FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

PearseCork92

Deleted User wrote: »

People won’t listen to the government, so I doubt that they’d bother listening to the experts. Much more fun attending house parties or visiting the local shebeen and share the virus!

Why bother mentioning sheebeens at all? In my locality there have been nearly 20 cases linked to a pub where people gathered to watch the All-Ireland. Patrons were managed according to government restrictions and still there was a cluster.

You only mention sheebeens and house parties because of the PErSonAL rESponsIBiliTy deflection angle.

Here's a new one for you: Government responsibility.

smurgen

PearseCork92 wrote: »

Why bother mentioning sheebeens at all? In my locality there have been nearly 20 cases linked to a pub where people gathered to watch the All-Ireland. Patrons were managed according to government restrictions and still there was a cluster.

You only mention sheebeens and house parties because of the PErSonAL rESponsIBiliTy deflection angle.

Here's a new one for you: Government responsibility.

Or how about the outbreak in New Ross arising from a covid positive person that travelled into ireland covid positive? How was Irish society responsible from someone from abroad travelling around and interacting with others in a super spreading manner and effectively hiding or unaware of their illness?

FrancieBrady

smurgen wrote: »

If the government is free to reject expert advice and even dismiss them on live tv you'd want to be a right moron to expect ordinary people to adhere to expert advice.

The 'public' wanted tighter restrictions in Oct. Maryanne is ignoring reality to keep her fingers in her ears,

FrancieBrady

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Seriously Blanch - you aren't doing your cause any favours by on the one hand pointing the failure finger at a deeply sectarian society where the really important decisions are still made at a remove due to continued sectarian in-fighting (*coff coff DUP blocking health measures), and then trying to be holier than down when someone else uses a deeply sectarian society to make a point.

Or is it that some sectarianism is ok with you?

The exploitation of victims in general by a cohort here is pathetic, but the macabre way the Covid victims in the north were exploited from the start by blanch has been revealing and pathetic tbh.
He owes them a sincere apology.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'public' wanted tighter restrictions in Oct. Maryanne is ignoring reality to keep her fingers in her ears,

The reality is that no matter what the government decides, some people just carry on regardless as if there was no pandemic.

PearseCork92

Deleted User wrote: »

The reality is that no matter what the government decides, some people just carry on regardless as if there was no pandemic.

This is true of every country country and culture.

The difference between countries that have got a grip on the virus is one of governance, judgement and competent administration.

smurgen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The reality is that no matter what the government decides, some people just carry on regardless as if there was no pandemic.

If this is true why do we pay our politicians and their advisors so much? If they are helpless to influence outcomes?

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0101/1187177-covid-19/



What kind of nonsense is this? What tripe are they feeding us now? An old computer system that cannot count above 2000 or something? Are they using an abacus??!

Seriously though, has anyone clarified what this guff from the HSE/govt actually means?

The computer system for notifying infectious diseases is old and was designed to report sporadic cases on a weekly basis - not for the kind of numbers that are now being seen.

It just astounds me they can claim this stuff to hide their failings.

Gooey Looey

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The reality is that no matter what the government decides, some people just carry on regardless as if there was no pandemic.

But the govt decided to do nothing, they choose not to go into immediate level 5 and to allow the opening of hospitality industry against the advice of experts, it's not the public's fault no matter how you spin things. It's a monumental fcuk up by the govt, they sent out completely the wrong messages, made out they new better, even tried to belittle the experts. They even promoted the message that people would be fine to come home from the UK for Xmas!

Pedro K

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The reality is that no matter what the government decides, some people just carry on regardless as if there was no pandemic.

I bet if things were going well, you'd be heaping praise upon the government for their response.

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

The reality is that no matter what the government decides, some people just carry on regardless as if there was no pandemic.

But Maryanne this is just the way some people are - they will drive drunk, they will exploit those who work for them, scam people etc etc - and that is why we have laws.
Laws to protect people from those to whom "personal responsibility" means -"doing what I want regardless of consequences" - the laws make sure there are consequences.

But govt failed to make sure there are adequate consequences - people could and did fly in and the vast majority were able to go where they wished.
There is no statutory requirement to self-isolate.
No legal consequence for knowingly spreading the virus.

I agree it does come down to personal responsibility but I am not so naive as to think there are a number of human beings who lack the capacity and will find any loophole/justification to do as they wish - after all Senators didn't bother to follow the rules - when members of govt don't bother then the message is "carry on regardless".

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

So for the sake of the island an all island approach would make the most sense.
Its unfortunate DUP/FG aren't pushing for it.
No border closure would work as well.

Which bit of our government can't invade the North and mandate an all-island approach is beyond understanding of those who call for it?

blanch152

Bannasidhe wrote: »

But Maryanne this is just the way some people are - they will drive drunk, they will exploit those who work for them, scam people etc etc - and that is why we have laws.
Laws to protect people for whom "personal responsibility" means -"doing what I want regardless of consequences" - the laws make sure there are consequences.

But govt failed to make sure there are adequate consequences - people could and did fly in and the vast majority were able to go where they wished.
There is no statutory requirement to self-isolate.
No legal consequence for knowingly spreading the virus.

I agree it does come down to personal responsibility but I am not so naive as to think there are a number of human beings who lack the capacity and will find any loophole/justification to do as they wish - after all Senators didn't bother to follow the rules - when members of govt don't bother then the message is "carry on regardless".

You are looking for the kind of society that outlaws travel - is that compatible with the constitution? Is it compatible with our obligations under European conventions on human rights?

Singapore, Taiwan, China, North Korea - they can adopt such draconian measures, even Australia, but we are bound by obligations under international law to the EU, to the common travel area etc.

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Seriously though, has anyone clarified what this guff from the HSE/govt actually means?



It just astounds me they can claim this stuff to hide their failings.

Talking to yourself now, Cleudo?

smurgen

Good to know Michael Martin's claim in his address of the nation that the cause of the recent surge was the new UK strain is fake news. It is not supported by scientific evidence. Need better excuses!

https://twitter.com/CillianDeGascun/status/1345139326863224838?s=19

Pedro K

blanch152 wrote: »

You are looking for the kind of society that outlaws travel - is that compatible with the constitution? Is it compatible with our obligations under European conventions on human rights?

Singapore, Taiwan, China, North Korea - they can adopt such draconian measures, even Australia, but we are bound by obligations under international law to the EU, to the common travel area etc.

Are we not currently stopping people from flying to Ireland from the UK?

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

You are looking for the kind of society that outlaws travel - is that compatible with the constitution? Is it compatible with our obligations under European conventions on human rights?

Singapore, Taiwan, China, North Korea - they can adopt such draconian measures, even Australia, but we are bound by obligations under international law to the EU, to the common travel area etc.

It's not like we've every adopted draconian measures on our own citizens like 2km and 5km travel restrictions jesus wept. Our government breaks EU laws and regulations all the time.

PearseCork92

Pedro K wrote: »

Are we not currently stopping people from flying to Ireland from the UK?

Oi, leave facts out of this Henry Kissinger. Certain posters' heads might pop.

Bishop of hope

smurgen wrote: »

It's not like we've every adopted draconian measures on our own citizens like 2km and 5km travel restrictions jesus wept. Our government breaks EU laws and regulations all the time.

He did.
Did you ever read yourself, not following health advice one post, draconian measures the next.
Yep, cockadoodledoo doo.

smurgen

Bishop of hope wrote: »

He did.
Did you ever read yourself, not following health advice one post, draconian measures the next.
Yep, cockadoodledoo doo.

Are you reply to my post here because it makes no sense to what I wrote lol.

RandomViewer

Is it true that a jet was dispatched to bring the Tanaiste back for a photo OP on December 21st??

Gooey Looey

RandomViewer wrote: »

Is it true that a jet was dispatched to bring the Tanaiste back for a photo OP on December 21st??

Photo with a fridge?

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

The reality is that no matter what the government decides, some people just carry on regardless as if there was no pandemic.

But that is not the reason for the mess we are in maryanne.

Doesn't come near to explaining it.

Bannasidhe

blanch152 wrote: »

You are looking for the kind of society that outlaws travel - is that compatible with the constitution? Is it compatible with our obligations under European conventions on human rights?

Singapore, Taiwan, China, North Korea - they can adopt such draconian measures, even Australia, but we are bound by obligations under international law to the EU, to the common travel area etc.

Oh stop with the hyperbolic made up nonsense.
We managed to stop flights from the UK under clear conditions with equally clear caveats- did you scream foul then? Whither your concerns for the Common Travel Area when govt unilaterally announced that? And then extended it...

Not that I mentioned "outlawing travel " you pulled that out of your fervent imagination. I referred to people being required to properly isolate, and being properly monitored, and paying severe penalties if they fail to do so. What "international law" does that infringe Blanch?

When the German authorities refused entry to my brother and niece from Switzerland in the beginning of December were their human rights infringed?

Making up nonsensical things, falsely claim someone else said them, then issuing dire portents isn't a great tactic either tbh.

Bishop of hope

smurgen wrote: »

Are you reply to my post here because it makes no sense to what I wrote lol.

You're being critical of govt for not implementing medical advice in most of your posts, yet describing the 2 and 5 k limits that were introduced as draconian?

Cluedo Monopoly

Deleted User wrote: »

Talking to yourself now, Cleudo?

Well since you FG excuse merchants are too embarrassed to respond

smurgen

Bishop of hope wrote: »

You're being critical of govt for not implementing medical advice in most of your posts, yet describing the 2 and 5 k limits that were introduced as draconian?

They are draconian/harsh and I support them. Where did I say I did not? Answer me this. Do you think ordinary citizens should pay heed to NPHET's advice or Government advice?

Bishop of hope

smurgen wrote: »

They are draconian/harsh and I support them. Where did I say I did not? Answer me this. Do you think ordinary citizens should pay heed to NPHET's advice or Government advice?

If in doubt, the medical.
Don't get me wrong, I accept its confusing surely.
I had pints myself and did most things on the govt allowed list, but I stayed away from crowds and mingling outside my own contacts.
Me nor any of my contacts either business or social has had covid or close contact even.
So if the govt rules are followed as given I'd say there's a good chance of staying safe.

Do you think we should close the NI border?

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

If in doubt, the medical.
Don't get me wrong, I accept its confusing surely.
I had pints myself and did most things on the govt allowed list, but I stayed away from crowds and mingling outside my own contacts.
Me nor any of my contacts either business or social has had covid or close contact even.
So if the govt rules are followed as given I'd say there's a good chance of staying safe.

Do you think we should close the NI border?

With the slow trainwreck down here you'll be hearing Unionists asking that question now.

The answer to both is 'no', ineffective and a waste of time.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

With the slow trainwreck down here you'll be hearing Unionists asking that question now.

The answer to both is 'no', ineffective and a waste of time.

Why would it?
If nmphet asked for it what would you say then?
2 questions there for you