FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

FreudianSlippers

blanch152 wrote: »

This government could be in power for ten years, that is the real legacy of Mary-Lou's complete failure to get even one party to agree to enter coalition with her.

IMHO the only way that will happen is if the fear of SF in power keeps FF/FG working together. I just don't see this happy families deal lasting a full term though.

Idbatterim

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Even given FF's technically "at the wheel" at the moment, I'm surprised FG have come out on top here given the seemingly never-ending negative PR about FG and Leo in particular. That being said, I don't see any real prospect of either FF or FG looking to bring down this government on those figures.

I expect fg will be down a good chunk come next election time, the cloud cuckoo land being financed by tens of billions now, that many are enjoying, will be a distant memory and it will be budget cuts most likely or at least even if budgets frozen declining living standards for many. Also throw in housing crisis worse than ever

Bannasidhe

blanch152 wrote: »

Most of the communications are by text, rather than phone call.

As for doing the right thing, he would have stayed in Switzerland if he was doing the right thing.

Neither text nor phone call did he receive.

Gosh - he should have stayed in Switzerland should he? When could he come home Blanch? If he flew via Brazil would it have been ok?
Should every single Irish citizen and resident who happened to be out of the country have stayed put?

At least he didn't go Xmas shopping like the Minister for Agriculture but who are we to judge eh Blanch?

FreudianSlippers

Idbatterim wrote: »

I expect fg will be down a good chunk come next election time, the cloud cuckoo land being financed by tens of billions now, that many are enjoying, will be a distant memory and it will be budget cuts most likely or at least even if budgets frozen declining living standards for many. Also throw in housing crisis worse than ever

Well, this kind of assumes that FF/FG employ a procyclical fiscal policy, which I wouldn't necessarily agree with. Sure... economies expand and contrast and a prudent fiscal policy considers that, but I've always considered Irish fiscal policy (post Celtic Tiger obviously) to be almost countercyclical. What you call "cloud cuckoo land" is on the back of strong economic positioning despite a global pandemic and I'd be suggesting we increase spending and reduce taxation further to fuel further growth - if we borrow and spend on things like infrastructure we can actually lay a foundation of sustainable economic growth and pad ourselves for the next major economic contraction.

If we were really doing that, we'd be borrowing and buildings massive amounts of houses, metros, trains, roads, hospitals, schools... Instead we have armchair economists (not directed at you btw) who are still to traumatized by the last crash that out economic policy seems to be "do absolutely nothing and wait for the next crash"

blanch152

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Neither text nor phone call did he receive.

Gosh - he should have stayed in Switzerland should he? When could he come home Blanch? If he flew via Brazil would it have been ok?
Should every single Irish citizen and resident who happened to be out of the country have stayed put?

At least he didn't go Xmas shopping like the Minister for Agriculture but who are we to judge eh Blanch?

The clear advice from government was not to come home - that was the right thing to do. I know very many people who didn't travel home - they did the right thing.

Now, I fully understand that for a lot of people coming home for Christmas was important to them, and had personal reasons for doing so, but it can't be claimed that they did the right thing.

I have no issue with your brother coming home if that is what he wanted to do, my issue is with the claim that he did the right thing. There is enough work for the contact and trace and monitor team dealing with truck drivers and other essential services, without having to deal with others.

Bannasidhe

blanch152 wrote: »

The clear advice from government was not to come home - that was the right thing to do. I know very many people who didn't travel home - they did the right thing.

Now, I fully understand that for a lot of people coming home for Christmas was important to them, and had personal reasons for doing so, but it can't be claimed that they did the right thing.

I have no issue with your brother coming home if that is what he wanted to do, my issue is with the claim that he did the right thing. There is enough work for the contact and trace and monitor team dealing with truck drivers and other essential services, without having to deal with others.

Nah mate.
You are being judgy.

You have absolutely no idea why he had to come home and have decided it was 'for Christmas' - even though I stated he had been trying since Dec 10th - for all you know he is an essential worker.
You obviously do have an issue with him coming home, but strangely none with a minister going shopping while waiting for the results of a test.

And don't even with the BS about 'enough to do with truck drivers' bs, honestly soon you will have scraped right through the bottom of that barrel even from atop your high horse.
We have been listening to how it doesn't work due to "unprecedented" blah blah since lockdown #1.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

The clear advice from government was not to come home - that was the right thing to do. I know very many people who didn't travel home - they did the right thing.

Now, I fully understand that for a lot of people coming home for Christmas was important to them, and had personal reasons for doing so, but it can't be claimed that they did the right thing.

I have no issue with your brother coming home if that is what he wanted to do, my issue is with the claim that he did the right thing. There is enough work for the contact and trace and monitor team dealing with truck drivers and other essential services, without having to deal with others.

They don't deal with truck drivers as they are exempt and allowed to move freely in and out of Ireland along with maritime and aviation workers.

Bannasidhe

grayzer75 wrote: »

They don't deal with truck drivers as they are exempt and allowed to move freely in and out of Ireland along with maritime and aviation workers.

Ah don't be spoiling his righteous indignation with your factual information.
It's vital my brother's motives be questioned to distract from all the people flying in from the U.K and Brazil who then saunter freely through the gap.

FrancieBrady

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ah don't be spoiling his righteous indignation with your factual information.
It's vital my brother's motives be questioned to distract from all the people flying in from the U.K and Brazil who then saunter freely through the gap.

Perish the thought that those tasked with monitoring would stand before the court of blanch.

Brendan Bendar

Any news on the lads who went apeshït in the wettie in Kilmacrennan recently.

How was that kept well on the down-low .

Pearse......?

The Leeds lad.

Few lads went for a game of golf in Mayo and it was headline for the two weeks.


I don’t know what’s going on in this counthry.?

blanch152

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ah don't be spoiling his righteous indignation with your factual information.
It's vital my brother's motives be questioned to distract from all the people flying in from the U.K and Brazil who then saunter freely through the gap.

As I said, no issue with your brother coming home, just with the claim that he was doing the right thing.

IAMAMORON

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Neither text nor phone call did he receive.

Gosh - he should have stayed in Switzerland should he? When could he come home Blanch? If he flew via Brazil would it have been ok?
Should every single Irish citizen and resident who happened to be out of the country have stayed put?

At least he didn't go Xmas shopping like the Minister for Agriculture but who are we to judge eh Blanch?

You have no argument now because the reality is that you own family ignored government advice. It sounds hypocritical to be honest.

Listen to what you are saying.

" My brother ignored government advice, travelled from a foreign country riddled with a pandemic " ... but then it becomes the governments fault?

Get a grip.

Topgear on Dave

Even if they were ringing up people, what good would it do.

I could be sinking pints in a Kerry shebeen and telling the tracer on the line I'm isolating in a Dublin airport hotel.

No wonder they don't bother ringing, its a waste of their time.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Any news on the lads who went apeshït in the wettie in Kilmacrennan recently.

How was that kept well on the down-low .

Pearse......?

The Leeds lad.

Few lads went for a game of golf in Mayo and it was headline for the two weeks.


I don’t know what’s going on in this counthry.?

Another golf outing, in this weather?

IAMAMORON

Deleted User wrote: »

people are returning home from abraod to live...i know a good few,some close relatives....none received anyword from landing to end of their self isolation



This track and trace at the airports isnt working,and only a half baked,box-ticking exercise,with no practical sucess,or application

54,000 or so,went through dublin airport,how many were contacted within 7 days of returning

Surely that is an issue for the DAA?

Going online to blame the government for the actions of an airport authority sounds like mud slinging to me?

grayzer75

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Surely that is an issue for the DAA?

Going online to blame the government for the actions of an airport authority sounds like mud slinging to me?

TBF at a minimum the government should have made it mandatory to have a negative test prior to entering the country.

Topgear on Dave

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly we need a forced quarantine and do this on whole ireland basis

If you can get the North to go for it then I agree.

I know a few people who did quarantine in another country in Asia. The quarantine is basically being imprisoned in hotel room for a fortnight, with a huge fine if you set foot outside.

Its fairly harsh, I don't think it would be popular and the civil liberties types would probably sh*t the bed over it.

You probably need to get tight control over all the ferry crews and truck drivers too.

Fann Linn

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

If you can get the North to go for it then I agree.

I know a few people who did quarantine in another country in Asia. The quarantine is basically being imprisoned in hotel room for a fortnight, with a huge fine if you set foot outside.

Its fairly harsh, I don't think it would be popular and the civil liberties types would probably sh*t the bed over it.

You probably need to get tight control over all the ferry crews and truck drivers too.

My daughter was in Bahrain in Nov. She was tested, along with everyone else on the plane, when it landed. Bear in mind, she had to get a test prior to hopping on the Emirates plane in Dublin.

She had her test results back within 90 mins at the airport, but she and the others were all advised that if they failed they would be quarantined to a hotel for the two weeks.
Luckily she passed.

IAMAMORON

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

If you can get the North to go for it then I agree.

I know a few people who did quarantine in another country in Asia. The quarantine is basically being imprisoned in hotel room for a fortnight, with a huge fine if you set foot outside.

Its fairly harsh, I don't think it would be popular and the civil liberties types would probably sh*t the bed over it.

You probably need to get tight control over all the ferry crews and truck drivers too.

I wouldn't believe a word out of Asia, the entire continent have been lying about infections since the start.

This concept of turning the country off for 3 weeks is bollox of the highest order. It is the wailings of clueless cranks who don't have any decisions to make and who are not responsible for the repercussions of anything.

The biggest problem Ireland faces from Covid is the unsavoury tactic of turning the virus political and bouncing the governments' head against the wall every time they make a decision, it is guttersnipe. It is easy to run anything in hindsight.

What are you going to wipe you hole with and sugar your tea with if you impose a curfew? For starters. Stockpile of tampons somewhere is there? Are they going to drop the vaccine in via parachute, along with all the meds for diabetes, HIV and cancer? What are you planning in filling your car with for 3 weeks? Are you ready to forego your cornflakes as well?

grayzer75

Fann Linn wrote: »

My daughter was in Bahrain in Nov. She was tested, along with everyone else on the plane, when it landed. Bear in mind, she had to get a test prior to hopping on the Emirates plane in Dublin.

She had her test results back within 90 mins at the airport, but she and the others were all advised that if they failed they would be quarantined to a hotel for the two weeks.
Luckily she passed.

Truck drivers in the UK can get their lateral flow tests at designated service stations with results back in under 90 mins before proceeding to the ferry port or tunnel for onward travel to the continent.

IAMAMORON

grayzer75 wrote: »

TBF at a minimum the government should have made it mandatory to have a negative test prior to entering the country.

I am not happy with discussing wudda shudda cuddas tbh .

It is a separate argument.

What you think the government should have been doing does not really matter? It is what they were doing that counts.

A few online cranks , who all seem to have family that ignored government advice, didn't get tested and didn't get their phone call .... seemingly..... won't really do for me in any argument. It is mudsling and most of it is also lies.

Bannasidhe

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You have no argument now because the reality is that you own family ignored government advice. It sounds hypocritical to be honest.

Listen to what you are saying.

" My brother ignored government advice, travelled from a foreign country riddled with a pandemic " ... but then it becomes the governments fault?

Get a grip.

Grip yourself sweetheart.

Govt advice was not to travel unless it was essential.

9th Dec - brother began booking flights on 10th Dec.

Government has finally given a green light for Christmas foreign travel.

Travellers can come home for Christmas from abroad if they take precautions.

Family members living overseas have at last been thrown a lifeline from Leo Varadkar.

The Tánaiste has repeatedly said previously that he’d prefer if people didn’t come home, but he has softened his tone from a fortnight ago when he firmly told people to not book flights.

Speaking on Morning Ireland this morning, the Fine Gael leader said: “If people do travel, we do appreciate that is people’s choice and there may be individual people who have individual family circumstances that require them to travel, we do appreciate that.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-softens-christmas-23138698

ohmergawd - he went beyond the govt advice by getting a test before he travelled, a test on arrival, and the 5 day quarantine even though he had his neg results within 24 hrs...*gosh*

Mr Varadkar added: “So, if you’re coming from an amber light area, there are very few of them, make sure you have a test before you travel, a negative test.

“If you’re coming from a red area, which is pretty much everywhere at the moment, outside of Ireland and Iceland, we’re saying to people that if you’re coming, restrict your movements for the first five days until you get a test that’s negative on day five.”

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/health/ireland-christmas-travel-from-abroad-19424367

Honestly, limbo dancers would be impressed at how low the bar govt defenders will attempt to shimmy under - it's so low they don't even know what the govt advice they are defending was.


Now - would either Blanch or Moron care to comment on the Minister who didn't follow govt advice and went shopping? Since ya'll are feeling like condemning people.

grayzer75

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I am not happy with discussing wudda shudda cuddas tbh .

It is a separate argument.

What you think the government should have been doing does not really matter? It is what they were doing that counts.

A few online cranks , who all seem to have family that ignored government advice, didn't get tested and didn't get their phone call .... seemingly..... won't really do for me in any argument. It is mudsling and most of it is also lies.

Well they're not doing enough and we can now see the ****show in the hospitals as a result.

Topgear on Dave

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I wouldn't believe a word out of Asia, the entire continent have been lying about infections since the start.

Ah not all Asia, it was Taiwan. They have very low covid and very high public buy in from experience of thus stuff before.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/12/07/asia/taiwan-quarantine-fine-scli-intl/index.html

Maybe I didnt explain myself. To do it the government would have to be absolutely ruthless, no mercy at all and strongly f*ck over anyone that thinks they can bend the rules for a second, close the border if the North doesn't follow because this strategy would probably be needed for 6 months to a year. And yes we'd have to do without a few bits and pieces.

Its by no means an easy out.

IAMAMORON

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Ah not all Asia, it was Taiwan. They have very low covid and very high public buy in from experience of thus stuff before.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/12/07/asia/taiwan-quarantine-fine-scli-intl/index.html

Maybe I didnt explain myself. To do it the government would have to be absolutely ruthless, no mercy at all and strongly f*ck over anyone that thinks they can bend the rules for a second, close the border if the North doesn't follow because this strategy would probably be needed for 6 months to a year. And yes we'd have to do without a few bits and pieces.

Its by no means an easy out.

It also does not work once you re-open the country after 3 weeks.

The infections arrive in and soon as the place gets re-opened, New Zealand doesn't count, but they are having that problem now.

Anyway this conversation is a pointless one as it is never going to happen.

blanch152

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Grip yourself sweetheart.

Govt advice was not to travel unless it was essential.

9th Dec - brother began booking flights on 10th Dec.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-softens-christmas-23138698

ohmergawd - he went beyond the govt advice by getting a test before he travelled, a test on arrival, and the 5 day quarantine even though he had his neg results within 24 hrs...*gosh*

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/health/ireland-christmas-travel-from-abroad-19424367

Honestly, limbo dancers would be impressed at how low the bar govt defenders will attempt to shimmy under - it's so low they don't even know what the govt advice they are defending was.


Now - would either Blanch or Moron care to comment on the Minister who didn't follow govt advice and went shopping? Since ya'll are feeling like condemning people.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/43e6e-briefing-on-the-governments-response-to-covid-19-friday-11-december-2020/#transport

"The general advice for all overseas travel remains to “avoid non-essential travel”."

That was the position on 11th December when your brother was booking flights. The right thing to do was not to travel.

The Taoiseach was referring to situations where he knew, I knew, you knew and every dog in the street knew, that there would be people who would not do the right thing and who would come back to Ireland. He was speaking to them. The advice from government remained the same - avoid non-essential travel.

As I keep saying, and you keep ignoring, your brother did what he did and I have no issue with that, he had his reasons, my issue is with the claim that he did the right thing. He clearly did not.

It is the issue of personal responsibility. Some people ignored the advice and did the wrong thing and came home, some didn't.

IAMAMORON

grayzer75 wrote: »

Well they're not doing enough and we can now see the ****show in the hospitals as a result.

That is the HSE's fault?

I know you are trying to swing it so it would be a department of health problem.

The reality is that if Sinn Féin had the wit to field more TD's last January we could have been blaming them now for failings in the health service?

More mudslinging, you really are desperate.

grayzer75

IAMAMORON wrote: »

That is the HSE's fault?

I know you are trying to swing it so it would be a department of health problem.

The reality is that if Sinn Féin had the wit to field more TD's last January we could have been blaming them now for failings in the health service?

More mudslinging, you really are desperate.

No, it's the governments fault.

They've had months to prepare for this wave of the virus but didn't and now we're seeing the consequences.

James Brown

grayzer75 wrote: »

No, it's the governments fault.

They've had months to prepare for this wave of the virus but didn't and now we're seeing the consequences.

Myself and Leo think the Shinners are right, we need an all island approach. Even Foster might be open to it if Donnelly answered the phone.

grayzer75

Bowie wrote: »

Myself and Leo think the Shinners are right, we need an all island approach. Even Foster might be open to it if Donnelly answered the phone.

Sure didn't Foster and O'Neill write to the Irish government back in July to discuss a harmonised approach to travel and arrangements but still haven't received a response - both the BBC Newsline and UTV News covered it last week.

I suppose if Leo and Mehole won't even listen to their own health experts whats the point, it'll be grand..........