Who were the left wing fascists attacking peaceful protestors yesterday?

Mad_maxx

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Again, your one track crusade against the left is blinkering you. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend. You need to stand up to fascism, or risk falling to it, if not for it.

nah , ive no desire to partake in a phoney war , leave that to the posh kids with daddy issues

whisky_galore

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

No, that’s not the problem at all. You can’t just stand back and do nothing when it comes to fascism, out of fear of giving them more exposure. Democracy doesn’t have the luxury of being so passive. The first problem is that fascists have a platform in the first place. The second problem is that people are sticking their head in the sand when they see people standing up to them. Fascism isn’t going to spontaneously jump off a cliff. It has to be pushed.

The "fascist" party candidate garnered 0.2% last time, hardly a roaring success.
Comparisons to 1930s Germany are trite. Here they will only be attractive to a tiny assortment of headbangers and contrarians without a stake in the country. Both groups of these children shouldn't be on the streets in the current climate, the sooner they're all back playing video games and at their adult colouring books the better.

sabat

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Well, socialist. They don't want to nationalise private property or indeed all property as you claimed though. They want to bring in a national construction company and build housing on public (wasted) land. Now that's head in the clouds stuff as far as I'm concerned (happens with all political parties) and its, again, something I wouldn't bother comparing to fascism.

I posted this on another thread a few weeks ago. This summer they literally introduced a bill to hold a referendum to convert Ireland into a communist state.
How do you think they'll seize private property if people don't want to give it up? There's no ambiguity here:

"The State, accordingly, shall delimit the right to private property where it is necessary to ensure the common good and to vindicate the said right to housing for all residents of Ireland."

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2020-07-28/18/

landofthetree

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Again, your one track crusade against the left is blinkering you. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend. You need to stand up to fascism, or risk falling to it, if not for it.

No party in the Dail supports facism.


Parties in our parliament have supported the government behind this. One of them won the popular vote in the last general election.

https://www.dw.com/en/venezuelas-army-death-squads-kill-thousands-un/a-49477147

Deebles McBeebles

sabat wrote: »

I posted this on another thread a few weeks ago. This summer they literally introduced a bill to hold a referendum to convert Ireland into a communist state.
How do you think they'll seize private property if people don't want to give it up? There's no ambiguity here:

"The State, accordingly, shall delimit the right to private property where it is necessary to ensure the common good and to vindicate the said right to housing for all residents of Ireland."

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2020-07-28/18/

Well, there is ambiguity there but as I said, I don't have much time for them or their ideas. Its going off on a PBP tangent now, its totally off topic and only being spoken of because another poster compared the party to fascist organisations.

Gregor Samsa

Mad_maxx wrote: »

nah , ive no desire to partake in a phoney war , leave that to the posh kids with daddy issues

That’s exactly the attitude fascists are hoping for from those that don’t actively support them. Let’s then do their work in plain sight, slowly chipping away at democracy unhindered.

Deebles McBeebles

whisky_galore wrote: »

The "fascist" party candidate garnered 0.2% last time, hardly a roaring success.
Comparisons to 1930s Germany are trite. Here they will only be attractive to a tiny assortment of headbangers and contrarians without a stake in the country. Both groups of these children shouldn't be on the streets in the current climate, the sooner they're all back playing video games and at their adult colouring books the better.

Totally agree with that part. Lets just hope that 0.2% doesn't start increasing though, eh.

sabat

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Well, there is ambiguity there but as I said, I don't have much time for them or their ideas. Its going off on a PBP tangent now, its totally off topic and only being spoken of because another poster compared the party to fascist organisations.

Paul Murphy at least has strong ties to the masked antifa gangs who aim to stop any dissent against government policy. Do you not see where this could head?

Sardonicat

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

That’s exactly the attitude fascists are hoping for from those that don’t actively support them. Let’s then do their work in plain sight, slowly chipping away at democracy unhindered.

A tried and trusted method. ..

Mad_maxx

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

That’s exactly the attitude fascists are hoping for from those that don’t actively support them. Let’s then do their work in plain sight, slowly chipping away at democracy unhindered.

the left always believe the general public need to be babied , ive more faith in people not to be misled

dont be so afraid of the bogeyman , he isnt real , that is unless you earn a living exaggerating the bogeyman ?

Strumms

Extremism on any side of an argument be it left or right is just damaging, ignorance, fearful, hateful nonsense... beneficial to nobody.

Sardonicat

sabat wrote: »

Paul Murphy at least has strong ties to the masked antifa gangs who aim to stop any dissent against government policy. Do you not see where this could head?

Anti fascist gangs who aim to stop dissent against government policy? I recognise all of those words but somehow I can't make sense of them being in the same sentence.

Deebles McBeebles

sabat wrote: »

Paul Murphy at least has strong ties to the masked antifa gangs who aim to stop any dissent against government policy. Do you not see where this could head?

A police or nanny state? Yeah, thats head in the clouds stuff too. If we're not worrying about 0.2%, 2.6% is hardly worth bothering about either.

Gregor Samsa

whisky_galore wrote: »

The "fascist" party candidate garnered 0.2% last time, hardly a roaring success.
Comparisons to 1930s Germany are trite. Here they will only be attractive to a tiny assortment of headbangers and contrarians without a stake in the country. Both groups of these children shouldn't be on the streets in the current climate, the sooner they're all back playing video games and at their adult colouring books the better.

You’re not looking at the bigger picture. First up, fascism isn’t going to go away by itself, so those trite comments about then being children are incredibly naive.

Secondly, it’s not Justin Barrett and his ilk we have to worry about. It’s what comes next, and after that again. What builds upon the complacency that is being fermented by people turning a blind eye to the incompetent version of fascism we have floating around today. Every little chip that gets taken off democracy, every little inch that the fascists are given, makes it harder to fight when the real threat comes. Every raging forest fire starts with a puny spark. If you put those out, you’re never faced with battling an inferno.

sabat

Sardonicat wrote: »

Anti fascist gangs who aim to stop dissent against government policy? I recognise all of those words but somehow I can't make sense of them being in the same sentence.

Every single time antifa Ireland have come out to attack a rally in the last year or so, the protest they were attacking was against government policy ie: the freedom of speech laws, the LGBT agenda in schools and now covid19 restrictions. They have effectively been acting as a paramilitary street level intimidation gang on behalf of the government. Whatever about the crew outside the Dáil on Saturday, planning to attack the big gathering of 95% ordinary citizens at the Custom House was disgraceful.

landofthetree

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

You’re not looking at the bigger picture. First up, fascism isn’t going to go away by itself, so those trite comments about then being children are incredibly naive.

Secondly, it’s not Justin Barrett and his ilk we have to worry about. It’s what comes next, and after that again. What builds upon the complacency that is being fermented by people turning a blind eye to the incompetent version of fascism we have floating around today. Every little chip that gets taken off democracy, every little inch that the fascists are given, makes it harder to fight when the real threat comes. Every raging forest fire starts with a puny spark. If you put those out, you’re never faced with battling an inferno.

Where are the protests about Irelands major problem with anti-semitism?

Gregor Samsa

Strumms wrote: »

Extremism on any side of an argument be it left or right is just damaging, ignorance, fearful, hateful nonsense... beneficial to nobody.

It’s not extremism to oppose fascism. It’s normal. It should be centrists out there opposing fascism. The extreme left are only filling a vacuum caused by moderates not facing up to their responsibilities to recognise that ordinary democracy needs defending.

Sardonicat

sabat wrote: »

Every single time antifa Ireland have come out to attack a rally in the last year or so, the protest they were attacking was against government policy ie: the freedom of speech laws, the LGBT agenda in schools and now covid19 restrictions. They have effectively been acting as a paramilitary street level intimidation gang on behalf of the government. Whatever about the crew outside the Dáil on Saturday, planning to attack the big gathering of 95% ordinary citizens at the Custom House was disgraceful.

95% 'oridinary' citizens would not stand alongside or be associated with Barret.

whisky_galore

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

You’re not looking at the bigger picture. First up, fascism isn’t going to go away by itself, so those trite comments about then being children are incredibly naive.

Secondly, it’s not Justin Barrett and his ilk we have to worry about. It’s what comes next, and after that again. What builds upon the complacency that is being fermented by people turning a blind eye to the incompetent version of fascism we have floating around today. Every little chip that gets taken off democracy, every little inch that the fascists are given, makes it harder to fight when the real threat comes. Every raging forest fire starts with a puny spark. If you put those out, you’re never faced with battling an inferno.

I'd say you're some craic at parties.

landofthetree

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

It’s not extremism to oppose fascism. It’s normal. It should be centrists out there opposing fascism. The extreme left are only filling a vacuum caused by moderates not facing up to their responsibilities to recognise that ordinary democracy needs defending.

They have done a bad job stopping anti-semitism alright.

We dont even have laws on Holocaust denial.

Maybe Antifa could protest that.

Gregor Samsa

whisky_galore wrote: »

I'd say you're some craic at parties.

I’ll never understand the mentality of people who use that tired, unoriginal put down. Do they not understand context? Its a thread about fighting fascism. Do you expect me to be telling jokes? Why compare what I’m saying here to what I’d say at a party. It just makes no sense. If you don’t want to hear people discussing the topic, you’re free to ignore the thread and let the rest of us get on with it.

Sardonicat

Sardonicat wrote: »

95% 'oridinary' citizens would not stand alongside or be associated with Barret.

They wouldn't even piss on him if he was on fire.

hotmail.com

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

I’ll never understand the mentality of people who use that tired, unoriginal put down. Do they not understand context? Its a thread about fighting fascism. Do you expect me to be telling jokes?

What is your idea of fascism? There was about 30 people there that hardly anyone supports.

All nut jobs.

nullzero

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

No, that’s not the problem at all. You can’t just stand back and do nothing when it comes to fascism, out of fear of giving them more exposure. Democracy doesn’t have the luxury of being so passive. The first problem is that fascists have a platform in the first place. The second problem is that people are sticking their head in the sand when they see people standing up to them. Fascism isn’t going to spontaneously jump off a cliff. It has to be pushed.

No you're wrong.

The right wing groups in this country are a miniscule fringe. They only get into the press when Antifa turn up and start fighting with them.

We aren't talking about peaceful counter protests here, literally every event that is held by right wing groups is marked by violence instigated by Antifa. Antifa make the National Party and their supporters look reasonable, so bravo on that front.

Defending the actions of Antifa on the basis that Justin Barrett and his National Party are somehow going to generate a groundswell of support and possibly take the reigns of government at the next election is the stuff of pure fantasy.

When the National Party have a rally (typically attended by a handful of people) we can all ignore them and let them talk whatever nonsense they like(and they have the right to have stupid opinions in a Democratic society btw) but when equally stupid oafs in black bloc turn up throwing railings around and turning a peaceful gathering of one group of imbeciles into a pitched battle between two groups of imbeciles society loses.

Mad_maxx

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

You’re not looking at the bigger picture. First up, fascism isn’t going to go away by itself, so those trite comments about then being children are incredibly naive.

Secondly, it’s not Justin Barrett and his ilk we have to worry about. It’s what comes next, and after that again. What builds upon the complacency that is being fermented by people turning a blind eye to the incompetent version of fascism we have floating around today. Every little chip that gets taken off democracy, every little inch that the fascists are given, makes it harder to fight when the real threat comes. Every raging forest fire starts with a puny spark. If you put those out, you’re never faced with battling an inferno.

what evidence is there that fascism is a graver threat today than it was say thirty five years ago ?

the belief in its imminent arrival is near religous in its hysteria

sabat

Sardonicat wrote: »

95% 'oridinary' citizens would not stand alongside or be associated with Barret.

Yes I know, because he wasn't there.

Danzy

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

No, that’s not the problem at all. You can’t just stand back and do nothing when it comes to fascism, out of fear of giving them more exposure. Democracy doesn’t have the luxury of being so passive. The first problem is that fascists have a platform in the first place. The second problem is that people are sticking their head in the sand when they see people standing up to them. Fascism isn’t going to spontaneously jump off a cliff. It has to be pushed.

Let fascism be pushed off the cliff, but as long as you and your friends are tied to your fascist cousins as they hit the beach.

Hard to see the difference between ye.

Sardonicat

sabat wrote: »

Yes I know, because he wasn't there.

But his party was?

nullzero

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

It’s not extremism to oppose fascism. It’s normal. It should be centrists out there opposing fascism. The extreme left are only filling a vacuum caused by moderates not facing up to their responsibilities to recognise that ordinary democracy needs defending.

It is extremism to oppose fascism by instigating violence in the streets.

MFPM

Danzy wrote: »

Let fascism be pushed off the cliff, but as long as you and your friends are tied to your fascist cousins as they hit the beach.

Hard to see the difference between ye.

That would imply you're not looking hard enough.