FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I would fire the entire top table of NPHET for courting the press and the opposition.

Their job is to advise the government, it is the governments job to use the advice. This business of saying " we told you so " after the fact is bolloxing. If that is the case how come we are not party to every piece of government advice put there?

It is easy for NPHET to say lock the place down. They can do no wrong saying otherwise.

I could advise the cabinet the lock the place down everyday, it is not hard to do.

We don't know who leaked when Varadkar took his hissy fit on television.
We do know Varadkar lied last week regarding NPHET advice.
This 'us versus NPHET' is Varadkar driven Trumpism, (see Trump verses Fauci). We are in the middle of a pandemic and FF/FG are taking shots at NPHET so they can excuse their idiocy.

James Brown

Triangle wrote: »

In all fairness Bowie, most don't spend huge amounts of time on boards complaining as much as some people do.

There is a point where people have to take personal responsibility, that wasn't done and as you point out - the government didn't make them.
It's not a one or the other situation, it's a bit of both.

How much time you or anyone else spends on boards doesn't interest me.
People were told they could socialise and go to restaurants. Many did. Cases rose.
Maybe if FF/FG didn't cherry pick advice we'd have fared better?

Governments lead in the best interest of the public. If we are saying they aren't accountable what's their point? Lets get accountable people in who can make sound decisions.

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

I'm sure a government can create legislation on public health grounds with the help of ALL elected representatives.

We know people can't be trusted to follow advice alone and that's why we're currently in lockdown. We know the track and trace hasn't the capacity to cope with the vast numbers coming into the country so we're left with little options other than to stop infected people travelling here in the first place.

Yes, it would be a pain in the arse but if it saves the health services on the island it would be worth doing but it will only work if implemented by both north and south.

No, they can't. There are certain rights enscribed in European law regarding the freedom of movement that just can't be waved away by legislation.

As well as this, the government would have to close the border with Northern Ireland and enforce it, if it wanted to ban incoming travel.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

How much time you or anyone else spends on boards doesn't interest me.
People were told they could socialise and go to restaurants. Many did. Cases rose.
Maybe if FF/FG didn't cherry pick advice we'd have fared better?

Governments lead in the best interest of the public. If we are saying they aren't accountable what's their point? Lets get accountable people in who can make sound decisions.

I notice that it is everyone except the government who is cherrypicking public health advice today.

Public health say that schools are safe, but the teachers, the SNAs and Mary-Lou are saying different.

mariaalice

Deleted User wrote: »

The chair of nphet says,its an unnecessary risk

Where does he say that about special schools?

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Stop with this nonsense, your first faux concern was you wouldn't trust the British Government with your details because GDPR.

Now it's been shown that your details would still be subject to GDRP even if in the hands of the British, it's what about Russia and USA?

Would you like to shift the goalposts over there now >>>?

Has there ever been a more disingenuous poster on this site I have to wonder?

I don't think you have understood my posts at all.

(1) Brexit has happened, the UK has left the EU
(2) GDPR no longer applies to the UK because of Brexit (see website of Irish Government Data Protection Commissioner)
(3) Just because a UK website says that it does, does not reassure me - the Irish government is so far refusing to hand personal details to the Stormont government, which does reassure me.
(4) GDPR may apply to the UK in future, if relevant protocols are put in place, but not sure that it will apply to giving data collected by the Irish government to the British government
(5) Even if it could be done, consent is needed, so the forms at Dublin Airport will need a section whereby individuals consent to the information being collected by the Irish government being sent to the Stormont government
(6) Why would anyone seeking to evade NI controls tick that box, making the exercise a pointless bureaucratic mess.
(7) Some posters will seek to ignore points (1) to (6) in order to just moan, whinge and carp about the Irish government.
(8) Amazing that those who claim to be republicans believe that personal information about Irish citizens should be given by the Irish government to the British government just like that.

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

The chair of nphet says,its an unnecessary risk

Don't know where you are getting that from.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0118/1190529-special-schools/

"Dr Kevin Kelleher of the Health Service Executive told the webinar that while the new variant of the virus was more transmissible, the safety measures currently recommended for schools were still applicable and would protect people.

Dr Abigail Collins, a public health specialist, acknowledged that there was no such thing as "risk free" and that partially reopening schools was about achieving an appropriate risk balance."

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The chair of nphet says,its an unnecessary risk

Whole special needs school reopening seems to be coming from Simon Harris' brother who I think doesn't quite grasp what Covid is,

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

Press conference the last one



So in effect,there is risk??

There is risk involved in walking outside your door. An airplane could fall on your head. Yet, in walking outside the door, you make a decision based on an appropriate risk balance, taking into account the risk that an airplane could fall on your head. Ditto schools reopening.

The latest nonsense on this was Mary-Lou suggesting that teachers have genuine concerns about safely getting to schools. Are they concerned they might have to sit on a bus with a nurse or a junior doctor going to work in a hospital?

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

Il hazard a guess a highly transmissible virus spreading in a school envirnoment is more likely than a airplane falling on your head

Why did the government coverup outbreaks in several schools,by changing definition of close contacts for schools??



As you said yourself nothing is risk free,......will the government change the definiton on close comtacts in schools and stop.the coverups??

Can you gaurantee all families,with immuno-compromised kids(grew up in one myself),their siblings wont catch covid and bring it home??,

This is where the 'personal responsibility' comes in

It's genius actually. FF/FG are accountable for nothing. Great job.

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

Il hazard a guess a highly transmissible virus spreading in a school envirnoment is more likely than a airplane falling on your head

Why did the government coverup outbreaks in several schools,by changing definition of close contacts for schools??



As you said yourself nothing is risk free,......will the government change the definiton on close comtacts in schools and stop.the coverups??

Can you gaurantee all families,with immuno-compromised kids(grew up in one myself),their siblings wont catch covid and bring it home??,

Sending those kids into risky situations to own the shinners,gain political points is a thundering disgrace

https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/coronavirus-covid-19

France has a curfew from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. yet is keeping its schools open.

"All schools from kindergarten to high schools will remain open during lockdown."

As for the families with immuno-compromised kids, I know of a couple where the parents are working in retail and healthcare and have had to keep working in such risky situations because the country needs them.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't think you have understood my posts at all.

(1) Brexit has happened, the UK has left the EU
(2) GDPR no longer applies to the UK because of Brexit (see website of Irish Government Data Protection Commissioner)
(3) Just because a UK website says that it does, does not reassure me - the Irish government is so far refusing to hand personal details to the Stormont government, which does reassure me

It isn't just a "UK website" blanch its the feckin official British Government website, based on you wilfully and blatantly ignoring the source of the website linked to, I have little interest in discussing or even reading the rest of that assumedly long winded load of shyte that surely follows.


Can you show me where the Irish government have said they've refused to cooperate/share data with the UK government, regarding sharing travel info north-south travel because of GDPR, other than you posting it here and presenting it as fact?

No?

Thought not.

Just to put an end to your complete and utter nonsense, you might find this interesting.

Data protection law after 31 December 2020: will the GDPR apply in the UK after Brexit?
Although the EU GDPR itself no longer applies to UK residents’ personal data, UK organisations must still comply with its requirements after this point.

First, the DPA 2018 already enacts the EU GDPR’s requirements in UK law.

Second, the DPPEC (Data Protection, Privacy and Electronic Communications (Amendments etc) (EU Exit)) Regulations 2019 amends the DPA 2018 and merges it with the requirements of the EU GDPR to form a data protection regime that works in a UK context after Brexit alongside the DPA 2018.

This new regime is known as ‘the UK GDPR’.

There is very little material difference between the EU GDPR and the UK GDPR, so organisations that process personal data should continue to comply with the EU GDPR’s requirements.

Learn more about complying with the DPA 2018 and UK GDPR

The EU GDPR’s requirements as implemented by Parts 3 and 4 of the DPA 2018 continue to apply for law enforcement and intelligence purposes.

Third, any UK organisation that offers goods or services to, or monitors the behaviour of, EU residents will have to comply with the EU GDPR, and will have to make some changes to their data processing activities.

Chancer.

Cluedo Monopoly

Well worth a read.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40209122.html

Fergus Finlay.

Mother and Baby Homes scandal will haunt country for years.

First of all, I hope you’ll forgive me if I say what an appalling report the Mother and Baby Homes Commission produced. I don’t know why they pulled so many punches. I don’t know why they produced a report that was so unworthy of the calibre of people involved.

But from the very first page, it was clear that this report wasn’t going to address fundamental injustices.

I’ve read the government statement, and the “Action Plan” that’s proposed. Behind the gobbledegook, it’s a miserable attempt. You can cut through that — but only if you take personal charge.

For example, you’re going to “advance Information and Tracing Legislation to pre-legislative scrutiny in 2021”. All that means is getting the heads of a Bill — not the complete bill, nor even a thorough draft — to an Oireachtas committee this year.

On that basis there might, just might, be a possibility that proper legislation will see the light of day in 2023. Really? A determined minister could do a lot better than that.

If FFGG do not reject this report, they will get the blame for the ongoing injustice.

Please email the FFGG TDs who are associated with this appalling report and legislation timeline to make your feelings known.

roderic.ogorman@oireachtas.ie
leo.varadkar@oireachtas.ie
micheal.martin@oireachtas.ie
regina.doherty@oireachtas.ie
eamon.ryan@oireachtas.ie

smurgen

Could someone wake up Eamon Ryan at all. This is actually an area he might be able to help with if he could stay awake.

https://twitter.com/DanielTMurray/status/1351584533829865474?s=19

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

Could someone wake up Eamon Ryan at all. This is actually an area he might be able to help with if he could stay awake.

https://twitter.com/DanielTMurray/status/1351584533829865474?s=19

A pal of mine who supports the Greens, (but doesn't like to talk about it) won't be happy.

markodaly

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Senior hurling eh?

They couldn't hit a sliotar if you sat it on a rugby tee and gave them 3 attempts.



https://www.buzz.ie/news/construction-workers-received-covid-vaccine-in-kerry-hospital-412915

In fairness, the government have been very clear on who is supposed to get the vaccines. I don't think you expect to have government ministers in hospitals checking people out, like a bouncer at a club?

The people who skited the rules and those in hospitals who gave out jabs to people who shouldn't have, should face consequences.

But I know people like to blame the incompetence of some Biddy or Joe in a Kerry hospital at some Minister's door.

Put it this way, if we had the SD's in government, the same crap would have been pulled. Only fools would think otherwise.

markodaly

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Even given FF's technically "at the wheel" at the moment, I'm surprised FG have come out on top here given the seemingly never-ending negative PR about FG and Leo in particular. That being said, I don't see any real prospect of either FF or FG looking to bring down this government on those figures.

Perhaps but the split is there now.
SF as the anti-establishment 'We can do better' party of populists, nativists and moaners.
FG as the establishment, centre-right party of practicality, globalism and common-sense governance.

FF has always been traditionally a more populist party than FG, hence why they were so successful electorally. Now though SF has stolen their clothes and they don't really know what to do anymore.

I can see FF making comeback though, once we get to see SF in government and the population will realise that there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

In fairness, the government have been very clear on who is supposed to get the vaccines. I don't think you expect to have government ministers in hospitals checking people out, like a bouncer at a club?

The people who skited the rules and those in hospitals who gave out jabs to people who shouldn't have, should face consequences.

But I know people like to blame the incompetence of some Biddy or Joe in a Kerry hospital at some Minister's door.

Put it this way, if we had the SD's in government, the same crap would have been pulled. Only fools would think otherwise.

Talking to someone today (wife of co-worker),who is involved in going about to nursing homes vaccinating people and the level of scrutiny/security involved,deos inspire confidence tbf


But it also,makes the amount of above scenarios happening in a hospiteal setting perplexing,and tbh i think further investigation is warrented......possible need to centralise vaccine approval/opening,as its obvious hospiteals arent managing it right

markodaly

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Neither text nor phone call did he receive.

Gosh - he should have stayed in Switzerland should he? When could he come home Blanch? If he flew via Brazil would it have been ok?
Should every single Irish citizen and resident who happened to be out of the country have stayed put?

At least he didn't go Xmas shopping like the Minister for Agriculture but who are we to judge eh Blanch?

And.... this is the reason why Ireland is sooo ****ed because of Covid.

People just not taking personal responsibility. This is not about FG, FF, SD, or SF, this is about the Irish people themselves and we have seen over the past 6-7 weeks just how weak-willed we are for a bit of shopping, pints and some craic.

Blanch is 100% correct. The right thing your brother should have done is not travel, as per government advice. Yet, he probably thought he was an exception, and so did every other Irish person who went for drinks, pints, something to eat over the Christmas period....

Grand, blame whatever minister you want to blame but at the end of the day your brother is just another example of the 'me feiner' attitude we have in Ireland.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Talking to someone today (wife of co-worker),who is involved in going about to nursing homes vaccinating people and the level of scrutiny/security involved,deos inspire confidence tbf


But it also,makes the amount of above scenarios happening in a hospiteal setting perplexing,and tbh i think further investigation is warrented......possible need to centralise vaccine approval/opening,as its obvious hospiteals arent managing it right

Id imagine its more of the case of having some spare vaccines left over at 4pm and scouring people about the place to get those jabs into peoples arms.

Of course, there may also be a nod and a wink from people in the know, classic Ireland in fairness as Ireland is a small place and everyone kinda knows everyone else.

Saying that though, it should not be happening.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

Id imagine its more of the case of having some spare vaccines left over at 4pm and scouring people about the place to get those jabs into peoples arms.

This woman had a list laid out,and had to get approval to open the sealed container and send documented proof of all vials etc in the box,to account for them and wait formal approval to begin using them (admitely these were closed settings of nursing homes).....

.the only excuse i can fathom is,they allow x% for spillage etc and this didnt happen leaving x amount left over....which if this is the case,just say it...as i understand these cant be returned to storage

Of course, there may also be a nod and a wink from people in the know, classic Ireland in fairness as Ireland is a small place and everyone kinda knows everyone else.

Saying that though, it should not be happening.

I agree,if its not lack of spillage/accidents (i hope and assume it is)...then serious qs need answering

FrancieBrady

Thought Niall Collins wee head was gonna explode on the Tonight Show trying to defend the government on the Special Schools, the latest sector to get an experience of the government of chaos.

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Thought Niall Collins wee head was gonna explode on the Tonight Show trying to defend the government on the Special Schools, the latest sector to get an experience of the government of chaos.

I'm watching it as I type this Francie, Jesus Christ of almighty, Collins got completely, and utterly torn asunder by Carthy. It was actually embarrassing and satisfactory to watch in equal measures.

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

I'm watching it as I type this Francie, Jesus Christ of almighty, Collins got completely, and utterly torn asunder by Carthy. It was actually embarrassing and satisfactory to watch in equal measures.

The line...'The Government announced last week that the schools would open on Thursday and this week they are not', nearly sent Niall into orbit. Poor fella was handed the ****ty end of the stick to have to defend it.

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The line...'The Government announced last week that the schools would open on Thursday and this week they are not', nearly sent Niall into orbit. Poor fella was handed the ****ty end of the stick to have to defend it.

Yeah, you could see Carthy keeping his powder dry, letting Collins splutter and stutter his spoofery before he let it rip with perfect timing.

Definitely drew the short straw getting wheeled out to defend the clusterfcuk. Should have been Norma in that studio, now that would have been truly epic


https://twitter.com/flange17/status/1351658887959732229?s=19

markodaly

I know its nice and all to beat the government over the schools issue, but is any blame going to go to the Teacher Unions who seem to be dictating policy now.

The people elected the government, we didn't elect the Unions to run our education system.

James Brown

The unions represent the teachers interests.
Maybe the government should take responsibility for whatever it is they do.

Thank **** for the unions as otherwise the government's catastrophic handling of the virus would be (somehow) even worse.

jmcc

Bowie wrote: »

The unions represent the teachers interests.
Maybe the government should take responsibility for whatever it is they do.

Isn't the minister in charge of the fiasco a teacher?

Regards...jmcc

smurgen

Well this is awkward. Mate of then Taoiseach gets copy of confidential contract before Minister of Health. In any other country he would be gone or arrested.

https://twitter.com/PearseDoherty/status/1351787381398102016?s=19