FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

FrancieBrady

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Makes your desire to defend the govt at each and every turn even more inexplicable.

No doubt we'll get to hear the list of the 'chosen people' if you keep probing.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The next episode of chaos hoving into to view. The Greens being trussed up like chickens on a spit.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1338426588073955329

Likely the vote will be deferred now I see as 2 prominent greens won't vote with it they say.
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1214/1184327-hourigan-government/
A split apparently in the Greens over it, can they take much more I wonder.
This has to be ratified by every European Parliament or it is toast.

Billcarson

Let the greens tear themselves apart, that's what they get for going into gov with fg and ff.
I thought Eamon Ryan was against ceta?

ExMachina1000

The bould Eamonn and his greens alongside others calling Ceta a "rotten deal"

He even gave a few words about how bad it is

https://greennews.ie/opposition-politicians-call-for-dail-to-reject-rotten-ceta/

Eamonn:

“The way it was conducted, the way it was negotiated, the way that it was really centred around lobbying by big corporate interests rather than the public interest is wrong,” he added. “We need to negotiate trade and global cooperation in a better way and the EU should be standing for that.”

FrancieBrady

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The bould Eamonn and his greens alongside others calling Ceta a "rotten deal"

He even gave a few words about how bad it is

https://greennews.ie/opposition-politicians-call-for-dail-to-reject-rotten-ceta/

Eamonn:

“The way it was conducted, the way it was negotiated, the way that it was really centred around lobbying by big corporate interests rather than the public interest is wrong,” he added. “We need to negotiate trade and global cooperation in a better way and the EU should be standing for that.”

Senior hurling calling Eamonn...we'll see what he does.

markodaly

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I await your apology but accept that it more likely be a butbutbut blah blah about how I am wrong and you are right even though you think " we should look at reducing PS/CS wages across the board" which was my point in the first place.

If it is the former - apology accepted.
If it is the latter don't expect me to respond to you.

Jaysus, a bit OTT, no?

If 'we' agree why the aggression?

Anyway, I would NOT agree with your position that all PS/CS wages are capped at the average industrial wage. That is some sort of Cuban-esque type arrangement which would not work, for obvious reasons.

Can you imagine the difficulty it would be to attract nurses and doctors to work in the Irish Health Service? Do you think a medical consultant should earn at most €45,000 a year, or whatever the average industrial wage is?

If you implemented that, there would be a mass exodus of medical professionals to other countries. So, yes, a very very very bad idea.

Instead, I would look at it in the whole. Much of PS/CS is over paid and I would look to some mechanism, that would remove the politics from it and get some way to pay people fairly, without the political interference from parties or unions.

What is the SD position on PS pay by the way? You are a vocal supporter of the party, do they share your 'vision' of enacting some sort of Soviet-era pay cap on Irish public/civil service workers?

markodaly

RandomViewer wrote: »

There should be some sort of oversight of TDs performance, a warning for those who aren't pulling their weight and if that doesn't work a suggestion that maybe this isn't the job for you

There is, its call and election and usually held every 4-5 years.

markodaly

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Likely the vote will be deferred now I see as 2 prominent greens won't vote with it they say.
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1214/1184327-hourigan-government/
A split apparently in the Greens over it, can they take much more I wonder.
This has to be ratified by every European Parliament or it is toast.

They will get it over the line.

See this is the thing many in the opposition hoping (or pretending) to be in government, don't realise, they are setting themselves up for a fall.

You can say what you want in opposition, but when you are in the hot seat and decisions like CETA comes your way, and let's not forget that its an EU treaty, not an Irish one, you will need a very VERY good reason not to vote for it.

We want the EU to be doing us favours with the Brexit negotiations, yet we think its acceptable that a minor party from a small EU country, scuppers the whole thing.... yeap, that will go down very well!! :pac:

So, the Greens are learning the hard way.... and the likes of SF, the SD's will learn that hard way, because the stuff they are shouting about now and being against will pop up on their 'To do' list when/if they are in government and they will have to make a choice one way or the other....

Remember, 75% of our legislation comes from the EU.

smurgen

markodaly wrote: »

They will get it over the line.

See this is the thing many in the opposition hoping (or pretending) to be in government, don't realise, they are setting themselves up for a fall.

You can say what you want in opposition, but when you are in the hot seat and decisions like CETA comes your way, and let's not forget that its an EU treaty, not an Irish one, you will need a very VERY good reason not to vote for it.

We want the EU to be doing us favours with the Brexit negotiations, yet we think its acceptable that a minor party from a small EU country, scuppers the whole thing.... yeap, that will go down very well!! :pac:

So, the Greens are learning the hard way.... and the likes of SF, the SD's will learn that hard way, because the stuff they are shouting about now and being against will pop up on their 'To do' list when/if they are in government and they will have to make a choice one way or the other....

Remember, 75% of our legislation comes from the EU.

Link? Sounds a little makey uppy.

markodaly

smurgen wrote: »

Link? Sounds a little makey uppy.

Link for what?

Suckit

smurgen wrote: »

Link? Sounds a little makey uppy.

markodaly wrote: »

Link for what?

I am guessing..

markodaly wrote: »

Remember, 75% of our legislation comes from the EU.

I am guessing something like this, but closer to your figure.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/eu-source-of-less-than-30-of-irish-laws-fg-1.769944

markodaly

Suckit wrote: »

I am guessing..


I am guessing something like this, but closer to your figure.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/eu-source-of-less-than-30-of-irish-laws-fg-1.769944

That was from 2009, before Lisbon and before the crash, with all the extra compacts.

Its a figure I have heard a few times last year when the Euro Elections were going on.

Suckit

markodaly wrote: »

That was from 2009, before Lisbon and before the crash, with all the extra compacts.

Its a figure I have heard a few times last year when the Euro Elections were going on.

I am just guessing that info is the link the poster is asking for.
It could be higher than 30% if including the avacado law or similar, but not so much when it comes to more important things.

Bishop of hope

For all the bad year so far, economically we have held our heads above water.
No mean achievement and solid news for govt.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1215/1184448-ibec/

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Look at that mark - you actually agree with me.

I await your apology but accept that it more likely be a butbutbut blah blah about how I am wrong and you are right even though you think " we should look at reducing PS/CS wages across the board" which was my point in the first place.

If it is the former - apology accepted.
If it is the latter don't expect me to respond to you.

markodaly wrote: »

Jaysus, a bit OTT, no?

If 'we' agree why the aggression?

Anyway, I would NOT agree with your position that all PS/CS wages are capped at the average industrial wage. That is some sort of Cuban-esque type arrangement which would not work, for obvious reasons.

Dammit, I should have put a bet on.

smurgen

Bishop of hope wrote: »

For all the bad year so far, economically we have held our heads above water.
No mean achievement and solid news for govt.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1215/1184448-ibec/

The government was a mere passenger here.nothing to do with them. But well done to the citizens.

Bubbaclaus

Bishop of hope wrote: »

For all the bad year so far, economically we have held our heads above water.
No mean achievement and solid news for govt.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1215/1184448-ibec/

The data this year has shown the Irish economy to be very resilient. I'm anticipating an exceptional second half of 2021, in terms of spending in the economy.

Nobotty

smurgen wrote: »

The government was a mere passenger here.nothing to do with them. But well done to the citizens.

Mostly citizens working for multinationals at that
A good reason to keep our 12.5% corporation tax

Floppybits

Nobotty wrote: »

Mostly citizens working for multinationals at that
A good reason to keep our 12.5% corporation tax

Is someone or party looking to get rid of it?

smurgen

Simon Harris can't but help speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

"The former health minister said it is “right” and “appropriate” that student nurses are paid for working during the pandemic and he would like to see “immediate action” next month following a review."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40190736.html

blanch152

Bishop of hope wrote: »

For all the bad year so far, economically we have held our heads above water.
No mean achievement and solid news for govt.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1215/1184448-ibec/

That is an incredible achievement for this country in the circumstances if it happens.

Managing the pandemic, balancing health and the economy, the two different governments have done well this year.

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

That is an incredible achievement for this country in the circumstances if it happens.

Managing the pandemic, balancing health and the economy, the two different governments have done well this year.

What does this prove? Unless tax increases are off the table very little I'm afraid.

Bubbaclaus

smurgen wrote: »

The government was a mere passenger here.nothing to do with them. But well done to the citizens.

If the economy was doing horribly I'm sure you would be of the same opinion

jmayo

smurgen wrote: »

Another fine mess unearthed this morning it seems. This reminds me of the leaving certificate fiasco traced back to the company being ran out of the house in Toronto.

"The HSE paid €14.1m to an Irish company for ventilators from China which were never used due to "issues with the quality".

In March, the HSE recruited an Irish-based events management company, Roqu Media International Limited.

It is unclear what background Roqu, a company with a track record in festival management in the Middle East, had in the procurement of medical products.

Roqu, owned by Westmeath native Mr Quirke and first incorporated in 2017, had no Irish trading history previous to the HSE deal per its 2018 accounts.

Mr Quirke, a 41-year-old former IDA executive who describes himself as the president and CEO of Roqu Group, is also the firm’s sole employee, while the company’s headquarters is based in an apartment complex in Dublin"

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40189284.html

A very interesting fellow.
I wonder if we have any proper journalists anymore that might investigate how this guy managed to get involved.
BTW the ventilators are shyte and you couldn't trust them.

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I don't get it - Covidien make 20+% of the world's ventilators here in Ireland. I believe Covidien are now owned by Medtronic who have a huge presence here. Why would the HSE be buying dodgy ventilators from China. This needs to be investigated. And I don't think our stock of ventilators was the problems - it was beds and suitably trained nurses. Both Leo and Harris were Health ministers, were they asleep at the wheel again??

Because Covidens output was going elsewhere.
Just because they are manufactured here doesn't mean we get first dibs on them.

And we needed ventilators.

At the time this happened there was worldwide shortage.
Hell in the UK the Health scretary was asking all companies to start making.
Just as stupid as our move in getting someone unknown with no medical devices background to source kit he knew fook all about from Gods knows where.
Then when someone who did know what they were talking about started testing them they found them substandard.

Meanwhile the clown above get more contracts and links with HSE.

Something smells.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Quite an entrepreneur this chap if you google him. How does one get into a position like that? He should write a book on it.

Exactly.
I think it is time to do a little digging.
There is always connections involved in this country.

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Nice deflection but you will find Covidien ventilators in all our hospitals. Supply was not an issue. Can you explain this other chancer buying dodgy ones from China?

Supply was a huge fooking issue.

FFS maybe when you know what you are talking about then start making pronoucements.

Covidens/Medtronic are US worldwide multinational despite the PO Box in Dublin that is used for tax purposes.

Demand was massive and you had bidding wars for kit.
US states were bidding against each other and then Trumps federal government was bidding against them and that was just from the states.

So all the output from Galway could be going around the world depending on orders and who got in first.

Just because they are manufactured here doesn't mean we get first dibs on them.

It is like how PPE, medical grade masks were coming into Ireland from elsewhere even though the home countries had massive demand for them.

And no those facts and salient truths don't explain why a chancer was given the task of sourcing kit.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

What does this prove? Unless tax increases are off the table very little I'm afraid.

Why should tax increases be off the table?

If we want better services, they have to be paid for in taxation. People are crying for student nurses to get paid, they are whinging about the PUP being phased out, it all has to be paid for, sooner or later, by taxation.

The government finances were put in such strong shape over the last half-decade that we are able to borrow uncontrollably for 18 months - after that, we have to increase taxation or cut spending.

James Brown

jmayo wrote: »

A very interesting fellow.
I wonder if we have any proper journalists anymore that might investigate how this guy managed to get involved.
BTW the ventilators are shyte and you couldn't trust them.



Because Covidens output was going elsewhere.
Just because they are manufactured here doesn't mean we get first dibs on them.

And we needed ventilators.

At the time this happened there was worldwide shortage.
Hell in the UK the Health scretary was asking all companies to start making.
Just as stupid as our move in getting someone unknown with no medical devices background to source kit he knew fook all about from Gods knows where.
Then when someone who did know what they were talking about started testing them they found them substandard.

Meanwhile the clown above get more contracts and links with HSE.

Something smells.



Exactly.
I think it is time to do a little digging.
There is always connections involved in this country.



Supply was a huge fooking issue.

FFS maybe when you know what you are talking about then start making pronoucements.

Covidens/Medtronic are US worldwide multinational despite the PO Box in Dublin that is used for tax purposes.

Demand was massive and you had bidding wars for kit.
US states were bidding against each other and then Trumps federal government was bidding against them and that was just from the states.

So all the output from Galway could be going around the world depending on orders and who got in first.

Just because they are manufactured here doesn't mean we get first dibs on them.

It is like how PPE, medical grade masks were coming into Ireland from elsewhere even though the home countries had massive demand for them.

And no those facts and salient truths don't explain why a chancer was given the task of sourcing kit.

This is the kind of thing FF/FG get into politics for. We've seen it time and again. They've had to get slicker but occasionally we hear about this kind of ridiculousness. Some people should be sacked and do time for organising this because somebody signed off on it.

A man who is his company's sole employee. A company that puts on gigs in the middle east, got the contract. Just let that sink in.

Nobotty

Floppybits wrote: »

Is someone or party looking to get rid of it?

People before profit yes
It would be a huge mistake IMO

blanch152

Nobotty wrote: »

People before profit yes
It would be a huge mistake IMO

The country would be shooting itself in the head if we got rid of the 12.5% rate.

Dub81

blanch152 wrote: »

The country would be shooting itself in the head if we got rid of the 12.5% rate.

I agree, I'm certainly no fan of FFG but the 12.5% rate absolutely has to be kept

RandomViewer

Dub81 wrote: »

I agree, I'm certainly no fan of FFG but the 12.5% rate absolutely has to be kept

After Brexit it might be harder to keep, expect France to demand it raised