FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

Floppybits

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's classic cynical governance. Leo wouldn't be the first to do it, but you are right, it is straight up his street to do it, too.

Probably laughed as well while doing it.

Brendan Bendar

Floppybits wrote: »

I see Varadkar has restored the whip to those Senators it was removed from for golfgate. Sneaky move to do it today when all the attention is on the Mother and Baby Homes report. Says everything about Varadkar.

Where’s Stanno these days?

Still chair of that big committee, is he ?.Or did MaryLou request a step down.

Any news on the black and white minstrels up in Belfast.....says everything, I say, says everything.

Floppybits

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Where’s Stanno these days?

Still chair of that big committee, is he ?.Or did MaryLou request a step down.

Any news on the black and white minstrels up in Belfast.....says everything, I say, says everything.

Varadkar was being his sneaky cowardly self today, it has nothing what so ever to with SF but yet there you go again beating that tired worn out drum. Change the tune FG are no different from SF if you ask me.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't shut down criticism of FG or Leo Varadkar. There are legitimate reasons to criticise this current government on Covid-19, including a failure to look at closing the border with Northern Ireland ala Foot and Mouth, and the failure to stand up to the teacher unions about keeping primary schools open for kids with special needs, for example.

I don't see any of that legitimate criticism on here. I see posters parrotting stuff they see on Twitter and Facebook, I see other posters who have Leo haunting their dreams at night, I see refusals to contextualise the performance of the government by comparison to our nearest neighbours, I see people who think that reporting facts is PR spin, all of which is silliness and I will call it out each and every time. Drivel isn't criticism, I won't pretend that it is, I will just call it drivel.

Get into real criticism of this government - failure to increase LPT, failure to bring back water charges, failure to move quicker on environmental retrofit, failure to reform planning to allow higher density, failure to address building standards that make us the most expensive place in the world to build etc - and I will support you.

The most astonishing thing about the governmental finances over the last year is that income tax didn't go down despite the huge numbers of job losses, proving the point that it is high earners and high earners alone, who pay income tax and that low-to-middle income earners have the best income tax arrangement in Europe. That needs to change as everyone should pay some amount of income tax to show that the state is their responsibility as well. Again, I don't see you criticising that.

I am happy to talk issues but when people post drivel like this they can't expect responses based on the issues:




All of that is directed at other posters, hasn't a single mention of any issue, so why would anyone respond to you on an "issue" when all you post is stuff like that?

All criticsm is explained and valid. The problem is you don't like it and that's okay. Trying to personalise or spin it is your hang up. Just look at your fevered tone here. You are quoting responses to yourself and another seeming to take valid criticism personally by often spinning. The first is my estimation of the 55 emails. Part of a story, possibly genuine, of little consequence other than to help Varadkar's image.

James Brown

I'm paraphrasing; Michael Martin just said we are all complicit in the mother babies homes etc. Nice way to dodge government, FF/FG government, state support for institutions and criminality many if not most of the general public knew nothing about.
Be refreshing and honest if he spoke on behalf of Fianna Fail's involvement.

Floppybits

Bowie wrote: »

The first is my estimation of the 55 emails. Part of a story, possibly genuine, of little consequence other than to help Varadkar's image.

Nothing but a standard marketing practice that is all that is. You see all the time in ads "Our shampoo was approved by 90% of users" and then you see in the small text at the bottom " this was based on a survey of 50 users" or some such nonsense.

Floppybits

Bowie wrote: »

I'm paraphrasing; Michael Martin just said we are all complicit in the mother babies homes etc. Nice way to dodge government, FF/FG government, state support for institutions and criminality many if not most of the general public knew nothing about.

Unfortunately what he said is an ugly truth of this country and is something that we as a country need to face up to. Yes FF, FG and the state were up to their eyeballs in this but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't we face up to the fact that we allowed this to happen and not only allowed it to happen but still keep those parties in power.

FrancieBrady

Floppybits wrote: »

Unfortunately what he said is an ugly truth of this country and is something that we as a country need to face up to. Yes FF, FG and the state were up to their eyeballs in this but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't we face up to the fact that we allowed this to happen and not only allowed it to happen but still keep those parties in power.

The public have more than faced up to it. In vote after vote we have separated church and state more and more and supported measures to ensure it never happens again.

What is despicable is the delay in proper redress for the victims. Yeh, stand on the steps of the Dáil for photo ops with selctive victims that can do you political good, but ignore all those damaged and destroyed by the state and institutions and branches of the state, again and again and again. Sickening to listen to the hollow words from hollow men and women.

James Brown

Floppybits wrote: »

Unfortunately what he said is an ugly truth of this country and is something that we as a country need to face up to. Yes FF, FG and the state were up to their eyeballs in this but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't we face up to the fact that we allowed this to happen and not only allowed it to happen but still keep those parties in power.

Agreed. Can you point to a FF or FG leader accepting their party's role? I can't.
Smacks of 'We all partied', 'we all went mad'.

No family I know sent a Garda, Doctor and Priest to forcibly remove a pregnant rape victim from her home, incarcerate her, physically and verbally abuse her and run vaccine trials on her after selling her baby, all nice and legal.

smurgen

Bowie wrote: »

Agreed. Can you point to a FF or FG leader accepting their party's role? I can't.
Smacks of 'We all partied', 'we all went mad'.

No family I know sent a Garda, Doctor and Priest to forcibly remove a pregnant rape victim from her home, incarcerate her, physically and verbally abuse her and run vaccine trials on her after selling her baby, all nice and legal.

Don't worry we'll all be complicit in direct provision and homelessness in time.

mattser

blanch152 wrote: »

I think it was Tony Holohan (remember him, you know the guy you keep telling us to listen to) on television yesterday who blamed ordinary people shopping and socialising for the rise in cases.

I suppose he is wrong now.

Mike Ryan from WHO, taking the same line as Tony Holohan.
Awful men altogether, blaming the people.
Don't they know the real experts in the field are right here on Boards.
All day. Every day. Great service.

Muahahaha

Bowie wrote: »

I'm paraphrasing; Michael Martin just said we are all complicit in the mother babies homes etc. Nice way to dodge government, FF/FG government, state support for institutions and criminality many if not most of the general public knew nothing about.
Be refreshing and honest if he spoke on behalf of Fianna Fail's involvement.

I heard that on the radio earlier and I couldnt believe my ears. Martin seems to think society at large is to blame and not FF-FG who handed the keys of the country over to the Catholic Church so they could kiss the bishops ring. These two parties really dont do personal responsibility for their actions and instead want to blame all of us. Its straight out of the 'we all partied' playbook.

Bannasidhe

Floppybits wrote: »

I see Varadkar has restored the whip to those Senators it was removed from for golfgate. Sneaky move to do it today when all the attention is on the Mother and Baby Homes report. Says everything about Varadkar.

It also says sure don't worry about those covid "guidelines" and taking personal responsibility.
Wee stint on the naughty step and we'll say no more about it.

As for that report - the consensus among survivors and those who have advocated for them is it states "baby fathers and women's families = bad, Church and State = did their best but sure lookit, it was a different time."

James Brown

mattser wrote: »

Mike Ryan from WHO, taking the same line as Tony Holohan.
Awful men altogether, blaming the people.
Don't they know the real experts in the field are right here on Boards.
All day. Every day. Great service.

Funny how when things looked like they were in hand it was FF/FG/Greens, now it's worst in the world, we get little quips willfully 'misunderstanding' how the virus was always transmitted, by people.

FF/FG/Greens cherry picked the advice they chose to relay and follow. The people acted within those constraints. It's now the worst in the world. Do the math.

Political lies about the UK/African variant being the cause were disputed directly by Ryan.

FrancieBrady

mattser wrote: »

Mike Ryan from WHO, taking the same line as Tony Holohan.
Awful men altogether, blaming the people.
Don't they know the real experts in the field are right here on Boards.
All day. Every day. Great service.

Mike Ryan said it was opening up to increased gatherings and mixing...the government facilitated that.

As said, you cannot tell people it is ok to increase their amount of interactions and then whine when they do.
Had retail and hospitality been restricted the vast majority would have complied.

McMurphy

mattser wrote: »

Mike Ryan from WHO, taking the same line as Tony Holohan.
Awful men altogether, blaming the people.
Don't they know the real experts in the field are right here on Boards.
All day. Every day. Great service.

Scutter - Ryan said it was people socialising and shopping etc, something the govt were warned shouldn't happen, they could pick one or the other, not both, and obviously when govt cabinet ministers where wheeled out to give false impressions about safety

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1335889689786650625?s=09


- the end result can be seen by everyone.

smurgen

McMurphy wrote: »

Scutter - Ryan said it was people socialising and shopping etc, something the govt were warned shouldn't happen, they could pick one or the other, not both, and obviously when govt cabinet ministers where wheeled out to give false impressions about safety

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1335889689786650625?s=09

- the end result can be seen by everyone.

Sure FG put their three senators back to work today after the golf pissup. On the day 46 more covid related deaths are announced. It's clear they have no regard for the guidelines. A terrible example for the public.

Fann Linn

Muahahaha wrote: »

I heard that on the radio earlier and I couldnt believe my ears. Martin seems to think society at large is to blame and not FF-FG who handed the keys of the country over to the Catholic Church so they could kiss the bishops ring. These two parties really dont do personal responsibility for their actions and instead want to blame all of us. Its straight out of the 'we all partied' playbook.

David McCulliagh nailed it on 6.1. 'Blame everyone so no one can be held to blame'

TheValeyard

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Mike Ryan said it was opening up to increased gatherings and mixing...the government facilitated that.

As said, you cannot tell people it is ok to increase their amount of interactions and then whine when they do.
Had retail and hospitality been restricted the vast majority would have complied.

Yeah, cant tell a dog to jump up and sit still at the same time. You just confuse the poor dog. People were treated the way.

smurgen

I genuinely think that in light of the now record levels of covid in Ireland those senators should have been fired. It's items like the golf pissup that have leaf people to shrug off the dangers of covid. If our alleged betters and those writing the laws are flouting the rules well joe public was obviously not going to listen. A terrible terrible message to send out.

smurgen

Just 10 months too late. Maybe we'll get mandatory quarantine within the next ten months.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1349073203298267139?s=19

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

I genuinely think that in light of the now record levels of covid in Ireland those senators should have been fired. It's items like the golf pissup that have leaf people to shrug off the dangers of covid. If our alleged betters and those writing the laws are flouting the rules well joe public was obviously not going to listen. A terrible terrible message to send out.

They don't do accountability. It was for show.
Hogan will get a nice position with a party crony and I'm pretty sure Maria Bailey is owed for keeping quiet...after making an arse of herself.

FrancieBrady

A damming indictment of the power swap. We need it to end and reboot.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/474974287439601665/photo/1

smurgen

Good old Fine Gael. Sounds like it could have been written by some of the party die hards just yesterday. The old personal responsibility line was a weapon back then as it is now. Same line of argument blaming the victim.

https://twitter.com/electionlit/status/1349022800061878272?s=19

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

Good old Fine Gael. Sounds like it could have been written by some of the party die hards just yesterday. The old personal responsibility line was a weapon back then as it is now. Same line of argument blaming the victim.

https://twitter.com/electionlit/status/1349022800061878272?s=19

Covid in hand, pat on the back. Worst in the world? personal responsibility.

The state covering for and assisting the church and affiliates to imprison rape victims to lives of hard labour while selling on the babies weren't killed.
Still covering today unwilling to apologise or take accountability. As stated, if everyone is to blame, nobody is to blame. However personally sincere, as I'm sure it will be, MM's apology will be an empathy joke.
Thankfully Varadkar was hid in the Dail creche. We don't need his tuppence ha'penny of pretend empathy. No word from Eamo. Likely sleeping on it.

FrancieBrady

Bowie wrote: »

Covid in hand, pat on the back. Worst in the world? personal responsibility.

The state covering for and assisting the church and affiliates to imprison rape victims to lives of hard labour while selling on the babies weren't killed.
Still covering today unwilling to apologise or take accountability. As stated, if everyone is to blame, nobody is to blame. However personally sincere, as I'm sure it will be, MM's apology will be an empathy joke.
Thankfully Varadkar was hid in the Dail creche. We don't need his tuppence ha'penny of pretend empathy. No word from Eamo. Likely sleeping on it.

Sadly they didn't restrict his internet access. Getting torn a new one as some around here would say.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1349081999579951105

smurgen

Just remember Terry prone who helped manage the Tuam crisis message and lied on behalf of the nuns is regularly providing services to FG. Francis Fitzgerald paid her 55,000 eur over three years. Here's an email she sent on behalf of Bon Secours


"If you come here, you’ll find no mass grave, no evidence that children were ever so buried, and a local police force casting their eyes to heaven and saying “Yeah, a few bones were found – but this was an area where Famine victims were buried. So?”


https://www.thejournal.ie/terry-prone-email-tuam-babies-site-1721252-Oct2014/

James Brown

The FG/FF led Cork county Council deciding whether or not to allow apartments be built were bodies are believed to be buried on the Bessborough grounds is a nice touch.

major interest

Bowie wrote: »

The FG/FF led Cork county Council deciding whether or not to allow apartments be built were bodies are believed to be buried on the Bessborough grounds is a nice touch.

There’s a SHD application gone in to An Bord Pleanála for an area near Bessborough. Also separate proposal for the adjacent site which will have to go through standard planning via council (as it’s less than 100 units).

http://www.gatewayviewshd.ie/

RandomViewer

smurgen wrote: »

Just remember Terry prone who helped manage the Tuam crisis message and lied on behalf of the nuns is regularly providing services to FG. Francis Fitzgerald paid her 55,000 eur over three years. Here's an email she sent on behalf of Bon Secours


"If you come here, you’ll find no mass grave, no evidence that children were ever so buried, and a local police force casting their eyes to heaven and saying “Yeah, a few bones were found – but this was an area where Famine victims were buried. So?”


https://www.thejournal.ie/terry-prone-email-tuam-babies-site-1721252-Oct2014/

Her and the son permanent fixtures on RTE afternoon show and VM1 morning and evening shows,