FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

As sad as the situation is it will be interesting to see how the FG lobby deal with not being able to point up north or to use a line from Varadkar, "its worse elsewhere"...cause it ain't.

Interesting, are you claiming that the numbers in hospitals and ICU in the North are lower than the South?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-55622553

736 in hospital in the North, equivalent to over 2,100 down here. Our numbers are bad, really bad (1,700 in hospital), but the situation in the North is terrifying, and their politicians don't have a clue what to do.

We have seen the overflow into Letterkenny and the difficulties caused by the overspill from the sh!tstorm up North, very sad for the people up there.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

Interesting, are you claiming that the numbers in hospitals and ICU in the North are lower than the South?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-55622553

736 in hospital in the North, equivalent to over 2,100 down here. Our numbers are bad, really bad (1,700 in hospital), but the situation in the North is terrifying, and their politicians don't have a clue what to do.

We have seen the overflow into Letterkenny and the difficulties caused by the overspill from the sh!tstorm up North, very sad for the people up there.

More deflection horse sh*t from FFG.

54,000 people came through Dublin airport without testing, tracking or tracing and were free to go about their business with restaurants and shops opened in the run up to Christmas. The government allowed mixing of multiple households up until the 28th of December. Not to mention the closure of some test centres over Christmas as well as some large gatherings.

We are now seeing the results including the magic 9,000 legacy cases that suddenly appeared out of nowhere.

The north was bad in December so they changed the plans over Christmas with household mixing restricted, non-essential shops closed, hospitality closed and the curfew kicked in on Christmas night at midnight for a week. As a result the infection numbers have decreased but the affect won't be seen in the hospitals for a number of weeks.

Bishop of hope

grayzer75 wrote: »

More deflection horse sh*t from FFG.

54,000 people came through Dublin airport without testing, tracking or tracing and were free to go about their business with restaurants and shops opened in the run up to Christmas. The government allowed mixing of multiple households up until the 28th of December. Not to mention the closure of some test centres over Christmas as well as some large gatherings.

We are now seeing the results including the magic 9,000 legacy cases that suddenly appeared out of nowhere.

The north was bad in December so they changed the plans over Christmas with household mixing restricted, non-essential shops closed, hospitality closed and the curfew kicked in on Christmas night at midnight for a week. As a result the infection numbers have decreased but the affect won't be seen in the hospitals for a number of weeks.

Not arguing your figures, but it wouldn't have mattered as if they couldn't have got in here they'd have been accommodated North of the border anyway and came in as happened in thousands of cases too.
We apparently can't close that border.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/coming-home-for-christmas-joy-and-tears-at-belfast-city-airport-29863262.html

I know, the link is old, but the capacity was there and was used

grayzer75

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Not arguing your figures, but it wouldn't have mattered as if they couldn't have got in here they'd have been accommodated North of the border anyway and came in as happened in thousands of cases too.
We apparently can't close that border.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/coming-home-for-christmas-joy-and-tears-at-belfast-city-airport-29863262.html

I know, the link is old, but the capacity was there and was used

So why did I have to go through a Covid checkpoint at the Carrickdale every morning and produce a letter from my employer to show I'm a frontline worker and then all of a sudden the checkpoint disappears a week before Christmas?

Surely they knew people from the south would go through Belfast?

Surely if they left the checkpoint they could have asked the nature of their journey, advised them to restrict their movements and take their contact details?

Bishop of hope

grayzer75 wrote: »

So why did I have to go through a Covid checkpoint at the Carrickdale every morning and produce a letter from my employer to show I'm a frontline worker and then all of a sudden the checkpoint disappears a week before Christmas?

Surely they knew people from the south would go through Belfast?

Surely if they left the checkpoint they could have asked the nature of their journey, advised them to restrict their movements and take their contact details?

Beats me, I suggested closing it off and was nearly shot by replies of all the crossing points by your fellow travellers.

Cluedo Monopoly

Bannasidhe

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Not arguing your figures, but it wouldn't have mattered as if they couldn't have got in here they'd have been accommodated North of the border anyway and came in as happened in thousands of cases too.
We apparently can't close that border.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/coming-home-for-christmas-joy-and-tears-at-belfast-city-airport-29863262.html

I know, the link is old, but the capacity was there and was used

Why could we not impose a strict quarantine?
Why could we not properly track and trace people?
Why were people resident in NI not bound by the lockdown rules south of the border in the 1st lockdown and possibly subsequent ones?

But but but the border excuse is wearing thin tbh - are we expected to believe Ireland is geographically unique in having the only border in the world with porous bits and houses/farms technically on both sides?

Landlocked countries were able to control better than the Irish republic did.

And as for 45,000 people flying into Belfast and driving down do me a favour. Do we really not have the ability to deal with that when we have literally shut down counties?

And the border has feck all to do with people flying into Dublin, Cork, Shannon not being monitored during a mandated period of quarantine.

Bishop of hope

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Why could we not impose a strict quarantine?
Why could we not properly track and trace people?
Why were people resident in NI not bound by the lockdown rules south of the border in the 1st lockdown and possibly subsequent ones?

But but but the border excuse is wearing thin tbh - are we expected to believe Ireland is geographically unique in having the only border in the world with porous bits and houses/farms technically on both sides?

Landlocked countries were able to control better than the Irish republic did.

And as for 45,000 people flying into Belfast and driving down do me a favour. Do we really not have the ability to deal with that when we have literally shut down counties?

And the border has feck all to do with people flying into Dublin, Cork, Shannon not being monitored during a mandated period of quarantine.

Absolutely pointless unless you impose the same restrictions on the northen Ireland border.
They just go around Dublin etc.
I know this for a fact, so does everyone with an iota of knowledge of the northern border.
I'm watching it all my life and indeed used it many times myself for travel to the UK and home.

McMurphy

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Beats me, I suggested closing it off and was nearly shot by replies of all the crossing points by your fellow travellers.

Closing the border isn't remotely possible, but closing the air and sea ports to all but essential workers, and essential travel north and south should have been examined.

I don't believe our govt even discussed this as a potential UK/island of Ireland venture.

grayzer75

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Absolutely pointless unless you impose the same restrictions on the northen Ireland border.
They just go around Dublin etc.
I know this for a fact, so does everyone with an iota of knowledge of the northern border.
I'm watching it all my life and indeed used it many times myself for travel to the UK and home.

Sure the North / South ministerial council should've met in the late summer to come up with an island wide approach so it's the same restrictions all over so there's no benefit hopping the border to avoid restrictions. The only time anybody should be travelling at the moment is for essential purposes.

Bishop of hope

McMurphy wrote: »

Closing the border isn't remotely possible, but closing the air and sea ports to all but essential workers, and essential travel north and south should have been examined.

I don't believe our govt even discussed this as a potential UK/island of Ireland venture.

Probably no Mc, but you know the unionists particularly the DUP wouldn't agree with the UK one, SF the other.

Wesekn.

How much of a factor is returning emigrants and cross border travel here

Is there any actual data available

Bishop of hope

grayzer75 wrote: »

Sure the North / South ministerial council should've met in the late summer to come up with an island wide approach so it's the same restrictions all over so there's no benefit hopping the border to avoid restrictions. The only time anybody should be travelling at the moment is for essential purposes.

Th same answer as to Mc.

FreudianSlippers

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Why could we not impose a strict quarantine?
Why could we not properly track and trace people?
Why were people resident in NI not bound by the lockdown rules south of the border in the 1st lockdown and possibly subsequent ones?

But but but the border excuse is wearing thin tbh - are we expected to believe Ireland is geographically unique in having the only border in the world with porous bits and houses/farms technically on both sides?

Landlocked countries were able to control better than the Irish republic did.

And as for 45,000 people flying into Belfast and driving down do me a favour. Do we really not have the ability to deal with that when we have literally shut down counties?

And the border has feck all to do with people flying into Dublin, Cork, Shannon not being monitored during a mandated period of quarantine.

I do suspect you already know the answers to your question was that there was no agreement from the DUP to do anything that would separate NI from GB on a policy perspective at the time almost a year ago or now. I think it's fair to say, as other posters have, that it's moot if people can travel in through the North... which they are.

FreudianSlippers

Wesekn. wrote: »

How much of a factor is returning emigrants and cross border travel here

Is there any actual data available

I'm open to correction on this, but I don't recall seeing figures specifically broken down - nor do I think we are capable of doing so as our track-and-trace system is effectively non-existent.


EDIT: I appear to be correct here, "travel abroad" seems to be their only metric and it's slim to none. I expect a lot of what you're talking about is being deemed "community transmission" where it cannot be proven that the individual contracted COVID-19 abroad.
Source: https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/detailed-profile-of-cases

Bannasidhe

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Absolutely pointless unless you impose the same restrictions on the northen Ireland border.
They just go around Dublin etc.
I know this for a fact, so does everyone with an iota of knowledge of the northern border.
I'm watching it all my life and indeed used it many times myself for travel to the UK and home.

And yet when Foot and Mouth broke out...

Fri, Feb 23, 2001, 00:00

A major security operation continues today along the border and at ports to prevent the spread of foot-and-mouth disease into Ireland.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/border-sealed-as-foot-and-mouth-campaign-intensifies-1.375434

In February/March 2001 there was an outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease in south Armagh, beside the-then not-just-as-hard border.

It was part of a foot-and-mouth outbreak that had begun in Britain in February of the same year. Overnight a hard border, a hard economic border, descended - one that the Republic of Ireland brought down like an iron curtain over the not-just-so-hard border.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/want-to-know-what-a-hard-border-looks-like-the-2001-foot-and-mouth-crisis-holds-the-key-37824268.html

When the political will is there it's amazing what can be done. It's not only possible to close the border - it's been done before.

See... that's why I'm not buying "but but the border..." -

Bannasidhe

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I do suspect you already know the answers to your question was that there was no agreement from the DUP to do anything that would separate NI from GB on a policy perspective at the time almost a year ago or now. I think it's fair to say, as other posters have, that it's moot if people can travel in through the North... which they are.

Which does not answer the question why those who did fly into the Republic were not properly monitored and there were no legal repercussions for failing to isolate.

All I am seeing is handing waving and "but the border" as if that means "sure there's no point tracking and tracing so like.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

Just when you thought you couldn't any more Trumpian, you come out with this...

You have zero proof that this 'lad' was paid. ZERO!
Stop bull****ting people with your conspiracy-laden inane posts.

It's an opinion. I said 'must be'.


You are showing with this comment the epitome of Trumpism.
Faux outrage over an opinion you don't like.

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

You'd get 55 headbangers anywhere. Sure look at all the folk that complained about rte and the religious skit. The fact they had to mention support emails to a national newspaper and there was so little it was countable is mortifying.

It's the equivalent of man with two pints

Cluedo Monopoly

Mother and Baby Report finally published.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/d4b3d-final-report-of-the-commission-of-investigation-into-mother-and-baby-homes/?referrer=http://www.gov.ie/report/

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

I think it was Tony Holohan (remember him, you know the guy you keep telling us to listen to) on television yesterday who blamed ordinary people shopping and socialising for the rise in cases.

I suppose he is wrong now.

Of course it was. Did you think Leo, Michael and Eamo were going door to door licking peoples faces?
People were allowed shop, told they could socialise, so they did.
I don't care how you try spin it; Worst. In. The. World.
How about revisiting all you claimed was SF's fault up north. Have a think about it.

James Brown

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Mother and Baby Report finally published.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/d4b3d-final-report-of-the-commission-of-investigation-into-mother-and-baby-homes/?referrer=http://www.gov.ie/report/

I hope the institutions and people who profited are named and shamed. I would love to see all the victims who wish to do so, get some form of airtime. Another FF/FG mealy mouthed apology isn't going to do much IMO.
The victims must be recognised, apologised to and institutions held accountable.
Monstrous state sanctioned criminality.

FrancieBrady

Bowie wrote: »

I hope the institutions and people who profited are named and shamed. I would love to see all the victims who wish to do so, get some form of airtime. Another FF/FG mealy mouthed apology isn't going to do much IMO.
The victims must be recognised, apologised to and institutions held accountable.
Monstrous state sanctioned criminality.

They are actually having to plead with Martin NOT to make an apology until the report is digested and widely discussed.

Of course we can only guess why Martin wants to draw a line under it quickly, can't we? Despicable really.

Floppybits

I see Varadkar has restored the whip to those Senators it was removed from for golfgate. Sneaky move to do it today when all the attention is on the Mother and Baby Homes report. Says everything about Varadkar.

Cluedo Monopoly

Bowie wrote: »

I hope the institutions and people who profited are named and shamed. I would love to see all the victims who wish to do so, get some form of airtime. Another FF/FG mealy mouthed apology isn't going to do much IMO.
The victims must be recognised, apologised to and institutions held accountable.
Monstrous state sanctioned criminality.

We know some of the names...

Religious Orders made a lot of money including Bon Secours who have many assets in Ireland.
GlaxosmithKline (Vaccine trials and Milk Powder trials)

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Nobody tries to shut down criticism of FG/LV more than yourself. The covid rates were raised you pointed up north and to SF. The PR spin article was commented on, you've spent pages dismissing the claims.

I think FG supporters have a voice. Some of us don't have a team and want to talk issues as they arise. Today it's covid numbers and a biased spin article. Personally I'm more interested in the issues.

I don't shut down criticism of FG or Leo Varadkar. There are legitimate reasons to criticise this current government on Covid-19, including a failure to look at closing the border with Northern Ireland ala Foot and Mouth, and the failure to stand up to the teacher unions about keeping primary schools open for kids with special needs, for example.

I don't see any of that legitimate criticism on here. I see posters parrotting stuff they see on Twitter and Facebook, I see other posters who have Leo haunting their dreams at night, I see refusals to contextualise the performance of the government by comparison to our nearest neighbours, I see people who think that reporting facts is PR spin, all of which is silliness and I will call it out each and every time. Drivel isn't criticism, I won't pretend that it is, I will just call it drivel.

Get into real criticism of this government - failure to increase LPT, failure to bring back water charges, failure to move quicker on environmental retrofit, failure to reform planning to allow higher density, failure to address building standards that make us the most expensive place in the world to build etc - and I will support you.

The most astonishing thing about the governmental finances over the last year is that income tax didn't go down despite the huge numbers of job losses, proving the point that it is high earners and high earners alone, who pay income tax and that low-to-middle income earners have the best income tax arrangement in Europe. That needs to change as everyone should pay some amount of income tax to show that the state is their responsibility as well. Again, I don't see you criticising that.

I am happy to talk issues but when people post drivel like this they can't expect responses based on the issues:

It's the equivalent of man with two pints

You are showing with this comment the epitome of Trumpism.
Faux outrage over an opinion you don't like.

I take it we'll see all the same sentiment shipped up north over the past several months visited on FF/FG/Greens by the same genuine concerned posters....

I find it troubling that you accused me of an online campaign against Roderic O'Gorman with zero evidence, refused to accept it never happened and are trying to pass comment on the perspective of others.

All of that is directed at other posters, hasn't a single mention of any issue, so why would anyone respond to you on an "issue" when all you post is stuff like that?

blanch152

Floppybits wrote: »

I see Varadkar has restored the whip to those Senators it was removed from for golfgate. Sneaky move to do it today when all the attention is on the Mother and Baby Homes report. Says everything about Varadkar.

Those in positions of responsibility such as Calleary, who knew from sitting around Cabinet about the new restrictions were right to resign, ditto Hogan for misleading the EU Commission President (and should have been joined by Michelle O'Neill and Mary-Lou for the Storey funeral) but the rest of them should not have any lasting sanction.

Floppybits

blanch152 wrote: »

Those in positions of responsibility such as Calleary, who knew from sitting around Cabinet about the new restrictions were right to resign, ditto Hogan for misleading the EU Commission President (and should have been joined by Michelle O'Neill and Mary-Lou for the Storey funeral) but the rest of them should not have any lasting sanction.

If it was all ok then why didn't he do it on another day instead of trying to bury it under the Mother and Baby homes report? It says everything about him that he would use an occasion such as release of the mother and baby homes report to do something like this. He is nothing but a coward.

grayzer75

Floppybits wrote: »

If it was all ok then why didn't he do it on another day instead of trying to bury it under the Mother and Baby homes report? It says everything about him that he would use an occasion such as release of the mother and baby homes report to do something like this. He is nothing but a coward.

100% correct.

He'll probably try to blame SF for the mother and baby homes as well the slimey sh*t.

FrancieBrady

Floppybits wrote: »

If it was all ok then why didn't he do it on another day instead of trying to bury it under the Mother and Baby homes report? It says everything about him that he would use an occasion such as release of the mother and baby homes report to do something like this. He is nothing but a coward.

It's classic cynical governance. Leo wouldn't be the first to do it, but you are right, it is straight up his street to do it, too.