FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

Floppybits

smurgen wrote: »

The snobbery off this is astounding.you should be ashamed.

He is just a troll. Gets off on winding people up. I suppose whatever gets you through the day.

Solutionking

Floppybits wrote: »

You have some neck going on about a magic money tree considering the way FG have behaved and that is not even talking about the money pit that is the most expensive hospital in the world. FG are as bad as any of the other parties in the Dail when it comes to budget, remember the 4 millon spin unit. FG have lost any reputation they may have had for being a financially responsible party and being a party of law and order.

Maybe I will say this slowly. I don't support FG. I hate Leo, he is a snake, said it multiple times.

I fully agree the childrens hospital is a disgrace and Leo etc lost all respect once they moved it from Blanchardstown.

Still the little rant hasn't given any view of how to find money for the student nurses, any ideas?

Solutionking

Floppybits wrote: »

He is just a troll. Gets off on winding people up. I suppose whatever gets you through the day.

https://extra.ie/2019/12/12/news/irish-news/gardai-warn-against-buying-scramblers-and-quad-bikes-for-christmas
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1023/1173551-quad-bike-scrambler/
Google it, every single year.

Floppybits

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A reasonable caring society in need of finding extra cash to share around would take it first from those who can afford it. TD's can afford it more than those in need of welfare.

Why are you so determined to hit those least able to pay in order to pay those most in need and deserving?

That is the FG way. The poorest always pay.

Floppybits

Solutionking wrote: »

Maybe I will say this slowly. I don't support FG. I hate Leo, he is a snake, said it multiple times.

I fully agree the childrens hospital is a disgrace and Leo etc lost all respect once they moved it from Blanchardstown.

Still the little rant hasn't given any view of how to find money for the student nurses, any ideas?

Yep they can start at the top by cutting their own salaries, what is they got 3 pay rises this year? The TD's wouldn't even miss it. Donnelly is claiming 1333 euro a week in expenses, so you can just imagine what the rest are claiming. Then they can cut down on the special advisors as well that will be another few quid saved there. If they can vote pay rises of 16,000 for the super junior ministers they can find the money to pay the student nurses. That is just for starters.

elefant

Solutionking wrote: »

This saying always comes to me when I hear someone say they are not SF. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

The student nurses got paid. Maybe you missed that bit. The numbers have gone from over 900 to less than 300. From a hospital point of view the crisis is over. I never said it might not return just it is over for now.

Also I have not reduced public expenditure to anything. I am saying if the HSE does have extra money it should be invested into the nurses who are underpaid.

I have no idea what the Junior minister have in this conversation, maybe you could explain.
I have given an option to pay for the student nurses, how do you think they should be paid? or you going to shake the magic money tree? you do know how a budget works?

So you insinuate someone is a SF supporter, and then use their denial of your claim to confirm to yourself that they are indeed SF supporters. You must be seeing nothing but ducks if that's your approach to life. In what way do I look, swim and quack like a Sinn Fein supporter?

And yes, you are absolutely reducing public expenditure to non-existent competing interests. It is not an either or situation of Qualified Nurses vs Trainee Nurses. Super Junior Minister salary increases also come from the magic money tree.

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

I am not hitting anyone mon amie. I am just aware a magic money tree is not available. So if everyone wants the student nurses to get paid then everyone digs deep. The Christmas bonus is not essential. People are still provided with social welfare. So use the budget for that to pay the nurses. Better to pay someone working and helping would you not think?

How do you know what TD's can or can't afford? sure look at Violet Anne who robbed a charity and can't afford to pay it back.

Or the TD in Dublin who had to get full expenses in the middle of a crisis when nobdoy could travel.

How do you know the Christmas bonus can be done without?

Floppybits

elefant wrote: »

So you insinuate someone is a SF supporter, and then use their denial of your claim to confirm to yourself that they are indeed SF supporters. You must be seeing nothing but ducks if that's your approach to life. In what way do I look, swim and quack like a Sinn Fein supporter?

And yes, you are absolutely reducing public expenditure to non-existent competing interests. It is not an either or situation of Qualified Nurses vs Trainee Nurses. Super Junior Minister salary increases also come from the magic money tree.

The thing is that anyone who is not with the government or may want to seek a fairer country are labelled SF supporters. It doesn't matter that you may or may not support SF this is what you have been labelled by the government supporters.

Those same supporters who have suddenly found their morals over a tweet made a couple of years ago but when it came to leaking confidential documents to pals or appointing crony's to the Supreme Court these were waved off as not really that important but a tweet from a few years ago now that is more important.

Wanderer78

Solutionking wrote: »

I shouldn't bite but I will. So if you give the Christmas money to the student nurses it won't be spent, and won't be good for the economy? Maybe you could explain that one please

Floppybits wrote: »

You have some neck going on about a magic money tree considering the way FG have behaved and that is not even talking about the money pit that is the most expensive hospital in the world. FG are as bad as any of the other parties in the Dail when it comes to budget, remember the 4 millon spin unit. FG have lost any reputation they may have had for being a financially responsible party and being a party of law and order.

Solutionking wrote: »

I am not hitting anyone mon amie. I am just aware a magic money tree is not available. So if everyone wants the student nurses to get paid then everyone digs deep. The Christmas bonus is not essential. People are still provided with social welfare. So use the budget for that to pay the nurses. Better to pay someone working and helping would you not think?

How do you know what TD's can or can't afford? sure look at Violet Anne who robbed a charity and can't afford to pay it back.

Or the TD in Dublin who had to get full expenses in the middle of a crisis when nobdoy could travel.

money should be given to both welfare recipients and nurses, we need to get over this idea that theres only a finite amount of money on this planet, theres not, money is created and destroyed every single day on this planet, in financial institutions, in both the public and private sectors, when loans are created and paid off, this is exactly how our monetary systems work, this is how they have always worked. without this process, our planet would simply be fcuked. we re heading into a period of deflation, the best way of dealing with this is to increase the money supply, i.e. taking on more debt, ideally in both the public and private sectors, but since theres currently a limit in the capacity in the private to do so, this should be taken on via public debt. it is best to put this new money to good use, by encouraging people to spend this new money, i.e. its no good in creating new money, and putting it into bank accounts, as resting money as no 'velocity', this new money needs to be spent, asap, in order to stimulate economic activities, saving businesses and jobs.

smurgen

Floppybits wrote: »

Yep they can start at the top by cutting their own salaries, what is they got 3 pay rises this year? The TD's wouldn't even miss it. Donnelly is claiming 1333 euro a week in expenses, so you can just imagine what the rest are claiming. Then they can cut down on the special advisors as well that will be another few quid saved there. If they can vote pay rises of 16,000 for the super junior ministers they can find the money to pay the student nurses. That is just for starters.

You can see the 1,333 being filed for automatically.im sure their accounts staff having it as priorities first thing in the month each month. Milk the system to the max. Don't care of optics.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A reasonable caring society in need of finding extra cash to share around would take it first from those who can afford it. TD's can afford it more than those in need of welfare.

Why are you so determined to hit those least able to pay in order to pay those most in need and deserving?

At some stage, if you keep taking only from those that SF deem can afford it, there is nothing left to take from those who can.

What is forgotten by the magic money tree people is that someone has to work to earn the freebies for everyone else. You can only afford freebies to the extent that you have enough people to generate income. Ultimately, that is the problem with the retirement age. It is true that people deserve after a hard-working life to retire with a decent pension. However, that requires enough people working to pay for it.

Solutionking

Wanderer78 wrote: »

money should be given to both welfare recipients and nurses, we need to get over this idea that theres only a finite amount of money on this planet, theres not, money is created and destroyed every single day on this planet, in financial institutions, in both the public and private sectors, when loans are created and paid off, this is exactly how our monetary systems work, this is how they have always worked. without this process, our planet would simply be fcuked. we re heading into a period of deflation, the best way of dealing with this is to increase the money supply, i.e. taking on more debt, ideally in both the public and private sectors, but since theres currently a limit in the capacity in the private to do so, this should be taken on via public debt. it is best to put this new money to good use, by encouraging people to spend this new money, i.e. its no good in creating new money, and putting it into bank accounts, as resting money as no 'velocity', this new money needs to be spent, asap, in order to stimulate economic activities, saving businesses and jobs.

Ahh the magic money tree arrives. Give it an old shake

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

At some stage, if you keep taking only from those that SF deem can afford it, there is nothing left to take from those who can.

What is forgotten by the magic money tree people is that someone has to work to earn the freebies for everyone else. You can only afford freebies to the extent that you have enough people to generate income. Ultimately, that is the problem with the retirement age. It is true that people deserve after a hard-working life to retire with a decent pension. However, that requires enough people working to pay for it.

Sadly your rants ignore that we are not talking about 'freebies' we are talking about paying people. Human decency when you are trumpeting the PR slogans (you paid a myriad of PR experts for with good taxpayers money) like 'we are all in this together'.

Yet again, in desperation you try to turn this to your legendary bogeyman crusade.

Solutionking

It's funny people who can sit all day on boards never want to hit social welfare. The answer is always more tax and hit the people that are working for a living.
If the government actually implemented these solutions the entire place would crash in a week. Nobody would work because they would be taxed 70-80% to pay for all the social welfare and public services. But then again, don't worry sure we can just shake the magic money tree.
Even someone with basic primary school maths can work this out but it seems very confusing on here

mikep

A lot of these discussions remind me of something I heard before along the lines of:
Socialism works fine until someone elses money runs out.

Sorry if I screwed up the actual phrase but you get my drift..

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sadly your rants ignore that we are not talking about 'freebies' we are talking about paying people. Human decency when you are trumpeting the PR slogans (you paid a myriad of PR experts for with good taxpayers money) like 'we are all in this together'.

Yet again, in desperation you try to turn this to your legendary bogeyman crusade.

It wasn't a rant. The student nurses are there as part of their work placement for studies, just like student teachers in schools. There is a benefit to them already.

The PR slogan is "pay the nurses" which conveniently forgets that they are students, not nurses, and that the wielding of the slogan is hypocritical.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It wasn't a rant. The student nurses are there as part of their work placement for studies, just like student teachers in schools. There is a benefit to them already.

The PR slogan is "pay the nurses" which conveniently forgets that they are students, not nurses, and that the wielding of the slogan is hypocritical.

The slogan is 'we are all in this together'. Again and again it is clear we are not.

That's the government's slogan by the way. If you don't mean it, don't say it.

Ireland2020

We are all in this together unless your poor, out of a job or a student

Suckit

Wow, this is really picking up on social media, and I have zero accounts in any of them, so for me to notice it should probably be a gauge of sorts. I got sent some videos this morning of the humorous nature, but only have had the chance to look at them now, all of them bar the tiktok video have comments underneath them and links about paying the student nurses, or pictures with things like
give ourselves pay rise √
etc.
With 'pay student nurses X'

One even claiming with a link, to have received an email response from a FG TD saying
'I regret that a false impression was created by members of the opposition, which I equally regret has become normalised.' Re student/intern nurses & midwives being paid.
They (SM owner) follow up with
"However it was Simon Harris (also FG) who promised we would paid (sic). Not opposition..."

It will be interesting to see how long they can allow this to roll on for.

Others also seem to be aware of Josepha Madigan's timing to post a picture of herself voting... :pac:

Wanderer78

Solutionking wrote: »

Ahh the magic money tree arrives. Give it an old shake

yes money is magically created in financial institutions in both the public and private sectors, when loans are created, the majority of the money supply coming from private sector banks in the form of credit, hence the term 'credit crisis' but since theres limited capacity to expand the money supply in the private sector at the moment, due to the significant drop in demand for credit, its now critical that this is done in the public sector. and since central banks can never run out of money, and we re heading into a period of deflation, its critical that this is done right now, and even more critical that this money is spent asap, in order to create velocity in the money supply, in order to save businesses and jobs.

mikep wrote: »

A lot of these discussions remind me of something I heard before along the lines of:
Socialism works fine until someone elses money runs out.

Sorry if I screwed up the actual phrase but you get my drift..

....again, central banks can never run out of money, ever!

McMurphy

Coalition of Confusion and Chaos U-turn number 144 due some day next week yeah?

Ireland2020

McMurphy wrote: »

Coalition of Confusion and Chaos U-turn number 144 due some day next week yeah?

The usual lads will be on now to say no, never and when the u turn happens say the Govt listened to the people and acted accordingly

Ireland2020

The Govt has agreed to pay the Student Nurses once they run around in a circle after a hare

Floppybits

Ireland2020 wrote: »

The usual lads will be on now to say no, never and when the u turn happens say the Govt listened to the people and acted accordingly

Its already in place, Varadkar said they were going to review the situation with the student nurses in the Dail yesterday so you know this will mean they will come out and say yeah we will pay the student nurses and give some guff about it.

As Gavin Reilly said the other night on twitter when the opposition put a motion before the Dail such as the one the other night the Government usually submit a counter motion that has more favorable wording for them and this is what they vote on. So it gives the TD's that voted for it that wiggle room to get out of any hard questions they would be asked on it.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

It wasn't a rant. The student nurses are there as part of their work placement for studies, just like student teachers in schools. There is a benefit to them already.

The PR slogan is "pay the nurses" which conveniently forgets that they are students, not nurses, and that the wielding of the slogan is hypocritical.

Student nurses work in other jobs to survive. Because of the Covid pandemic, which is still happening by the way, they are not allowed work for fear of cross infection. Therefore thinking they should be paid is fair don't you think?

They are student nurses who worked night shifts during the first wave. They are still dealing with Covid. Remember Ireland's call? We are all in this together? How about sponsor a nurse? Every politician from all parties subsidise a student nurse risking their own health for others? Or just pay them ffs.
How does it feel for government to be constantly against working people I wonder while sorting themselves out with crony journo advisors and social media advisors? Disgusting.

Floppybits

Bowie wrote: »

Student nurses work in other jobs to survive. Because of the Covid pandemic, which is still happening by the way, they are not allowed work for fear of cross infection. Therefore thinking they should be paid is fair don't you think?

They are student nurses who worked night shifts during the first wave. They are still dealing with Covid. Remember Ireland's call? We are all in this together? How about sponsor a nurse? Every politician from all parties subsidise a student nurse risking their own health for others? Or just pay them ffs.
How does it feel for government to be constantly against working people I wonder while sorting themselves out with crony journo advisors and social media advisors? Disgusting.

What I find hard to understand is why anyone would defend the government stance on this? Anybody with any sort of principals or morals would not be able to support the government stance on this.

Bowie

Bowie wrote: »

Student nurses work in other jobs to survive. Because of the Covid pandemic, which is still happening by the way, they are not allowed work for fear of cross infection. Therefore thinking they should be paid is fair don't you think?

They are student nurses who worked night shifts during the first wave. They are still dealing with Covid. Remember Ireland's call? We are all in this together? How about sponsor a nurse? Every politician from all parties subsidise a student nurse risking their own health for others? Or just pay them ffs.
How does it feel for government to be constantly against working people I wonder while sorting themselves out with crony journo advisors and social media advisors? Disgusting.

How about people stop moaning about having to do the work or training they signed up for?

McMurphy

Deleted User wrote: »

How about people stop moaning about having to do the work or training they signed up for?

Dara Murphy excluded I assume?

Solutionking

Bowie wrote: »

Student nurses work in other jobs to survive. Because of the Covid pandemic, which is still happening by the way, they are not allowed work for fear of cross infection. Therefore thinking they should be paid is fair don't you think?

They are student nurses who worked night shifts during the first wave. They are still dealing with Covid. Remember Ireland's call? We are all in this together? How about sponsor a nurse? Every politician from all parties subsidise a student nurse risking their own health for others? Or just pay them ffs.
How does it feel for government to be constantly against working people I wonder while sorting themselves out with crony journo advisors and social media advisors? Disgusting.

How about everyone at home sitting doing nothing sponsor a nurse with the social welfare christmas bonus?

Dayor Knight

Getting students to work for free in any context is simply exploitation. Getting student nurses to work for no pay in the middle of a pandemic is beyond shameful. Waffling about next September is pathetic. Pay student nurses for their work right now. It's shameful, deal with right it now.