FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

Sure didn't Foster and O'Neill write to the Irish government back in July to discuss a harmonised approach to travel and arrangements but still haven't received a response - both the BBC Newsline and UTV News covered it last week.

I suppose if Leo and Mehole won't even listen to their own health experts whats the point, it'll be grand..........

Well, from my point of view, I wouldn't want our government to be sharing my personal information with a government outside the EU as GDPR wouldn't apply. The Stormont government was looking for the personal details of all travelling through Dublin Airport.

IAMAMORON

Deleted User wrote: »

Its not mudslinging.....ultimately the government is responsible for state of services in country.....they were happy enough to beam about sucess at managing the virus,and tbf they done well in some areas of the intial wave,

so by their own reasoning,they must carry the can for diaster of the 2nd and 3rd wave......


our hospiteals are battered and barely staying upright,and your bemaoning shinners not running enough canditadates so you can blame them instead,catch a hold of yourself

Blaming the government for a pandemic is simply guttersnipe and it is the last stone throw of the depraved.

The health system is what it is. I have to use it every day of the week and it is very functional and very efficient. The staff and facilities are a credit to themselves.

That has nothing to do with whatever government is steering the wheel. It is a credit to the people which work within it.

As I said mudslinging is desperate, it looks unsavoury and it highlights the type of support the opposition really have - nasty enough all said.

Thankfully the closest Sinn Féin are ever going to get to a go at the wheel, is the bland online mudslings of its' ever desperate online teams' attempts to besmirch the status quo - even if that means throwing mud at their own healthforce to achieve their own argument - as I said, guttersnipe stuff. Zero dignity.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, from my point of view, I wouldn't want our government to be sharing my personal information with a government outside the EU as GDPR wouldn't apply. The Stormont government was looking for the personal details of all travelling through Dublin Airport.

Really....

Ms Foster suggested there should be no data sharing problems on the issue. “The Attorney General in the Republic has appeared to confirm that there should be no legal impediment to sharing that information. So ministers have asked us to elevate the matter and raise it again urgently with the Taoiseach,” she said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/north-ministers-frustrated-at-failure-of-dublin-to-provide-traveller-locator-forms-1.4458374

They could at least have the conversation as a matter of courtesy. A north / south ministerial council meeting should've been held in the summer to trash all this out prior to this wave of the virus which the experts warned was coming.

James Brown

grayzer75 wrote: »

Sure didn't Foster and O'Neill write to the Irish government back in July to discuss a harmonised approach to travel and arrangements but still haven't received a response - both the BBC Newsline and UTV News covered it last week.

I suppose if Leo and Mehole won't even listen to their own health experts whats the point, it'll be grand..........

MM will apologise on our behalf for the mother and babies homes but he won't listen to the survivors, have an honest report carried out or apologise for Fianna Fails role.

Bannasidhe

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/43e6e-briefing-on-the-governments-response-to-covid-19-friday-11-december-2020/#transport

"The general advice for all overseas travel remains to “avoid non-essential travel”."

That was the position on 11th December when your brother was booking flights. The right thing to do was not to travel.

The Taoiseach was referring to situations where he knew, I knew, you knew and every dog in the street knew, that there would be people who would not do the right thing and who would come back to Ireland. He was speaking to them. The advice from government remained the same - avoid non-essential travel.


As I keep saying, and you keep ignoring, your brother did what he did and I have no issue with that, he had his reasons, my issue is with the claim that he did the right thing. He clearly did not.

It is the issue of personal responsibility. Some people ignored the advice and did the wrong thing and came home, some didn't.

The advice issued by LV on the 9th Dec was "take the following precautions if you have to travel"
He began booking flights on the 10th.

You might be able to read your beloved Leo's mind but the rest of us can only hear his words.
He issued advice - that advice was more than followed.

And again - you are assuming it was non-essential while knowing exactly nothing about the circumstances such is your haste to condemn.

He did more than follow the advice issued to people who needed to travel to Ireland for essential reasons.

*Deafening Silence* What about the cheese shopping minister Blanch? Was his fromage essential?

And that is the end of that particular tangent which is a mere bicker to distract from the utter lack of monitoring those who arrive into Ireland via our airports.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, from my point of view, I wouldn't want our government to be sharing my personal information with a government outside the EU as GDPR wouldn't apply. The Stormont government was looking for the personal details of all travelling through Dublin Airport.

I think I wouldn't be the only one who believes your "point of view" might be slightly skewed.

Besides, you can spend the next hour or so to come up with another horsemanure excuse.

source

Due to the worldwide pandemic, caused by coronavirus (COVID-19), the UK government has taken measures to stop the spread and save lives. Your personal data is still protected by the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and the Data Protection Act 2018

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

Really....

Ms Foster suggested there should be no data sharing problems on the issue. “The Attorney General in the Republic has appeared to confirm that there should be no legal impediment to sharing that information. So ministers have asked us to elevate the matter and raise it again urgently with the Taoiseach,” she said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/north-ministers-frustrated-at-failure-of-dublin-to-provide-traveller-locator-forms-1.4458374

They could at least have the conversation as a matter of courtesy. A north / south ministerial council meeting should've been held in the summer to trash all this out prior to this wave of the virus which the experts warned was coming.

Appeared to confirm? Ms. Foster is stretching things if that is what she is saying.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Appeared to confirm? Ms. Foster is stretching things if that is what she is saying.

I have linked to the UK govt web site informing readers that:

Who may have access to your data

Your personal data may be shared by the Home Office with UK Health Bodies (Data Controllers) and to carry out track and trace and where applicable with law enforcement agencies such as UK police forces and transport regulators. It may be shared with other government departments (this may include contractors) or agencies for matters that are not incompatible with the health purposes of the track, trace and enforcement of coronavirus in order to:

It seems your fears and concerns are unfounded blanch.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

I think I wouldn't be the only one who believes your "point of view" might be slightly skewed.

Besides, you can spend the next hour or so to come up with another horsemanure excuse.

source

Neither will I rely on what the Brits have to say about protecting my personal information.

https://www.dataprotection.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/2019-11/Brexit%20FAQ%20November%20update.pdf

If you know anything about data protection, you will know that Brexit raises many issues, as our own Data Protection Commissioner sets out.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

I have linked to the UK govt web site informing readers that:



It seems your fears and concerns are unfounded blanch.

Just realised you don't have the first clue about this issue.

We are talking about the Irish government giving the personal information of people who are travelling through Dublin Airport to the Stormont government, and you are seeking to reassure me that is safe because the British government has something on a website!!!!!!

Will spend the next hour laughing.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

If you know anything about data protection, you will know that Brexit raises many issues, as our own Data Protection Commissioner sets out.

It would be fully workable within the protocol as they are only asking access to information for passengers using addresses in the north as their final destination.

There was an opportunity missed during the summer to put systems in place both sides of the border to deal with this including harmonising lockdowns / restrictions, travel arrangements, etc.

Hopefully when this wave is finished they finally get their act together and get ready for the next wave....

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Neither will I rely on what the Brits have to say about protecting my personal information.

https://www.dataprotection.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/2019-11/Brexit%20FAQ%20November%20update.pdf

If you know anything about data protection, you will know that Brexit raises many issues, as our own Data Protection Commissioner sets out.

So our personal data is subject to GDRP, except when it's in the hands of people you don't trust, even though that govt website says it's still subject to GDPR?

seems like GDPR isn't worth a shyte so.

IAMAMORON

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The advice issued by LV on the 9th Dec was "take the following precautions if you have to travel"
He began booking flights on the 10th.

You might be able to read your beloved Leo's mind but the rest of us can only hear his words.
He issued advice - that advice was more than followed.

And again - you are assuming it was non-essential while knowing exactly nothing about the circumstances such is your haste to condemn.

He did more than follow the advice issued to people who needed to travel to Ireland for essential reasons.

*Deafening Silence* What about the cheese shopping minister Blanch? Was his fromage essential?

And that is the end of that particular tangent which is a mere bicker to distract from the utter lack of monitoring those who arrive into Ireland via our airports.

Like you are now stooped to admitting that your own brother actually adhered or respected Leo Varadkers' advice ( advised by the NPHET PR team ) to allow yourself fling mud at the government. Even when he patently didn't do so, he did in fact ignore government advice and put your entire family at risk.

I tell you going forward, I didn't ask that you respect the conversation, but I cannot respect your bias going forward. Anyone that admits their own family are stooges to follow government spin and PR do not get my respect, especially if they are using the actions of their own family to embellish some sort of online debate?

Sorry citizen, but you have to earn your own respect in your own argument. Hanging your own brother doesn't do it for me. You are literally saying that you would hang your own to win an argument?

That is really sad, no matter what political party you support.

IAMAMORON

grayzer75 wrote: »

TBF at a minimum the government should have made it mandatory to have a negative test prior to entering the country.

How would you even begin to enforce that?

Some of the drivel that gets poured and spewed out here by Sinn Féin supporters really epitomises the tribe of gormless twits they are. They really are without a bulls notion of what they are talking about.

Bannasidhe

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Like you are now stooped to admitting that your own brother actually adhered or respected Leo Varadkers' advice ( advised by the NPHET PR team ) to allow yourself fling mud at the government. Even when he patently didn't do so, he did in fact ignore government advice and put your entire family at risk.

I tell you going forward, I didn't ask that you respect the conversation, but I cannot respect your bias going forward. Anyone that admits their own family are stooges to follow government spin and PR do not get my respect, especially if they are using the actions of their own family to embellish some sort of online debate?

Sorry citizen, but you have to earn your own respect in your own argument. Hanging your own brother doesn't do it for me. You are literally saying that you would hang your own to win an argument?

That is really sad, no matter what political party you support.

What are you talking about?

I haven't seen my brother in real life since last Oct - nor has any of his family in Ireland.

He came to Ireland for essential reasons following govt advice, but fully prepared to not come should that be required.
He did the tests.
He did the quarantine.
He still isolates apart from when he is doing his essential reason for coming home and that is carried out masked, sanitised, and remotely when at all possible.

At no point was he contacted by anyone to ensure he is, in fact, doing as he ought to..
Which was the point of my original post.

So you can stop using my family for what ever agenda is filtering through your username.

As for respect - keep it. I don't want yours.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

So our personal data is subject to GDRP, except when it's in the hands of people you don't trust, even though that govt website says it's still subject to GDPR?

seems like GDPR isn't worth a shyte so.

GDPR means that you cannot transfer personal information outside of the EU without adequate protections being in place and the requisite protocols around consent.

Your position seems to be that if the Russian and American governments claim to respect GDPR, then the Irish government can send them every little bit of personal information that they have on me.

grayzer75

IAMAMORON wrote: »

How would you even begin to enforce that?

Some of the drivel that gets poured and spewed out here by Sinn Féin supporters really epitomises the tribe of gormless twits they are. They really are without a bulls notion of what they are talking about.

It's quite simple, if you can't provide a negative test result given within 72 hours of travel the airline / ferry company cannot allow you to board - if they do they are hit with a substantial fine for allowing infected passengers transit into the country.

We are an island after all......

IAMAMORON

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What are you talking about?

I haven't seen my brother in real life since last Oct - nor has any of his family in Ireland.

He came to Ireland for essential reasons following govt advice, but fully prepared to not come should that be required.
He did the tests.
He did the quarantine.
He still isolates apart from when he is doing his essential reason for coming home and that is carried out masked, sanitised, and remotely when at all possible.

At no point was he contacted by anyone to ensure he is, in fact, doing as he ought to..
Which was the point of my original post.

So you can stop using my family for what ever agenda is filtering through your username.

As for respect - keep it. I don't want yours.

As I said you may give it up.

To reiterate I don't now respect any of your argument.

You are the person that brought in your own family to facilitate your won debate, dragging them through it in the process.

IAMAMORON

grayzer75 wrote: »

It's quite simple, if you can't provide a negative test result given within 72 hours of travel the airline / ferry company cannot allow you to board - if they do they are hit with a substantial fine for allowing infected passengers transit into the country.

We are an island after all......

Everything is simple ?

I know some people like to make up the rules as they go along, but thankfully the world poses a few more complex scenarios.

The reality is that there is no legislation available to facilitate travel providers from banning anyone from travelling. Even if they turn up with a piece of paper which says " Hi, I am covid negative " on it.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

GDPR means that you cannot transfer personal information outside of the EU without adequate protections being in place and the requisite protocols around consent.

Your position seems to be that if the Russian and American governments claim to respect GDPR, then the Irish government can send them every little bit of personal information that they have on me.

Stop with this nonsense, your first faux concern was you wouldn't trust the British Government with your details because GDPR.

Now it's been shown that your details would still be subject to GDRP even if in the hands of the British, it's what about Russia and USA?

Would you like to shift the goalposts over there now >>>?

Has there ever been a more disingenuous poster on this site I have to wonder?

grayzer75

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Everything is simple ?

I know some people like to make up the rules as they go along, but thankfully the world poses a few more complex scenarios.

The reality is that there is no legislation available to facilitate travel providers from banning anyone from travelling. Even if they turn up with a piece of paper which says " Hi, I am covid negative " on it.

I'm sure a government can create legislation on public health grounds with the help of ALL elected representatives.

We know people can't be trusted to follow advice alone and that's why we're currently in lockdown. We know the track and trace hasn't the capacity to cope with the vast numbers coming into the country so we're left with little options other than to stop infected people travelling here in the first place.

Yes, it would be a pain in the arse but if it saves the health services on the island it would be worth doing but it will only work if implemented by both north and south.

IAMAMORON

grayzer75 wrote: »

I'm sure a government can create legislation on public health grounds with the help of ALL elected representatives.

We know people can't be trusted to follow advice alone and that's why we're currently in lockdown. We know the track and trace hasn't the capacity to cope with the vast numbers coming into the country so we're left with little options other than to stop infected people travelling here in the first place.

Yes, it would be a pain in the arse but if it saves the health services on the island it would be worth doing but it will only work if implemented by both north and south.

You can't just make things up as you go along, the real world doesn't work that way.

My cousin is up and down to Enniskillen everyday. What does he do? Get a phucking crossborder APP ? Maybe we call it " HEYPRESTO "

My other cousin is up to Lurgan every second week, what about that?

This myth that the health service is not coping is garbage made up by scaremongerers looking to score political points. As I said things are heavy, but it is not a crisis.

Furthermore this government and the last one have poured more money into the HSE than any government in History. The concept that " it is all their fault" is nonsense.

Depraved, guttersnipe mudslinging.

grayzer75

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You can't just make things up as you go along, the real world doesn't work that way.

My cousin is up and down to Enniskillen everyday. What does he do? Get a phucking crossborder APP ? Maybe we call it " HEYPRESTO "

My other cousin is up to Lurgan every second week, what about that?

This myth that the health service is not coping is garbage made up by scaremongerers looking to score political points. As I said things are heavy, but it is not a crisis.

Furthermore this government and the last one have poured more money into the HSE than any government in History. The concept that " it is all their fault" is nonsense.

Depraved, guttersnipe mudslinging.

Thanks for the irrelevant waffle you've just posted - this is nothing to do with cross border workers.

I'm talking about people entering the island of Ireland from overseas just like the 54,000 in the lead up to Christmas, some of which were infected with the 'Kent Strain' after travelling in from the UK.

If there's no issue with the health service, why are we in lockdown? why are the HSE signing deals with private hospitals? why are we hearing about record Covid cases in ICU?

We know this government pumped money into the HSE e.g. the worlds most expensive hospital.

IAMAMORON

grayzer75 wrote: »

Thanks for the irrelevant waffle you've just posted - this is nothing to do with cross border workers.

I'm talking about people entering the island of Ireland from overseas just like the 54,000 in the lead up to Christmas, so of which were infected with the 'Kent Strain' after travelling in from the UK.

If there's no issue with the health service, why are we in lockdown? why are the HSE signing deals with private hospitals? why are we hearing about record Covid cases in ICU?

We know this government pumped money into the HSE e.g. the worlds most expensive hospital.

The reason why we are in lockdown is because there is a global pandemic going on.

It has nothing to do with the government. Pretending that it is amounts to guttersnipe.

grayzer75

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The reason why we are in lockdown is because there is a global pandemic going on.

It has nothing to do with the government. Pretending that it is amounts to guttersnipe.

It has everything to do with government, the very same government who ignored NPHET's advice before Christmas.

Pretending anything else is complete horse****e but I wouldn't expect anything less from a FFG fanboy tbh.

IAMAMORON

Deleted User wrote: »

The reasom we're in lockdown is because the government tore up nphet advice and opened up socialismg,shops and family visits for xmas

It wasnt worth it....this is also the same government,who introduced a tax-breaks to encourage socialising and staycations in a pandemic

No wonder we ended up with highest infection rates in world at one stage,

Yeah, like the whole country was going to lock its' doors for Christmas, just because the gubbermint said so?

Don't make me laugh.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The reasom we're in lockdown is because the government tore up nphet advice and opened up socialismg,shops and family visits for xmas

It wasnt worth it....this is also the same government,who introduced a tax-breaks to encourage socialising and staycations in a pandemic

No wonder we ended up with highest infection rates in world at one stage,

And da gubberment forced people to go out and mix with infected people and passed it on. How frightfully generous of them. But, Twas all da gubberments fault. They told us to do it M’Lud.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

And da gubberment forced people to go out and mix with infected people and passed it on. How frightfully generous of them. But, Twas all da gubberments fault. They told us to do it M’Lud.

Is it a case of spouting this kind of thing, having it explained to you, then you disappearing for a few days only to come back with the same stuff?

If we are not to heed government advice why do we keep them on salary?

IAMAMORON

Bowie wrote: »

Is it a case of spouting this kind of thing, having it explained to you, then you disappearing for a few days only to come back with the same stuff?

If we are not to heed government advice why do we keep them on salary?

I would fire the entire top table of NPHET for courting the press and the opposition.

Their job is to advise the government, it is the governments job to use the advice. This business of saying " we told you so " after the fact is bolloxing. If that is the case how come we are not party to every piece of government advice put there?

It is easy for NPHET to say lock the place down. They can do no wrong saying otherwise.

I could advise the cabinet the lock the place down everyday, it is not hard to do.

Triangle

Bowie wrote: »

Is it a case of spouting this kind of thing, having it explained to you, then you disappearing for a few days only to come back with the same stuff?

If we are not to heed government advice why do we keep them on salary?

In all fairness Bowie, most don't spend huge amounts of time on boards complaining as much as some people do.

There is a point where people have to take personal responsibility, that wasn't done and as you point out - the government didn't make them.
It's not a one or the other situation, it's a bit of both.