FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

McMurphy · 11-01-2021 9:35am

55 emails - who no-one knows the identity of who the sender's were..... That makes Leo's hatchet job ok so.

Even if 55 emails originated from YFG and boards.ie FG zealots, and this is the thing, when you don't know the identity of the sender, or the authenticity of the email, they can be from anyone you like, saying anything you want.

Whole story is propaganda and BS.

smurgen · 11-01-2021 9:36am

Gooey Looey wrote: »

I see the FG spin machine is in full swing....
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/it-needed-to-be-said-public-praise-for-varadkar-s-criticism-of-nphet-1.4454683

This is the rehabilitation of Varadkar. His time for analysis was really time for the party loyalist to have their focus groups and the usual FG presstitutes time to get to work churning out revisionist pieces. All part of the reason of why we are where we are. Fine Gael's Christmas videos screamed safety and go out and have a ball.

https://twitter.com/DeayCiaran/status/1345457474032300032?s=19

grayzer75 · 11-01-2021 9:37am

thomas 123 wrote: »

Don’t forget the safe schools.

- Forcing schools to open when principles thought it unsafe due to case numbers.
- not testing class mates or teachers with the same criteria as the general public.
- many many more issues

There's One test centre for Co Louth which closed during Christmas even though Louth has one of the highest rates in the country, this meant people from places like Omeath and Carlingford had to travel to Mullingar for testing - if they had transport to get there. Needless to say many didn't make it to the test centre.

https://www.dundalkdemocrat.ie/news/home/600275/outrage-as-louth-covid-19-test-centre-closed-over-christmas.html

This government has screwed this up bigtime by undermining the experts and opening up before Christmas.

Bishop of hope · 11-01-2021 10:17am

grayzer75 wrote: »

There's One test centre for Co Louth which closed during Christmas even though Louth has one of the highest rates in the country, this meant people from places like Omeath and Carlingford had to travel to Mullingar for testing - if they had transport to get there. Needless to say many didn't make it to the test centre.

https://www.dundalkdemocrat.ie/news/home/600275/outrage-as-louth-covid-19-test-centre-closed-over-christmas.html

This government has screwed this up bigtime by undermining the experts and opening up before Christmas.

Not everyone agrees with you.
https://www.facebook.com/1104846566256038/posts/4836874409719883/

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2021 10:33am

The expert advice seems to have been bang on the money again. Tragic.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1348561664820584448

christy c · 11-01-2021 10:40am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The expert advice seems to have been bang on the money again. Tragic.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1348561664820584448

Let's hope most of our politicians are not content to ignore it like they were last time.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2021 10:44am

christy c wrote: »

Let's hope most of our politicians are not content to ignore it like they were last time.

Remains to be seen of this data was available to all politicians. If Alan Kelly's complaint about not having access to the data /numbers is anything to go by they weren't. I was certainly not aware of these projections.

christy c · 11-01-2021 10:48am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Remains to be seen of this data was available to all politicians. If Alan Kelly's complaint about not having access to the data /numbers is anything to go by they weren't. I was certainly not aware of these projections.

Well if that's the case, it was very reckless of Alan Kelly, Sinn Fein, etc. to welcome the easing when the knew advice was being ignored. Hope they learn some lessons from it.

The government will rightly get it in the neck for this.

blanch152 · 11-01-2021 10:51am

RandomViewer wrote: »

Shouldn't those who abused the facility be charged appropriately , say a grand and no passport for ten years? Lot of this sh#t is fairly straightforward you breach the 5k rule you arent insured so bye bye licence, without proper punishments there wont be compliance,
CAB, Revenue should have turned Keelings upside down last April, that would have stopped the shebeens and the housparties ,shown no matter how big you think you are you have to toe the line

Struggling to understand the bit in bold.

Which part of the Road Traffic Act allows for this?

Have you any idea of how complicated that Act is, and how often it is challenged in court?

If Revenue turned Keelings upside down last April, what food would you have eaten in May? Of all the things suggested on here, stopping essential workers from doing their job is probably one of the silliest.

McMurphy · 11-01-2021 10:51am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Remains to be seen of this data was available to all politicians. If Alan Kelly's complaint about not having access to the data /numbers is anything to go by they weren't. I was certainly not aware of these projections.

Christy did you even read the post you quoted?

christy c wrote: »

Well if that's the case, it was very reckless of Alan Kelly, Sinn Fein, etc. to welcome the easing when the knew advice was being ignored. Hope they learn some lessons from it.

The government will rightly get it in the neck for this.

smurgen · 11-01-2021 10:53am

Minimum alcohol pricing kicks in today. I'm sure the personal responsibility die hards are disgusted at government for this hand holding.

christy c · 11-01-2021 10:54am

McMurphy wrote: »

Christy did you even read the post you quoted?

Yes I did. If they didn't have access to the numbers then it was reckless to support easing. I mean it was national headlines that advice was being ignored.

grayzer75 · 11-01-2021 10:54am

smurgen wrote: »

Minimum alcohol pricing kicks in today. I'm sure the personal responsibility die hards are disgusted at government for this hand holding.

We'll probably see a ramp up in cross border traffic at the weekend as a result.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2021 10:55am

McMurphy wrote: »

Christy did you even read the post you quoted?

It's fabulous isn't it.

Unbelievable the defence's that are being mounted here. Everybody else's fault but those with the responsibility and the control.

christy c · 11-01-2021 11:00am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's fabulous isn't it. Unbelievable the defence's that are being mounted here. Everybody else's fault but those with the responsibility and the control.

Defence? I said the government will rightly get it in the neck.

Just pointing out that the opposition were aware advice was being ignored, yet welcomed the easing anyway. Some of the Sinn Fein zealots may struggle with that fact.

McMurphy · 11-01-2021 11:02am

christy c wrote: »

Yes I did. If they didn't have access to the numbers then it was reckless to support easing. I mean it was national headlines that advice was being ignored.

So they should be blamed for not knowing about data they weren't shown, or privy to?

You wanna run how that works by me please chief?

christy c · 11-01-2021 11:03am

McMurphy wrote: »

So they should be blamed for not knowing about data they weren't shown, or privy to?

You wanna run that by me again please chief?

No, they shouldn't be welcoming something when they are aware advice is being ignored.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2021 11:04am

christy c wrote: »

Defence? I said the government will rightly get it in the neck.

Just pointing out that the opposition were aware advice was being ignored, yet welcomed the easing anyway. Some of the Sinn Fein zealots may struggle with that fact.

Like me, the opposition believed that a 'balanced decision' had been taken.

How did they balance these graphic projections though?

christy c · 11-01-2021 11:06am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like me, the opposition believed that a 'balanced decision' had been taken.

How did they balance these graphic projections though?

Why did they blindly believe a balanced decision was made when the experts were ignored? Experts were not giving advice for the sake of it

McMurphy · 11-01-2021 11:06am

christy c wrote: »

No, they shouldn't be welcoming something when they are aware advice is being ignored.

I'm struggling to grasp your logic here - you feel they are as culpable as the people who A - actually had the data/figures and chose not to share said data with opposition, and B - are the actual Govt, so the buck begins and stops with them anyway.

Are you actually serious here, stop it, I can't take you serious at all.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2021 11:09am

christy c wrote: »

Why did they blindly believe a balanced decision was made when the experts were ignored? Experts were not giving advice for the sake of it

Should this not be the question you are asking of the government on a government thread?

Anyone would think somebody who voted for the best of a bad lot was defending the government trenchantly here.

The opposition had to proceed on trust, like all of us. Turns out that trust was massively betrayed here as there seems to me to be no way you could have made a 'balanced decision' on the basis of these projections. I.E. You lied to the people and to the opposition.

christy c · 11-01-2021 11:09am

McMurphy wrote: »

I'm struggling to grasp your logic here - you feel they are as culpable as the people who A - actually had the data/figures and chose not to share said data with opposition, and B - are the actual Govt, so the buck begins and stops with them anyway.

Are you actually serious here, stop it, I can't take you serious at all.

Don't worry, I haven't taken you serious for a long time either.

Yes the government will rightly be blamed, but our opposition welcoming it while it making national headlines that advice was being ignored is wrong too, but not to the same degree.

christy c · 11-01-2021 11:11am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Should this not be the question you are asking of the government on a government thread?

Anyone would think somebody who voted for the best of a bad lot was defending the government trenchantly here.

The opposition had to proceed on trust, like all of us. Turns out that trust was massively betrayed here as there seems to me to be no way you could have made a 'balanced decision' on the basis of these projections. I.E. You lied to the people and to the opposition.

Haha, trust? Hopefully they will learn lessons as I said.

11-01-2021 11:14am

smurgen wrote: »

Minimum alcohol pricing kicks in today. I'm sure the personal responsibility die hards are disgusted at government for this hand holding.

Thank God I got a 6 month supply in before Christmas! Now to make it last 6 months!

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2021 11:15am

christy c wrote: »

Haha, trust? Hopefully they will learn lessons as I said.

What else could they or we do? The weren't given access to this data.

Everybody 'wanted' society to open up christyc, seems to me the government cynically took a risk in order to be popular.

Yet YOU direct most of your ire towards those not ultimately responsible. As defensive as any FF FG Green government loyalists there are around here.

smurgen · 11-01-2021 11:17am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thank God I got a 6 month supply in before Christmas! Now to make it last 6 months!

Unlike covid measure this is permanent not temporary.

christy c · 11-01-2021 11:17am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What else could they or we do? The weren't given access to this data.

Everybody 'wanted' society to open up christyc, seems to me the government cynically took a risk in order to be popular.

Yet YOU direct most of your ire towards those not ultimately responsible. As defensive as any FF FG Green government loyalists there are around here.

What else could they do? A simple, "it is nice that society is opening up but we are concerned that advice is being ignored and have asked the government for more information".

smurgen · 11-01-2021 11:18am

christy c wrote: »

What else could they do? A simple, "it is nice that society is opening up but we are concerned that advice is being ignored and have asked the government for more information".

The mandatory quarantine on arrival in a designated facility would have done wonders if it was enacted in May.

christy c · 11-01-2021 11:19am

smurgen wrote: »

The mandatory quarantine on arrival in a designated facility would have done wonders if it was enacted in May.

Yep, still have the problem of coming in through the back door in Belfast but no doubt it would have helped.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2021 11:30am

christy c wrote: »

What else could they do? A simple, "it is nice that society is opening up but we are concerned that advice is being ignored and have asked the government for more information".

Here is how the government couched it. It was a decision based on data presented by the experts NPHET and the HSE

He said the Government will aim to “strike the right balance” with the measures they announce.

“We are social animals, Mr McGrath said. "We enjoy interacting, having a chat, meeting people.
"But that is the very environment where the virus thrives, so there is a complex set of factors here that has to be taken into account,”

He added that the final decisions will be hammered out at Cabinet today.

The team also raised concerns around the resumption of religious services and warned of high rates of the virus across the border.

However, one senior Government source said: “Nphet see things solely through the prism of public health".

“We have to look at societal, economic, and other considerations," the source said. "It is no surprise Nphet are concerned about pubs and restaurants. We expected that. But they advise, and Government decides. Opening up is a risk, a calculated risk, but one worth taking.”

Looks to me and I am sure everybody else that they took a 'risk' with the public health 'calculated' on nothing but their own popularity.

That's the bottom line here. Let whatever blame fall on opposition fall where it may, it doesn't excuse.

FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

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