FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

James Brown

So there's delays in vaccinating because of 'a number of reasons'. We know the main one they mention is 'consent'. This involves the patient or their ward signing a form consenting to taking the vaccine. Ireland seems to be the only country citing this as a block to quicker roll out.
My question is from March of last year didn't they know at some point, the hope was to roll out a vaccine? Couldn't we have started this prior to vaccine approval? On that note, did they wake up one day very recently and turn on their Netscape/Windows 95 system and realise it wasn't fit for purpose?

'Piss up in a brewery' comes to mind.

yagan

Bowie wrote: »

So there's delays in vaccinating because of 'a number of reasons'. We know the main one they mention is 'consent'. This involves the patient or their ward signing a form consenting to taking the vaccine. Ireland seems to be the only country citing this as a block to quicker roll out.
My question is from March of last year didn't they know at some point, the hope was to roll out a vaccine? Couldn't we have started this prior to approval?

'Piss up in a brewery' comes to mind.

Sweden were faffing about lockdowns being unconstitutional and any amendment would take months to legally rectify, but that's no longer a concern since their hospitals got swamped.

Bowie

Bowie wrote: »

So there's delays in vaccinating because of 'a number of reasons'. We know the main one they mention is 'consent'. This involves the patient or their ward signing a form consenting to taking the vaccine. Ireland seems to be the only country citing this as a block to quicker roll out.
My question is from March of last year didn't they know at some point, the hope was to roll out a vaccine? Couldn't we have started this prior to vaccine approval? On that note, did they wake up one day very recently and turn on their Netscape/Windows 95 system and realise it wasn't fit for purpose?

'Piss up in a brewery' comes to mind.

You obviously don’t keep an eye on things in the uk. The hoops retired medical professionals have to go through in order to give the vaccine is unbelievable. Every country has similar problems. The main one being that people are ignoring the fact that Covid is around and that they should be doing everything possible to avoid it.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

You obviously don’t keep an eye on things in the uk. The hoops retired medical professionals have to go through in order to give the vaccine is unbelievable. Every country has similar problems. The main one being that people are ignoring the fact that Covid is around and that they should be doing everything possible to avoid it.

Yet they've managed to begin some weeks ago.

Again, could they not have began the process several months ago?
Personally pointing 'over there' or 'at them' who may or may not be even worse doesn't do it for me Maryanne. We spent too long settling for sub par people.
Claiming to know worse doesn't stop poor from being poor.

PearseCork92

Deleted User wrote: »

You obviously don’t keep an eye on things in the uk. The hoops retired medical professionals have to go through in order to give the vaccine is unbelievable. Every country has similar problems. The main one being that people are ignoring the fact that Covid is around and that they should be doing everything possible to avoid it.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

They do? UK, Iceland, Bahrain, the US and above all Israel are out of the gates much much faster with vaccination.

Eastern countries like Japan, South Korea and Taiwan given their negligible rates can take their sweet time but expect them to blow past laggard countries once they press the go button. I know Korea for instance has deliberately adopted a sit back and wait strategy with vaccinations. I don't think we're adopting a sit back and wait stance, we're just not organised to the same extent.

Cluedo Monopoly

Bowie wrote: »

So there's delays in vaccinating because of 'a number of reasons'. We know the main one they mention is 'consent'. This involves the patient or their ward signing a form consenting to taking the vaccine. Ireland seems to be the only country citing this as a block to quicker roll out.
My question is from March of last year didn't they know at some point, the hope was to roll out a vaccine? Couldn't we have started this prior to vaccine approval? On that note, did they wake up one day very recently and turn on their Netscape/Windows 95 system and realise it wasn't fit for purpose?

'Piss up in a brewery' comes to mind.

Does Lotus 1-2-3 work on Netscape/Windows 95 because the numbers have skyrocketed to 4 figures?

Our FFG government is only ever reactive.

Bubbaclaus

We've vaccinated more than our 3 nearest EU neighbours (France, Belgium, Netherlands) combined. Any issue with slow rollout of vaccines is clearly not Irish specific and can be seen across the EU.

James Brown

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

We've vaccinated more than our 3 nearest EU neighbours (France, Belgium, Netherlands) combined. Any issue with slow rollout of vaccines is clearly not Irish specific and can be seen across the EU.

That's great. It really is. Knowing it's worse elsewhere really explains why we didn't start the forms process some months ago or turn on the aul' matrix to see how the Commodore 64's were faring.

It can take several months to become a ward of court for an elderly person. The process, if needed should have been streamlined years ago and on this, started months ago.

PearseCork92

Bowie wrote: »

That's great. It really is. Knowing it's worse elsewhere really explains why we didn't start the forms process some months ago or turn on the aul' matrix to see how the Commodore 64's were faring.

Leaked footage of the HSE computer procurement process...

Bubbaclaus

So MM projected 135k will have been vaccinated (both doses) by the end of February.

That would mean all 135k would need to have their first dose by the end of the first week of February, to allow the 21 days wait for the 2nd dose.

Based on current deliveries of 40k per week, we will have received 280k of the Pfizer vaccine by the 8th/9th of February. Holding half of them back for second dose would be 140k people.

So it looks like they are planning to vaccinate as quickly as it comes in.

It will be interesting to see what the weekly delivery of Moderna and AZ vaccines will ultimately be, to increase all of the above figures.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

So there's delays in vaccinating because of 'a number of reasons'. We know the main one they mention is 'consent'. This involves the patient or their ward signing a form consenting to taking the vaccine. Ireland seems to be the only country citing this as a block to quicker roll out.
My question is from March of last year didn't they know at some point, the hope was to roll out a vaccine? Couldn't we have started this prior to vaccine approval? On that note, did they wake up one day very recently and turn on their Netscape/Windows 95 system and realise it wasn't fit for purpose?

'Piss up in a brewery' comes to mind.

The problem here is the litigation around medical mishaps. We have had courts giving huge payouts under dubious assignment of fault. We have had people on here calling for all those who got cervical cancer to get multi-million payouts without fault being proved.

All of that adds up into a problem of ensuring that consent is properly given and the risks understood. As for doing it in advance, answer me this, how can someone give consent for something unknown. The vaccine had to be available first in order for informed consent to be given. If you don't even know the name of the vaccine, then how can you give informed consent? Somebody who even thought about the problem for more than 10 seconds would have realised that.

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

The problem here is the litigation around medical mishaps. We have had courts giving huge payouts under dubious assignment of fault. We have had people on here calling for all those who got cervical cancer to get multi-million payouts without fault being proved.

All of that adds up into a problem of ensuring that consent is properly given and the risks understood. As for doing it in advance, answer me this, how can someone give consent for something unknown. The vaccine had to be available first in order for informed consent to be given. If you don't even know the name of the vaccine, then how can you give informed consent? Somebody who even thought about the problem for more than 10 seconds would have realised that.

There's standard legal templates with wording that are used. These can be prepared well in advance and then updated quickly when the specific details are available.

Cluedo Monopoly

Excuses excuses from the FFG crew but the public know they hadn't done any in depth logistical planning and now they look like they are making it up on the fly. Is anyone accountable anymore?

Cluedo Monopoly

blanch152 wrote: »

We have had people on here calling for all those who got cervical cancer to get multi-million payouts without fault being proved.

Please elaborate. Which victim did not deserve compensation?

smurgen

smurgen wrote: »

There's standard legal templates with wording that are used. These can be prepared well in advance and then updated quickly when the specific details are available.

In the case of nursing homes, residents have to have the HSE leaflet, as well as the consent form read out to them individually, before they or a responsible person acting on their behalf, signs. Now, I don’t wish to make little of the elderly, but from personal experience, they take these forms seriously and will more than likely have questions to be answered. This takes more time than pressing a button on a computer.

smurgen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In the case of nursing homes, residents have to have the HSE leaflet, as well as the consent form read out to them individually, before they or a responsible person acting on their behalf, signs. Now, I don’t wish to make little of the elderly, but from personal experience, they take these forms seriously and will more than likely have questions to be answered. This takes more time than pressing a button on a computer.

I'm sure this could have been done in the previous 10 months.

FrancieBrady

smurgen wrote: »

I'm sure this could have been done in the previous 10 months.

It's probably the (elderly) people's fault, dontcha know?

smurgen

smurgen wrote: »

I'm sure this could have been done in the previous 10 months.

Was there a vaccination available 10 months ago?

smurgen

Negative testing for airport travel 9/10 months too late.

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1346551951803248640?s=19

smurgen

smurgen wrote: »

Negative testing for airport travel 9/10 months too late.

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1346551951803248640?s=19

Hindsight is 20/20 vision.

Government buildings

I think Fianna Fail is finished, regardless of who is leading the party.

All the parties in Ireland are basically left-wing now, some more so than the others.

The only hope for FF is for them to become a niche party supporting right wing policies.

I doubt this will happen.

End of the road for FF.

Government buildings

Government buildings wrote: »

I think Fianna Fail is finished, regardless of who is leading the party.

All the parties in Ireland are basically left-wing now, some more so than the others.

The only hope for FF is for them to become a niche party supporting right wing policies.

I doubt this will happen.

End of the road for FF.

The parties of the Left spend too much time fighting amongst themselves, falling out, regrouping, renaming themselves to ever agree to govern.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

The problem here is the litigation around medical mishaps. We have had courts giving huge payouts under dubious assignment of fault. We have had people on here calling for all those who got cervical cancer to get multi-million payouts without fault being proved.

All of that adds up into a problem of ensuring that consent is properly given and the risks understood. As for doing it in advance, answer me this, how can someone give consent for something unknown. The vaccine had to be available first in order for informed consent to be given. If you don't even know the name of the vaccine, then how can you give informed consent? Somebody who even thought about the problem for more than 10 seconds would have realised that.

I'll take that as anecdotal.

Do you think the ingredients will be on the consent form? Have you ever signed such a thing? Generally it's a boiler plate giving up any rights to hold [insert name] responsible. I think you even sign one getting a tattoo ffs. Surely somebody scrambling to run defense could have thought of something better. Batteries in the wireless mouse they were thinking of using running low, Microsoft Office licence expired or the like?

Tell me this, how detailed do you think these consent forms are? Will people be hiring legal council?

Cluedo Monopoly

Josepha Madigan must be feeling pretty stupid today.

Just yesterday she said the schools were safe and that 'schools are not closed, holidays were extended for 3 days'.

Today her entire Radio 1 conversation is utterly obsolete. Why did she go on the show at all???

She is the Minister of State for Special Education ffs. Not a clue.

James Brown

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Excuses excuses from the FFG crew but the public know they hadn't done any in depth logistical planning and now they look like they are making it up on the fly. Is anyone accountable anymore?

Nope. As has been made clear by the FF/FG lobby for the previous FG/FF government, nobody in government is responsible for anything. Even a (Black &) Tanaiste making comments is only to be regarded as a private citizen just shooting the ****.

smurgen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hindsight is 20/20 vision.

People have been calling for that and more for months. Of course the numbskulls dismissed it because it was proposed by leftist parties!

smurgen

smurgen wrote: »

People have been calling for that and more for months. Of course the numbskulls dismissed it because it was proposed by leftist parties!

“People” have been calling for lots of things. Doesn’t mean that it’s all doable. No one could predict the pandemic lasting this long.

jmcc

Deleted User wrote: »

No one could predict the pandemic lasting this long.

Rubbish. The FFG government is a veritable clown college of mediocrities.

Regards...jmcc

Cluedo Monopoly

[Deleted User] wrote: »

“People” have been calling for lots of things. Doesn’t mean that it’s all doable. No one could predict the pandemic lasting this long.

Everybody knew it would get way worse in the winter months for obvious reasons. The Irish hospitals can barely cope pre Covid because of decades of FFG mismanagement.

Suckit

I'm pretty sure Leo said something in one of his Mean Girls/Terminator/Lord of the Rings etc., speeches mentioning that the pandemic was here for the foreseeable future and he also said the virus was here to stay.