FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's the bottom line here. Let whatever blame fall on opposition fall where it may.

Except i suspect there will be repeated attempts by SF zealots to remove blame from the the opposition, such as hand waving away of them being aware advice was being ignored.

I do agree with you though, this doesn't excuse the government.

smurgen

Established leaker that defended own leaking disgusted at leaking.

https://twitter.com/Elaine_Loughlin/status/1348567737149349888?s=19

christy c

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Mate,the opposition dont make the decisions....this mess is entirely of ffg making



How have you come to.conclusion that the opposition must shoulder some of the blame for government decisions??

They wouldnt allow shinners into government,so shinners must now,carry the can for government mistakes....are you high?

The opposition were aware the government were ignoring advice and blindly went along with it. Thats fine with you?

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

Except i suspect there will be repeated attempts by SF zealots to remove blame from the the opposition, such as hand waving away of them being aware advice was being ignored.

I do agree with you though, this doesn't excuse the government.

They were told, as the article shows, that a balnced decision had been taken. Turns out they were lied to. Unless the government can show how those stark projections were 'balanced' and what was the 'calculated risk'.

tomglsn

smurgen wrote: »

Established leaker that defended own leaking disgusted at leaking.

https://twitter.com/Elaine_Loughlin/status/1348567737149349888?s=19

He has no shame whatsoever.

christy c

christy c wrote: »

The opposition were aware the government were ignoring advice and blindly went along with it. Thats fine with you?

Gonna go with a new concept in irishpol,the government are responsible for government decisions


The opposition have no say in running the state....you grasp this concept,right??




Did they disclose the entirety of the info from.nephet to.the opposition

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They were told, as the article shows, that a balnced decision had been taken. Turns out they were lied to. Unless the government can show how those stark projections were 'balanced' and what was the 'calculated risk'.

Well they're either following the expert advice or not. And it was clear they were not, yet the majority of our politicians were fine with that.

Bishop of hope

christy c wrote: »

The opposition were aware the government were ignoring advice and blindly went along with it. Thats fine with you?

It's the govt alright.

https://www.facebook.com/1104846566256038/posts/4836799343060723/

christy c

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Gonna go with a new concept in irishpol,the government are responsible for government decisions


The opposition have no say in running the state....you grasp this concept,right??




Did they disclose the entirety of the info from.nephet to.the opposition

If the opposition didn't have the information they needed, then they should have made a statement similar to what I said earlier "we are happy to see society opening up but are concerned advice is being ignored and have asked the government for more information". Simple

christy c

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why didnt the government give them the info,or get leo to leak it as usual??


What other info from nephet is the government covering up?

I dont know what information was given or not given to the opposition, what I do know is that it made national headlines that advice was being ignored.

furrybones

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Why do men (always men) who spend so much of the day posting about politics know so very, very little about how it actually works?


:eek:

Because confidence does not equal competence, and since most men are led to believe they are good leaders they have enough bravado or narcissism to pull it off, even if they are clueless.

smurgen

Government have alot to answer for with the state of the healthcare system. Seeing some absolute harrowing posts by people now. All the chickens are coming home to roost and the most vulnerable will suffer.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

The opposition were aware the government were ignoring advice and blindly went along with it. Thats fine with you?

This is gas, you've been told repeatedly, REPEATEDLY, that they (the opposition) were not shown the data/information of what exactly was being ignored, there's even evidence the opposition were being lied to about the seriousness of the risks, and yet you want them to take the blame?

I gotta tell you christy, for a fella who only votes for FG as the best of a bad lot, you're certainly willing to take some blows for them with your staunch defence and scrambling around to apportion blame to others.

Looks to me like FFG were given a map, barely looked at it, and refused to let anyone else see it, then took everyone into the forest, assuring them they knew the way out again, and now thinks everyone else is to blame for them being hopelessly lost.

It's fcuking madness.

Bannasidhe

This sums up the sheers ineptitude of the current govt for me:

There was an exemption in place up to Dec 31st which waved the need for over 70s to supply a med cert (baring those with specified conditions) when renewing their drivers licence so they didn't need to attend a GP.

My Mother's licence is up on the 14th Jan. Apart from being in her 80s she is a fine healthy woman with none of the specified medical conditions.

On Jan 4th I set about trying to get up to date info. Nothing had been updated. Grand I thought - I'll give them a few days. By the 7th still no updates so I managed to contact the RSA and they told me forms would be posted out. Sure enough form had been posted - along with the medical declaration which it was clearly stated needed to be signed by a GP. It categorically said the med cert exemption ended on 31st Dec.

9 am this morning I'm on the phone to the GP trying to get an appt for a form to be stamped... then my sister messages me to say it was announced the med cert exemption was extended until June. So I rang back and cancelled the appt... so what you might say - 'what' being their phone lines are hopping, each time I was on hold for 10 minutes (prescriptions renewals etc can be renewed via email) - they were put to the pin of their collar to find a slot - all for a form filling exercise not required 2 weeks ago. And no longer needed as of today, but apparently needed last week.

Now - why did it take until the 11th Jan for this to be announced?

How many people over 70 needlessly went to a GP office last week to get a form they no longer need signed by an overworked GP?

FrancieBrady

Martin and Varadkar should have added - 'if the leaker is found or even if they confess to leaking it, we will circle the wagons and defend them if he/she is one of ours, we worked hard last year to establish that precedent'.


https://www.thejournal.ie/leo-varadkar-mother-and-baby-home-leak-5321701-Jan2021/?utm_source=shortlink

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

Minimum alcohol pricing kicks in today. I'm sure the personal responsibility die hards are disgusted at government for this hand holding.

No, it doesn't. Minimum alcohol pricing does not kick in today. The amount of fake news posted around here is absurd.

What kicks in today is not minimum alcohol pricing, it is abolition of 6 for €40 deals, €10 off if you spend €50, loyalty points etc. It does not include minimum alcohol pricing.

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

This is gas, you've been told repeatedly, REPEATEDLY, that they (the opposition) were not shown the data/information of what exactly was being ignored, there's even evidence the opposition were being lied to about the seriousness of the risks, and yet you want them to take the blame?

I gotta tell you christy, for a fella who only votes for FG as the best of a bad lot, you're certainly willing to take some blows for them with your staunch defence and scrambling around to apportion blame to others.

Looks to me like FFG were given a map, barely looked at it, and refused to let anyone else see it, then took everyone into the forest, assuring them they knew the way out again, and now thinks everyone else is to blame for them being hopelessly lost.

It's fcuking madness.

Its very very simple if that was the case, all they had to say at the time was "we are happy to see society opening up but are concerned advice is being ignored and have asked the government for more information". I've said that "REPEATEDLY".

Who i vote for is my business, and I will happily contribute when I please.

Floppybits

What sums up the current government for me is that we had a government minister who was waiting on the results to a Covid test and he heads off shopping while waiting on the results which then come back positive. If a government minister who is sitting at the cabinet table and has all the facts can't follow the directions from his own government what chance have the rest of us.

On opening up a Christmas, I think the government always knew there would be a spike in the cases and a lockdown would come in the new year, what I think they didn't count on was the impact of the UK variation of the virus. Prior to opening up we heard very little about this variant (well I did anyway) and would the numbers be as bad as they are if this variant hadn't got here? If NPHET were aware and warned the government about this strain and yet the government ignored this then yes the government should be held to account for this.

Cluedo Monopoly

Floppybits wrote: »

What sums up the current government for me is that we had a government minister who was waiting on the results to a Covid test and he heads off shopping while waiting on the results which then come back positive. If a government minister who is sitting at the cabinet table and has all the facts can't follow the directions from his own government what chance have the rest of us.

On opening up a Christmas, I think the government always knew there would be a spike in the cases and a lockdown would come in the new year, what I think they didn't count on was the impact of the UK variation of the virus. Prior to opening up we heard very little about this variant (well I did anyway) and would the numbers be as bad as they are if this variant hadn't got here? If NPHET were aware and warned the government about this strain and yet the government ignored this then yes the government should be held to account for this.

Who was the minister that went shopping pending a Covid result?

Cluedo Monopoly

Looks like a lot of tension in coalition over the leaking of the Mother and Baby home report/apology. I hope they find the leak. Idiotic move.

Floppybits

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Who was the minister that went shopping pending a Covid result?

That would be the Minister for Agriculture.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/minister-who-tested-positive-for-covid-after-shopping-trip-followed-all-rules-39897153.html

Cluedo Monopoly

Floppybits wrote: »

That would be the Minister for Agriculture.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/minister-who-tested-positive-for-covid-after-shopping-trip-followed-all-rules-39897153.html

That cabinet position is cursed!!

Do as we say....

Bannasidhe

And as the country locks down in level 5 7/8th the portal for applying for welfare payments crashes.

https://twitter.com/GNBCORK/status/1347639031203586048?s=20

some days later someone slightly official notices and says soz

https://twitter.com/welfare_ie/status/1348612188320182273?s=20

Floppybits

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Looks like a lot of tension in coalition over the leaking of the Mother and Baby home report/apology. I hope they find the leak. Idiotic move.

Surely there is a small group of people who would have access to the report that they can find out who leaked it? If they do find out who leaked it what can they do? After circling the wagons to protect Varadkar when he leaked a confidential document then they can't now turn around and take action against someone else. The hypocrisy of Varadkar calling for an investigation into the leak as well when it alot of people minds he would be the number 1 suspect already having form in this area.

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

Its very very simple if that was the case, all they had to say at the time was "we are happy to see society opening up but are concerned advice is being ignored and have asked the government for more information". I've said that "REPEATEDLY".

Who i vote for is my business, and I will happily contribute when I please.

Mary Lou McDonald and SF I presume reckon that any decision needs to be 'balanced'. Without being given the data this 'balanced' decision was based on, they welcomed the opening up of society.

Commenting on the announcement, Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald said the Government had to "strike a balance" in deciding what areas of the economy to reopen, adding they "made the right call" in allowing families to meet over the Christmas period.

Like everyone else (and surely how it should be) they trusted that it was a 'balanced decision'. Turns out that it wasn't, how could it be, 1200 cases was always danger zone and the overwhelming of the hospitals to be avoided even at the cost of Christmas.

Those who trusted that this was a balanced decision have been betrayed and are well within their rights to criticise.

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like everyone else (and surely how it should be) they trusted that it was a 'balanced decision'.

Isn't it her job to scrutinise? Did she ask for this information?

And what do you or SF see as a balanced decision? Any opening up will see a increase in infections and consequently deaths.

Again I do agree with you saying the government can be criticised.

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

Isn't it her job to scrutinise? Did she ask for this information?

And what do you or SF see as a balanced decision? Any opening up will see a increase in infections and consequently deaths.

Again I do agree with you saying the government can be criticised.

Any decision based on projections that clearly showed a loss of control of the numbers and hospital intake could not have been 'balanced'. I.E. the government were lying, on purpose or out of sheer incompetence.

You'll have to ask SF what a 'balanced decision' is in their view. My view is contained in the first sentence above.

Floppybits

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Those who trusted that this was a balanced decision have been betrayed and are well within their rights to criticise.

I can't believe I am doing this. Maybe the decision at the time was balanced but with the UK strain the numbers exploded. Now I am assuming that the government were unaware of the UK strain and the impact of it at the time they were opening up.

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Any decision based on projections that clearly showed a loss of control of the numbers and hospital intake could not have been 'balanced'. I.E. the government were lying, on purpose or out of sheer incompetence.

You'll have to ask SF what a 'balanced decision' is in their view. My view is contained in the first sentence above.

So what level of numbers are you talking about? We were already in the hundreds when re opening.

Floppybits

Floppybits wrote: »

I can't believe I am doing this. Maybe the decision at the time was balanced but with the UK strain the numbers exploded. Now I am assuming that the government were unaware of the UK strain and the impact of it at the time they were opening up.

The uk strain isnt to blame for this explosion in numbers according to nphet (testing seems to idicate this too)....the government are lying

They covered up.the unfolding mess in schools for so long and lied and lied as usual and now,when that runs out of road,they just blame someone else (UK strain)


If this strain was as rampant as they let on here,EU countries would stop travel to/from ireland over it