FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

Or living in fear of an unmarried mother having a claim on their property.

So the imprisonment to a life of hard labour, of often rape victims, after having their babies sold is cancelled out? give over.
Can you comment on the state/government parties role before pointing over there?

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

A “zinger” is right Francie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pádraig_Mac_Lochlainn

Interesting background........ verrrrry interesting.............uhmmmm:cool:

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What is interesting you Brendi?

Mother of God Francie, you are not going to start dancing on the head of a pin this early surely

Do I have to spell everything out....... I give up.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A zinger from Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

Quote:
I am tired of the voices in Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil preaching to us about “learning our history” while insisting that the legacy of Michael Collins and Constance Markievicz is all THEIRS but that the legacy of the Mother and Baby Homes is all OURS.

A zinger eh whatever that is.
Sounds like more of the usual bull**** to me.
Everything bad is the govt or FG/FF fault, everything good is OURS.
It's so easy to motivate some people with a little nothing.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Quote:
I am tired of the voices in Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil preaching to us about “learning our history” while insisting that the legacy of Michael Collins and Constance Markievicz is all THEIRS but that the legacy of the Mother and Baby Homes is all OURS.

A zinger eh whatever that is.
Sounds like more of the usual bull**** to me.
Everything bad is the govt or FG/FF fault, everything good is OURS.
It's so easy to motivate some people with a little nothing.

That's FF/FG thinking TBH. Just look at the worst in the world Covid situation...or housing or child homelessness.
Did Gino's PBP facilitate the locking up of rape victims and selling their babies?

Triangle

Bowie wrote: »

Lady was on the radio asking why no mention of the Garda or FF/FG politicians who would have known and allowed it.

The report read it was state wide. I. E. Hospitals, gardai, church, society and government.
But hey, let's just focus on the point where you have a chip.
But focusing on one thing will just delay us in learning from past errors and fixing current issues. This report should be a kick up the ass for Ireland to do something about direct provision.

James Brown

Triangle wrote: »

The report read it was state wide. I. E. Hospitals, gardai, church, society and government.
But hey, let's just focus on the point where you have a chip.
But focusing on one thing will just delay us in learning from past errors and fixing current issues. This report should be a kick up the ass for Ireland to do something about direct provision.

Have I a chip on my shoulder over this? ****ing right I do.

I'm quoting a survivor asking why the Garda specifically were not mentioned. She was taken from her home 8 months pregnant by a Garda, a Priest and a Doctor. She specifically stated that the local FF/FG politicians were well aware and she's asking why MM said state and 'we' but not the Garda and politicians. Will you explain your chip or need to hand wave that away?

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Mother of God Francie, you are not going to start dancing on the head of a pin this early surely

Do I have to spell everything out....... I give up.

What is 'verrry interesting' you about his background Brendi, that would elicit an 'uhmmmm:cool:'

You will have to spell it out, because I do not know.

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

That's FF/FG thinking TBH. Just look at the worst in the world Covid situation...or housing or child homelessness.
Did Gino's PBP facilitate the locking up of rape victims and selling their babies?

No, but perhaps if you look back his mother and father and their wider families might have.
Don't know his story really and like the rest it's a sad indictment of the times he lived in no more than the rest.
There's a collective responsibility in all of this involving all our ancestors and some of us still. A lot of people are always happy to have scapegoats to hide what's in their own backyards.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

No, but perhaps if you look back his mother and father and their wider families might have.
Don't know his story really and like the rest it's a sad indictment of the times he lived in no more than the rest.
There's a collective responsibility in all of this involving all our ancestors and some of us still. A lot of people are always happy to have scapegoats to hide what's in their own backyards.

Depressing,

FF and FG are gonna weasel out of this one too aren't they? Make all the right noises for the faithful and quietly tramp all over survivors and the graves of the dead, if they were lucky enough to get a grave.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

No, but perhaps if you look back his mother and father and their wider families might have.
Don't know his story really and like the rest it's a sad indictment of the times he lived in no more than the rest.
There's a collective responsibility in all of this involving all our ancestors and some of us still. A lot of people are always happy to have scapegoats to hide what's in their own backyards.

I would not advocate for holding people responsible for what their parents or family may have done regarding this. We'd lose most of FF and FG.
There is a collective responsibility but we need the institutions of the church, it's various orders, the Garda and political parties to openly take accountability and apologise.
As regards 'scapegoats', I don't want MM blanket apologising for my family when he won't apologise for his own political party or the Garda.

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

I would not advocate for holding people responsible for what their parents or family may have done regarding this. We'd lose most of FF and FG.
There is a collective responsibility but we need the institutions of the church, it's various orders, the Garda and political parties to openly take accountability and apologise.
As regards 'scapegoats', I don't want MM blanket apologising for my family when he won't apologise for his own political party or the Garda.

You're after blood, good luck.

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Depressing,

FF and FG are gonna weasel out of this one too aren't they? Make all the right noises for the faithful and quietly tramp all over survivors and the graves of the dead, if they were lucky enough to get a grave.

MM and the rest in FF/FG will give a sigh of relief that the worst is over for them. Why would they follow through on recommendations, they generally don't.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

You're after blood, good luck.

Did you read what you quoted? Accountability on behalf of the institutions involved.

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

Did you read what you quoted? Accountability on behalf of the institutions involved.

They've been held accountable and all found guilty as charged.

SmokyMo

Imagine how immoral of a human you must be, to vote or even stand in a vicinity next to FF or FG after all this... Just on this alone. Never mind the ongoing multiple crises they caused.

Same goes for catholic clergy.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

They've been held accountable and all found guilty as charged.

Yeh, 'accountability' for them but we the taxpayer paid 80% of the 'account' so far.

That's great accountability there Bish. :rolleyes:

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

They've been held accountable and all found guilty as charged.

Have they? 'We', 'the state'? We had a royal 'we' blamed. We need institutions to take accountability and apologise IMO.
And what consequences are there?

SmokyMo wrote: »

Imagine how immoral of a human you must be, to vote or even stand in a vicinity next to FF or FG after all this... Just on this alone. Never mind the ongoing multiple crises they caused.

Same goes for catholic clergy.

Up to very recently FF/FG enabled the church in covering up criminality. FF/FG still will not accept and apologise for that. That's what they need do. Also they should have follow through on promises and recommendations. I doubt they will and if that is the case that is on them there today.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Depressing,

FF and FG are gonna weasel out of this one too aren't they? Make all the right noises for the faithful and quietly tramp all over survivors and the graves of the dead, if they were lucky enough to get a grave.

When are the bogs and the sandy sea shores being trawled for the bodies of the disappeared?

When are those left crippled by ‘kneecapping’ getting redress.

Any time soon......?

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

That's FF/FG thinking TBH. Just look at the worst in the world Covid situation...or housing or child homelessness.
Did Gino's PBP facilitate the locking up of rape victims and selling their babies?

No, but there are probably ancestors of Gino who did facilitate the locking up of rape victims and selling their babies.

Given the scale of the numbers involved, there isn't a family in Ireland who over the last 100 years didn't see it happening to a member of the family, or a friend or neighbour and who stayed silent and did nothing. We do all share the blame on this one.

The using of victims for political purposes by Boyd-Barrett and the like over the last couple of days has been nothing short of disgusting.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Have they? 'We', 'the state'? We had a royal 'we' blamed. We need institutions to take accountability and apologise IMO.
And what consequences are there?



Up to very recently FF/FG enabled the church in covering up criminality. FF/FG still will not accept and apologise for that. That's what they need do. Also they should have follow through on promises and recommendations. I doubt they will and if that is the case that is on them there today.

We, the people, are the State. Which bit of that is so hard to understand?

The State isn't FF and FG politicians, no matter how many times you try to pretend it is. The State is all of us.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

When are the bogs and the sandy sea shores being trawled for the bodies of the disappeared?

When are those left crippled by ‘kneecapping’ getting redress.

Any time soon......?

Ah, you wish to add what was done in a war and conflict to the debate, what a surprise that turned out to be. A conflict/war that the speaker wasn't involved in...does that apply to what FF and FG did when they were at war and conflict too, can we put the sins of the father on current members heads too?

By the way, just to keep you up to date, the ICVLR have said they believe the IRA have done all they can to help locate the remains of those killed in a conflict/war.

Can FF FG say the same about their transparency and willingness to put right the wrongs of the past?
I don't think SF are kneecapping anybody, have you a link to any info on this?

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah, you wish to add what was done in a war and conflict to the debate, what a surprise that turned out to be. A conflict/war that the speaker wasn't involved in...does that apply to what FF and FG did when they were at war and conflict too, can we put the sins of the father on current members heads too?

By the way, just to keep you up to date, the ICVLR have said they believe the IRA have done all they can to help locate the remains of those killed in a conflict/war.

Can FF FG say the same about their transparency and willingness to put right the wrongs of the past?
I don't think SF are kneecapping anybody, have you a link to any info on this?

Do you:D

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Do you:D

I figured it would be something cryptic rather than address anything. Thanks for the quick reply.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

No, but there are probably ancestors of Gino who did facilitate the locking up of rape victims and selling their babies.

Given the scale of the numbers involved, there isn't a family in Ireland who over the last 100 years didn't see it happening to a member of the family, or a friend or neighbour and who stayed silent and did nothing. We do all share the blame on this one.

The using of victims for political purposes by Boyd-Barrett and the like over the last couple of days has been nothing short of disgusting.

Do you advocate for holding people responsible for the actions of their family? I don't. However if you sign up to an organisation with previous involvement the leaders are free to apologise on the part their institution played.

It's likely a high enough number. We should consider the weight the church carried and the authority allowed and supported by the Garda and state.
We can hold the German public accountable to some extent for the death camps but it was the Nazi party I'd expect to apologise if they still existed, (is there a German equivalent of Fine Gael?).

TBF, you engage in worse on a regular basis. RBB is commenting on a current discussion not wedging in a specific victim to score points in an unrelated political debate.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

We, the people, are the State. Which bit of that is so hard to understand?

The State isn't FF and FG politicians, no matter how many times you try to pretend it is. The State is all of us.

What part of 'specifically mention the Garda and politicians' do you not comprehend?

We all share a blame. Do you think the institutions should apologise or not?
How do you feel about the whole thing? You've not commented other than to try shut others down IMO.

smurgen

Imagine the we all knew point holds no water. The extent of the abuse was not widely know. There's been cover up after cover up. If society knew what was happening the gritty details then tell me this. How come even now in Bessborough we don't know where the bodies are?

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

Imagine the we all knew point holds no water. The extent of the abuse was not widely know. There's been cover up after cover up. If society knew what was happening the gritty details then tell me this. How come even now in Bessborough we don't know where the bodies are?

Likely the Garda, local politician and priest knew. The selling of babies was state sanctioned with Garda often helping the priest take the baby.
The victims would prefer apologies from the Garda, religious orders and politicians on the part their institutions played. They've been saying so on the radio all day.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah, you wish to add what was done in a war and conflict to the debate, what a surprise that turned out to be. A conflict/war that the speaker wasn't involved in...does that apply to what FF and FG did when they were at war and conflict too, can we put the sins of the father on current members heads too?

By the way, just to keep you up to date, the ICVLR have said they believe the IRA have done all they can to help locate the remains of those killed in a conflict/war.

Can FF FG say the same about their transparency and willingness to put right the wrongs of the past?
I don't think SF are kneecapping anybody, have you a link to any info on this?

Martin apologised for the Mother and Baby House wrongs. Still waiting on Gerry, Mary-Lou and Michelle to apologise for all the wrongs committed by the PIRA.

Cluedo Monopoly

I put the blame for the Mother and Baby home scandal mainly on the church and I didn't really want to politicise it.
However I think the report and the government response yesterday will really backfire on FFG. They are the State essentially from 1920s to 2021. They oversaw the darkest periods of our new country. Martin's attempt to put disproportionate blame on 'society' could really come back to haunt them. Now more than ever people will see that we need to get away from the FFG stranglehold.
Catherine Connolly, whom I hugely respect, called the response yesterday repulsive.

The Independent TD for Galway West, Catherine Connolly, has said she finds it "incomprehensible" how the Commission drew a conclusion that there was no evidence any woman was forced by the Church or State to enter a Mother and Baby Home.

She said: "Either we believe the women or we don't. If we don't believe them, we are adding utter hurt to what they always feared - they wouldn't be believed."

The deputy said: "The inconsistencies in this report are nothing short of shocking. The writing is unprofessional and amateurish in parts."

The Galway West TD said she found the narrative in the report "repulsive."

Indep TD @catherinegalway said survivors of Mother and Baby Homes didn't get the Commission report before the public - as promised by the Govt. Instead they got access to a webinar, to be told the Govts view, & were then told they could download a 3,000 page report

Again they have handled this appallingly. This one will be remembered.

smurgen

It's like right now do we see rte inside the direct provision centers videoing condition. Sure we know it's bad but are the gritty details spread on six o clock news? If they were the calls to close it would get louder.