FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

christy c

Bowie wrote: »

It is if your cronies are making a fortune off of it. They basically part created, certainly exacerbated a housing crisis and these companies and individuals are making a killing while it got worse and worse for nearly a decade. Smells like right wing to me.

I think we have different definitions of right wing. Right wing to me would involve telling anyone who can't afford to rent/buy to get lost, not that I am advocating that.

James Brown

christy c wrote: »

I think we have different definitions of right wing. Right wing to me would involve telling anyone who can't afford to rent/buy to get lost, not that I am advocating that.

Mine is more making money for private business with little regard to how it affects society. Case in point, housing.

christy c

Bowie wrote: »

Mine is more making money for private business with little regard to how it affects society. Case in point, housing.

Never heard of that defintion myself, especially when it involves taxing businesses and labour to fund that.

PearseCork92

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi01M35h9btAhVmTxUIHQN1BxkQFjAKegQIDRAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.gov.ie%2F47312%2F8b4cf9cab98f4e54ac73073d9bf26e8f.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0MwOd03NlZZoxCDBQ4g0cq

"Some data sources suggest that Ireland was an outlier in terms of household joblessness in the EU even before the recession. The EU Labour Force survey –the most comprehensive source of data on the labour market –indicates that the share of the adult population resident in jobless households in Ireland is not in fact abnormal by EU standards."

A quick and dirty search for the last year I could be bothered to find Irish household joblessness vs the EU average (2018), revealed Ireland was bang on the EU average for household joblessness.

Probably won't be enough evidence to not still send some in this thread into a Tory tailspin about the wretched lazy povs they want to put in a workhouse to learn the moral imperative of labour (even though they may be on a disability benefit having worked all their adult lives).

christy c

PearseCork92 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi01M35h9btAhVmTxUIHQN1BxkQFjAKegQIDRAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.gov.ie%2F47312%2F8b4cf9cab98f4e54ac73073d9bf26e8f.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0MwOd03NlZZoxCDBQ4g0cq

"Some data sources suggest that Ireland was an outlier in terms of household joblessness in the EU even before the recession. The EU Labour Force survey –the most comprehensive source of data on the labour market –indicates that the share of the adult population resident in jobless households in Ireland is not in fact abnormal by EU standards."

A quick and dirty search for the last year I could be bothered to find Irish joblessness vs the EU average (2018), revealed Ireland was bang on the EU average for household joblessness.

Probably won't be enough evidence to not still send some in this thread into a Tory tailspin about the wretched lazy povs they want to put in a workhouse to learn the moral imperative of labour (even though they may be on a disability benefit having worked all their adult lives).

Plenty of reasons for the huge number of jobless households, laziness being a small part i would guess. If you're ok with our situation, that's fine.

PearseCork92

christy c wrote: »

Plenty of reasons for the huge number of jobless households, laziness being a small part i would guess. If you're ok with our situation, that's fine.

I never made the case that jobless households are a good thing, merely that the contention that we have a unique problem of an indolent underclass pickpocketing peoples taxes isn't borne out by the data. We're a bang on average performer in the EU context.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. In recessionary times, the unemployed were the bogeyman. When we hit more or less full employment, the Varadkarites of this world get hung up on jobless households (which should not be conflated with straight up unemployment) despite Ireland not being an outlier in any particular sense. Quite literally, if unemployment disappeared, people of this ilk would see fit to invent them.

Indeed, the Collins Institute (a FG think tank, a contradiction in terms if you ask me) have a paper with dire warnings about Ireland's distinctive jobless household problem, despite leaving out the evidence presented above.

Goes to show how some think and are fond of presenting things in a certain light to stoke the flames of their ideological pecadillos.

James Brown

PearseCork92 wrote: »

I never made the case that jobless households are a good thing, merely that the contention that we have a unique problem of an indolent underclass pickpocketing peoples taxes isn't borne out by the data. We're a bang on average performer in the EU context.


Lies, damn lies and statistics. In recessionary times, the unemployed were the bogeyman. When we hit more or less full employment, the Varadkarites of this world get hung up on jobless households (which should not be conflated with straight up unemployment) despite Ireland not being an outlier in any particular sense. Quite literally, if unemployment disappeared, people of this ilk would see fit to invent them.

Yet he was okay with 'sure it's worse elsewhere' when confronted about homelessness.

christy c

PearseCork92 wrote: »

I never made the case that jobless households are a good thing, merely that the contention that we have a unique problem of an indolent underclass pickpocketing peoples taxes isn't borne out by the data. We're a bang on average performer in the EU context.


Lies, damn lies and statistics. In recessionary times, the unemployed were the bogeyman. When we hit more or less full employment, the Varadkarites of this world get hung up on jobless households (which should not be conflated with straight up unemployment) despite Ireland not being an outlier in any particular sense. Quite literally, if unemployment disappeared, people of this ilk would see fit to invent them.

Varadkar has overseen (quite large IIRC) increases in welfare under his watch, so if you are saying a Varadkarite is a right wing individual then you could do with a better example.

I dont believe we are unique in having a large number of jobless households (might read your link over the weekend as I thought we were higher), however when do we hear this brought up by any politician?

christy c

PearseCork92 wrote: »

Indeed, the Collins Institute (a FG think tank, a contradiction in terms if you ask me) have a paper with dire warnings about Ireland's distinctive jobless household problem, despite leaving out the evidence presented above.

Goes to show how some think and are fond of presenting things in a certain light to stoke the flames of their ideological pecadillos.

Missed this edit, I am far from blaming all of societies ills on jobless households. But it is an issue which I don't think you will deny.

Bowie raised a good point above, we are not massively out of kilter with the rest of the EU on homelessness, however we are bombarded with the "crisis" everywhere we look.

PearseCork92

christy c wrote: »

Varadkar has overseen (quite large IIRC) increases in welfare under his watch, so if you are saying a Varadkarite is a right wing individual then you could do with a better example.

I dont believe we are unique in having a large number of jobless households (might read your link over the weekend as I thought we were higher), however when do we hear this brought up by any politician?

A Varadkarite is one who knows full well that because of the structure of our economy and the proliferation of low quality jobs, precarious employment, and generally unfavorable conditions on the lower end of the income distribution, that without wealth transfers and initiatives from the Department of Social Protection, Ireland would drop dramatically on things like the gini coefficient, but they secretly hate that reality. Hence the "early riser" nonsense.

There's a house party at the upper end of the economy going on that many on the median income and below will never get a look in the window at.

christy c

PearseCork92 wrote: »

A Varadkarite is one who knows full well that because of the structure of our economy and the proliferation of low quality jobs, precarious employment, and generally unfavorable conditions on the lower end of the income distribution, that without wealth transfers and initiatives from the Department of Social Protection, Ireland would drop dramatically on things like the gini coefficient, but they secretly hate that reality. Hence the "early riser" nonsense.

There's a house party at the upper end of the economy going on that many on the median income and below will never get a look in the window at.

Fair enough, sounds like a bit of a silly name to me though.

James Brown

christy c wrote: »

Missed this edit, I am far from blaming all of societies ills on jobless households. But it is an issue which I don't think you will deny.

Bowie raised a good point above, we are not massively out of kilter with the rest of the EU on homelessness, however we are bombarded with the "crisis" everywhere we look.

My point was by all accepted standards we had a record breaking crisis and he was happy to shrug it off while exacerbating it with obviously flawed housing policy.

PearseCork92

christy c wrote: »

Missed this edit, I am far from blaming all of societies ills on jobless households. But it is an issue which I don't think you will deny.

Bowie raised a good point above, we are not massively out of kilter with the rest of the EU on homelessness, however we are bombarded with the "crisis" everywhere we look.

I'd argue that Ireland is in a much worse position on homelessness (and housing generally) than the government is prepared to acknowledge. A 2019 EU Commission report absolutely excoriated the methodology on homelessness statistics and just stopped short of saying that they are heavily massaged for political purposes.

The government and society at large seriously need to take their cod liver oil and accept that we're getting housing badly badly wrong. And not just for low-income and unemployed people. This problem extends into the middle classes. An unbelievable amount of people are a couple of paycheques from the streets.

christy c

PearseCork92 wrote: »

I'd argue that Ireland is in a much worse position on homelessness (and housing generally) than the government is prepared to acknowledge. A 2019 EU Commission report absolutely excoriated the methodology on homelessness statistics and just stopped short of saying that they are heavily massaged for political purposes.

Another for the reading list, although as we have seen with state aid rulings, the EU commission aren't immune from making complete tools of themselves.

smurgen

So the same one man band that lost us 14.1 million euro through PPE also won other contracts it seems?

https://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/2020/09/11/creator-of-the-world-first-digital-health-passport-will-help-fully-open-economy-again/

Suckit

smurgen wrote: »

So the same one man band that lost us 14.1 million euro through PPE also won other contracts it seems?

https://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/2020/09/11/creator-of-the-world-first-digital-health-passport-will-help-fully-open-economy-again/

No doubt built with his windfall. Any reason given for why there was no refund given in full for poor quality machines and contract not fulfilled, yet?

schmoo2k

Suckit wrote: »

No doubt built with his windfall. Any reason given for why there was no refund given in full for poor quality machines and contract not fulfilled, yet?

If the government had bought them online, they would have had a 2 week return window...

smurgen

schmoo2k wrote: »

If the government had bought them online, they would have had a 2 week return window...

I must say I'm confused. Why are the HSE in touch with the Chinese supplier? Surely the HSE should be in touch with the IDA chap to recover taxpayers funds.

grayzer75

smurgen wrote: »

I must say I'm confused. Why are the HSE in touch with the Chinese supplier? Surely the HSE should be in touch with the IDA chap to recover taxpayers funds.

Given the fact that one of the worlds biggest ventilator manufacturers is Medtronic in Galway and all the machined components for the ventilators are manufactured in Ireland you'd think they would be looking to source them from there.........

smurgen

smurgen wrote: »

Just wondering. One of those metrics is GNI per capita. Isn't Modified GNI or Net National Income probably a better metric? Doesn't the multinational effect or "Leprechaun economics" distort GDP and GNI for Ireland?

Ah looks like there was something to it. Still 9th place is good.

https://twitter.com/jlpobrien/status/1339700038801514496?s=19

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

I must say I'm confused. Why are the HSE in touch with the Chinese supplier? Surely the HSE should be in touch with the IDA chap to recover taxpayers funds.

Somebody got a backhander IMO.

jmayo

Deleted User wrote: »

Its truely bizzare hes still keeping up.this nonsense saying its not a bailout

Who is continously saying it wasn't a bailout ?

Just because some of us fooking know the difference between the owners of a company and the lenders to that company you and your fellow ra heads are in a tissy.

FFS no wonder sinn feins economic policies are bullcr**.

Bowie wrote: »

Can you see how my commenting on a one man company who promotes gigs in the middle east, got a contract to import ventilators/respirators, which were not fit for purpose, is an issue? Do we need to give it the 'ah sure they're all at it'? I don't think so. We need to call it out IMO.

I fooking know only too well that a one man foking company with absolutely no experience in the business shouldn't have got the gig.

Do you have any business dealings ever with HSE, Dept of Health ?
Well if you do you should know only too well what a shyehole it is and how dodgy it can be at times.

But I also know the way Ireland works that it isn't always political party connections that gets you things.

And no that doesnot also mean that I can't see the political corruption ala developers, bankers, government contracts, right down to local planning.

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-un-human-development-index-2019-5303638-Dec2020/?utm_source=facebook_short&fbclid=IwAR2LuKeYCT9GJZzX8LxvTeejLoYS80tU4KkHWOZY21Jw80gqmSYii0jWWzY

Ireland has the second highest quality of life in the world according to the UN.

But it's a **** hole according to SF and their merry band of followers!!!

They are trying to get us used to what the place would be really like if they took over.

Deleted User wrote: »

Fantastic country for the 3000.kids in homeless,the 60 or so homeless deaths this year,the out-of-control suicide situation

Would some of these thousands of kids be like the mega family of homeless people like Margaret Cash?

You know families that have never worked, never owned a property but yet kept breeding like rabbits.

A lot of the official homeless are not as some would play the down on their luck hardworking much upon families but the fookers who never worked a day in their fooking lives, but want to jump up the housing lists.

Deleted User wrote: »

Fantastic country for the 10s of thosand young adults stuck at home,because rents are out of control

Now here I agree with you.

Deleted User wrote: »

How many thousands are left to rot in direct provision?

If they were legitimate they wouldn't be there rotting in direct provision for ages.
Chancers, often trying their hand in numerous countries, but people like you will buy the hogwash they are pedaling and demand they aren't fooked out.

And then you will be wondering why young poeple can't find places to rent for a decent price.

Ever thing if we had less fookers here chancing their arm joining our own chancers then accommodation might be more available.

grayzer75 wrote: »

Given the fact that one of the worlds biggest ventilator manufacturers is Medtronic in Galway and all the machined components for the ventilators are manufactured in Ireland you'd think they would be looking to source them from there.........

How many fookijng times does it have to be spelt out.
Medtronic /Covidien manufactures for the whole world and they don't have to give us first call on their products.



The HSE also buy ventilators from other companies that are manufactured elsewhere.
It is like how French and Italians nowadays buy cars that are not manufactured in their countries.

But all of that doesn't explain why they used this chancer to source the kit for them and why they didn't ask for guarantee research as to it's capabilities.

RandomViewer

Direct provision is basically a way for FFG to channel money to their cronies, fxxk they are even using taxpayer money to pay for 24hour security to these private enterprises,
Homelessness is another scam with more spent on hotel rooms in hotels that are otherwise insolvent,
NAMA had more than enough properties to house every migrant and homeless person with minimal cost to the state but instead they sold them off for peanuts and are now renting them back for more than they were sold for, we really need to build a huge prison for white collar crime ,

James Brown

A lot of private profit to be made from building to lease or rent, often with the governments blessing as they wait in the wings to spend tax payer money on buying, renting, leasing. No wonder their former housing adviser, now TD (and bully, Jennifer Carroll MacNeill) is married to the former head of Goldman Sachs in Ireland.
They are in no rush to tackle housing outside of filling private pockets.

Tpcl20

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1340411454885949441?s=20

It seems FF/FG are reaping what they have sown (in the past few months in particular but also in general, always).

I have to say, I find SF to be an unsavoury alternative but I would vote for them to get rid of the other useless shower.

IngazZagni

Not surprising. Probably makes the prospects of an election before 2024 less likely the more the polls stay this way. The Greens leaving would be them signing their resignations as TD’s.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

Ah looks like there was something to it. Still 9th place is good.

https://twitter.com/jlpobrien/status/1339700038801514496?s=19

Oh wow, Ireland is only the ninth best place to live rather than the second, so our society is a failure.

Other than inter-generatIonal life-long social welfare, our problems are relatively small.

blanch152

Tpcl20 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1340411454885949441?s=20

It seems FF/FG are reaping what they have sown (in the past few months in particular but also in general, always).

I have to say, I find SF to be an unsavoury alternative but I would vote for them to get rid of the other useless shower.

Reading that, the current government still has a comfortable majority, despite having a pandemic to deal with.

Bubbaclaus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If there was an election in morning FFG have no obvious canditdates to go in with....as greens,labour and indos only barely scrape 15%??

This isnt enough to deliver a canditdate in most 4 seaters and will only almost gaurantee roughly 33%chance ( i think or 35%??) in 5 seaters,assuming they work together as regards transfers

I cant see greens get shinner/soc dem/solidarity transfers in same numbers as last time??

If that poll ended up being the first preference results in an election though, the 49% for FF and FG combined would almost certainly get them over 80 seats without the need of any 3rd party. Particularly since they will probably be more realistic next time around in terms of the number of candidates they would run in certain constituencies.

That's assuming they are still in talking terms after 5 years of trying to one up each other in the current coalition.

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

Oh wow, Ireland is only the ninth best place to live rather than the second, so our society is a failure.

Other than inter-generatIonal life-long social welfare, our problems are relatively small.

Trying re-reading it. I think you didn't understand.