character of a combustion engine when you need to go further.

Vicxas

Casati wrote: »

Volvo have been calculating WLTP for about two years so if the actual WLTP is on the V5 (Im presuming your importing from UK) then you can go off the actual WLTP and you don't have to use the revenue calculation - I think

Looking now the V90 D4 is 153 co2 - it was 127 co2 on the old system.

Im guessing your looking at the D5?

Yeah the D5 R-design.

td2008

So an M4 would have 790 tax if imported next year then? Showing as 194 co2 on revenue

L1011

Kasey_Don wrote: »

Look at RTE posting this study showing that tyre pollution is 1000 times worse than engine pollution.

The sums in that study don't even vaguely add up - if you're losing 5.8g a kilometre that means that over, say, 15,000km you've emitted 87kg of tyre particulates.

87kg is more than a normal set of 4 tyres weighs - much more for a normal 14-16" wheel. So effectively your tyres have apparently lost more than they ever weighed!

Later on in the article they add in brake dust to the claim, however a full set of brake pads for a car is about 400g so there's not much there to add.

Micky 32

Would this be correct? My 2017 car is 143 co2. Current road tax is 390 euro. So mine is only going to go up a tenner?

Atlantic Dawn

Micky 32 wrote: »

Would this be correct? My 2017 car is 143 co2. Current road tax is 390 euro. So mine is only going to go up a tenner?

Yes.

bladespin

Still missed a trick not allowing VAT to be claimed back on petrol, there's a whole sector where diesel is the only choice.

Marcusm

L1011 wrote: »

The sums in that study don't even vaguely add up - if you're losing 5.8g a kilometre that means that over, say, 15,000km you've emitted 87kg of tyre particulates.

87kg is more than a normal set of 4 tyres weighs - much more for a normal 14-16" wheel. So effectively your tyres have apparently lost more than they ever weighed!

Later on in the article they add in brake dust to the claim, however a full set of brake pads for a car is about 400g so there's not much there to add.

I’m going to guess that if there is any validity to this study that it includes all particulate matter including that discharged from the road itself. Otherwise, it’s just entirely flawed.

Marcusm

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Surely cars imported after January will be on the same tax system as they would be if they were registered new in the first place? That's certianly the way it's been since we changed to CO2, pre-08 cars are charged on engine size even though VRT is done on CO2.

I would have thought that while VRT will be adjusted for the 'level playing field' on used imports, the tax will still be done the same as if the car had been registered new here, in other words a car between 08 and 20 will use the NEDC values and scale,

If the car tax rates for cars between 2008 and this year, then that's utterly ridiculous, and anything but a 'level playing field', you'd have two identical cars on different tax rates, all because of when they were imported.

Edit: The budget document from the Department of Finance states the following: "Cars first registered in the State up to end 2020, or cars registering from January 2021 which only have a NEDC figure, will remain in the current motor tax table, which is adjusted slightly to reflect climate action priorities." So imports on cars first registered between 2008 and 2020 will still be taxed on the NEDC table unless there is a WLTP figure available.

Anything from 1 September 2017 onwards has to have a WLTP emissions calculation. Some marques might have rested/submitted earlier.

KCross

bladespin wrote: »

Still missed a trick not allowing VAT to be claimed back on petrol, there's a whole sector where diesel is the only choice.

There must be some reason why they are not allowing that. Anyone care to offer reasons?

If they allow petrol VAT to be reclaimed does it open it up to abuse of some kind?

L1011

Marcusm wrote: »

I’m going to guess that if there is any validity to this study that it includes all particulate matter including that discharged from the road itself. Otherwise, it’s just entirely flawed.

My suspicion is someone made an order of magnitude error along the way and never noticed. Roads don't wear down THAT fast either.

KCross wrote: »

There must be some reason why they are not allowing that. Anyone care to offer reasons?

If they allow petrol VAT to be reclaimed does it open it up to abuse of some kind?

Its from a very antiquated idea that petrol cars are luxury / consumer items compared to diesel, as far as I know.

ELM327

I'd say it harks back to a time when road cars were petrol and commercials were diesel.

Casati

Vicxas wrote: »

Yeah the D5 R-design.

That model would have been tested with WLTP protocol so I think it should be on the V5. Google isn't helping me find it now - probably because its been replaced by the B5

Vicxas

Casati wrote: »

That model would have been tested with WLTP protocol so I think it should be on the V5. Google isn't helping me find it now - probably because its been replaced by the B5

So the D5 should already be using the WLTP system on the likes of Autotrader?

R.O.R

MY 17.5 & 18.5 price lists for the V90, both had 129g of Co2 for the D5 AWD R-Design. That's NEDC figures - no WLTP figures on those product guides, and the one I have after MY 18.5 doesn't have the D5 listed.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Think it adds 7 cents a litre.

Might have been a bit off with that.
Place I get my diesel only seems to be gone up 1c per litre.

bladespin

colm_mcm wrote: »

Might have been a bit off with that.
Place I get my diesel only seems to be gone up 1c per litre.

Maybe not a million miles off, they said something like €1.50 per tank, though what's a tank lol.

frozenfrozen

weird they didn't mention anything about reduced emissions since so many people were doing reduced mileage this year.

Wouldn't forcing more people to not commute do more than getting everyone into a slightly greener car every 3 years.

Those who have to drive for work can be left off with the same rates that are in other countries where you can own something nice if you can afford it. Instead of owning something nice as a tax dodge in a massively paid job

Larbre34

Seems to be one to two cents widely. Any dent in oil prices will absorb that quick enough. Although if Biden wins in the US in a few weeks, oil will probably rise, anticipating demand due to a more open global trade policy and stimulus measures.

Kowerski

KCross wrote: »

There must be some reason why they are not allowing that. Anyone care to offer reasons?

If they allow petrol VAT to be reclaimed does it open it up to abuse of some kind?

The VAT off diesel is to allow for the very heavy mileage users/companies to gain the benefit. Really if you are thinking about a company car and do low mileage so a petrol would suit then why not move to electric? then you have 0% VRT

bladespin

KCross wrote: »

There must be some reason why they are not allowing that. Anyone care to offer reasons?

If they allow petrol VAT to be reclaimed does it open it up to abuse of some kind?

No idea, I'm sure the diesel vat is abused regularly too, seems crazy given the 'theme' covering 50k km each year, I'd be in a Hybrid only for that.

raher1

I own a 2006 car 1.4 what does that mean?

bazz26 wrote: »

Just announced:

Minister Donohoe says VRT reliefs for Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles and hybrids will be allowed to expire and relief for Battery Electric Vehicles to be tapered.

The Nitrogen Oxide surcharge bands are being adjusted so that higher NOx emitting vehicles will pay more.

On Motor Tax, rates will remain unchanged for all cars in the engine sized regime and all but the most pollutant cars in the post-2008 regime.

A third Motor Tax table for cars registered from 1 January 2021 is being opened to take account of the introduction of the WLTP emissions test.

So there will be a 3 tier motor tax system now instead of 2!

frozenfrozen

raher1 wrote: »

I own a 2006 car 1.4 what does that mean?

you will keep paying your current motor tax rate as it is on the pre 2008 CC system

Atlantic Dawn

Larbre34 wrote: »

Seems to be one to two cents widely. Any dent in oil prices will absorb that quick enough. Although if Biden wins in the US in a few weeks, oil will probably rise, anticipating demand due to a more open global trade policy and stimulus measures.

Yes for the sake of cheap motoring and stability in the world I hope Trump gets back in.

Kowerski

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Yes for the sake of cheap motoring and stability in the world I hope Trump gets back in.

Trump is liable to start a war and pusgh the oil price up again....so I don't think that is really a good outcome

Springy Turf

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Yes for the sake of cheap motoring and stability in the world I hope Trump gets back in.

You want Donald Trump for stability... come on now.

borderfox11

Hi - for an emissions value of 117g/km is there much of a change now on second hand import VRT after this budget? I'm not sure on the NOx value but car would be EURO6 ULEZ compliant
thanks

lawrencesummers

Kowerski wrote: »

Trump is liable to start a war and pusgh the oil price up again....so I don't think that is really a good outcome

Trump doesn’t control oil prices, he has just Been in charge while the US fraked the life out of his country and made temporary cheap oil by being the biggest manufacturer of it for a short period. It’s always going to change.

freshpopcorn

I’m a bit lost I’ve a 2010 316d 2.0. (Not the best in the World)
Any idea on how much it will go up?

Atlantic Dawn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I’m a bit lost I’ve a 2010 316d 2.0. (Not the best in the World)
Any idea on how much it will go up?

If it's CO2 figure is below 141 nothing, this will be displayed on the tax disc.

The figure will be just below the reg...

Idbatterim

I see they let the vast majoroty paying the pittance motor tax rates, to keep on paying a pittance ... should have hiked all rates minimum e20 for the 2008- end of 2020 imo...

freshpopcorn

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If it's CO2 figure is below 141 nothing, this will be displayed on the tax disc.

The figure will be just below the reg...

Cheers for that!
It says 118 from what I can see!

pscully365

Hi, earlier in the thread there was mention of needing to contact the 'Ministry of Land' in Japan to get confirmation of Co2 and NOx emissions when importing from Japan. It's also stated on the revenue.ie website.....needed for the VRT. Does anyone actually know HOW to contact the Ministry ? Is there a website, email etc. ? Any tips welcome. Many thanks.

D_BEAR

https://www.mlit.go.jp/en/jidosha/index.html

reubenreuben

pscully365 wrote: »

Hi, earlier in the thread there was mention of needing to contact the 'Ministry of Land' in Japan to get confirmation of Co2 and NOx emissions when importing from Japan. It's also stated on the revenue.ie website.....needed for the VRT. Does anyone actually know HOW to contact the Ministry ? Is there a website, email etc. ? Any tips welcome. Many thanks.

Ireland revenue doesnt make it easy for it's residents. They are a pita.

Ryan and Co can shove their electric hybrids up their South Facing windowsills in my opinion

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009980#Comment_118009980

What do you mean?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010263#Comment_118010263

I mean he can shove his ridiculous policies up his arse

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118011308#Comment_118011308

What policies? What's wrong with them.

Their Climate Action policies and strategies. They are available on the Green Party website have a look at them.

What specifically have you an issue with?

Well their double standards for one. From their 2030 plan they state they aim to end the issuing of oil and gas exploration and extraction licences and stand firmly against the importation of fracked gas from other territories. Yet they have no issue closing down Peat stations in Ireland and importing peat from Belarus. Shower of D4 mafioso in suits is what they are

What does any of that have to do with motoring?

mikeecho

Budget 2021, was last year.

Budget 2022 was announced yesterday.

Perhaps a new thread is needed.