FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

Bishop of hope

IAMAMORON wrote: »

He is too young yet and still has the "blow in " tag to get off his back.

Also south Dublin / north Wicklow like the same bread and butter. They are a fickle bunch. You don't get party leader until you are making your quota with plenty of spares - in theory anyway.

I can't see him making it at any time, he doesn't have the back pedigree.
A lot of FFrs still don't attribute MM as being creditential even yet.
The republican stancers in the party still view political leadership with that historical pedigree required.

Floppybits

IAMAMORON wrote: »

All senior hurlers get there in the end. :pac:

I actually think he made a good decision by joining a party that can potentially make a difference.

The Dáil is full of idealists who pick up loose disgruntled votes. Independents are destined to sit on the sidelines cranking away getting nothing done. Basically a waste of time. I am not saying they are bad politicians, but they are ineffectual. I think Donnelly recognised that fact and decided to step up, I respect that to be honest.

I don't care what a politician says or does, as long as they believe in what they are doing and are able to deliver on what they are saying.

He has been found wanting now that he is in the ministerial role. Do you really think that he is leadership material? The guy has been ridiculed from pillar to post since he was put in as minister. He will be always be remembered for his Trampoline comment.

His loyalty is also questionable first an independent, then the Soc Dems and now FF and he will probably make the jump to FG soon. The few FFers that are left wont make him a leader with that history and after the next election how much of a FF party will be left

IAMAMORON

Floppybits wrote: »

He has been found wanting now that he is in the ministerial role. Do you really think that he is leadership material? The guy has been ridiculed from pillar to post since he was put in as minister. He will be always be remembered for his Trampoline comment.

His loyalty is also questionable first an independent, then the Soc Dems and now FF and he will probably make the jump to FG soon. The few FFers that are left wont make him a leader with that history and after the next election how much of a FF party will be left

The Health portfolio is a nightmare. It is highly likely that he was promised a ministerial position by Martin if he joined up. All politicians get ridiculed - that's the job.

It is the ones with the toughest necks that survive.

What was his Trampoline comment?

Loafing Oaf

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The Health portfolio is a nightmare. It is highly likely that he was promised a ministerial position by Martin if he joined up. All politicians get ridiculed - that's the job.

It is the ones with the toughest necks that survive.

What was his Trampoline comment?

WATCH: Health Minister Stephen Donnelly likens children going back to school amid a pandemic to jumping on a trampoline


You're right, every health minister I can remember has got slaughtered. If the vaccine rollout goes well he might turn a crisis into an opportunity...

meeeeh

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

WATCH: Health Minister Stephen Donnelly likens children going back to school amid a pandemic to jumping on a trampoline


You're right, every health minister I can remember has got slaughtered. If the vaccine rollout goes well he might turn a crisis into an opportunity...

I don't know why people got so offended by that trampoline analogy. Everything in life is judgement call between benefits and risk. It's logical. Outrage is not logical though. It's emotional reaction because people are too stupid to process basic facts. Yes the risk from Corona is higher (although not really for kids) but so are benefits of kids going to school.

smurgen

Donnelly is like a man with a problem for every solution. Himself and LV. He spent all day yesterday coming out with baseless claims as to why pursuing a zero covid strategy wouldn't work. Utterly depressing politicians.

IAMAMORON

smurgen wrote: »

Donnelly is like a man with a problem for every solution. Himself and LV. He spent all day yesterday coming out with baseless claims as to why pursuing a zero covid strategy wouldn't work. Utterly depressing politicians.

Molotovs incoming.

Give your mind a rest. Float like a butterfly and see how it feels?

Cluedo Monopoly

Leo all over the place the last few days. They are still in very early stages of this mandatory quarantine plan for certain countries.
He was asked how they would know if people came from Brazil, SA or wherever if they transit through a European hub. He had no answer.
I doubt there are any direct flights running from Brazil/SA to Ireland.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

So, the doctor looking to be chairperson of the Labour Party isn't a pr Bull****ter?
OK the tweet wasnt complimentary, but the doctor is obviously a member of a opposition party giving it large against the govt and somebody gives him a bit of stick so he says he will shut up and then says it's because of a govt Pr spinner, shocker that one.

I'm speaking on the PR chaps tone and message. What the other lad is or said is neither here nor there and certainly doesn't excuse it.
Are we lowering the bar based on who is being bullied?

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The report implies he is accusing a pr spin Doctor with ties to the health minister of bullying him, like its the ministers and govt fault he quit twitter.

From the article.
"Dr O’Connor, who is also running to be the next chairperson of the Labour Party, has been critical of the Government response to Covid-19 and is a contributor on TV and radio discussions on the pandemic".

Did you read it? Gross and nasty.

Who the target is is irrelevant.

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

All senior hurlers get there in the end. :pac:

I actually think he made a good decision by joining a party that can potentially make a difference.

The Dáil is full of idealists who pick up loose disgruntled votes. Independents are destined to sit on the sidelines cranking away getting nothing done. Basically a waste of time. I am not saying they are bad politicians, but they are ineffectual. I think Donnelly recognised that fact and decided to step up, I respect that to be honest.

I don't care what a politician says or does, as long as they believe in what they are doing and are able to deliver on what they are saying.

He should have helped stop Fianna Fail from making any future difference. Look at the caliber of people and record of the party.

The majority are floating voters. They drift, traditionally from FF to FG. They are not idiots. We had, (and after Covid will still have) generational record breaking crises. It's quite obvious this played a role in recent moves by the electorate.
The only regretful thing is FF coming back up in 2020.

IAMAMORON

James Brown wrote: »

The majority are floating voters. They drift, traditionally from FF to FG.

You are massively wrong there.

FF / FG rivalry remains, that is knee deep, especially down the culchie.

FF dissenters have switched directly to Sinn Féin.

FG voters vote FG, if they are disaffected they will faff one to an independent or the Greens or some other left wing shight ( even Labour ), but they contrast fundamentally with more hardline republican ideals. All the rise in Sinn Féin popularity has directly been Fianna Fáil losses. Look it up.

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You are massively wrong there.

FF / FG rivalry remains, that is knee deep, especially down the culchie.

FF dissenters have switched directly to Sinn Féin.

FG voters vote FG, if they are disaffected they will faff one to an independent or the Greens or some other left wing shight ( even Labour ), but they contrast fundamentally with more hardline republican ideals. All the rise in Sinn Féin popularity has directly been Fianna Fáil losses. Look it up.

How do you explain the FF/FG political see-saw since the state was founded?

They both have their solid base but are dependent on floating voters.

Many voters went to SF and others. Most people vote for who they feel suits them at the time. The massive swing in 2020 was more about the crises than anything else IMO.

IAMAMORON

James Brown wrote: »

The massive swing in 2020 was more about the crises than anything else IMO.

There was no Covid crisis until March, the election was in February.

Look it up.

Nationalist republican votes directly switch. Any lefties leftover will waste their votes on some local independent mouth, spoofing about fixing the roads or whatever else.

FG voters don't vote FF, they never did.

That is the biggest issue Sinn Féin has now, finding another 40 seats, good luck with that, it is not happening anytime soon.

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

There was no Covid crisis until March, the election was in February.

Look it up.

Nationalist republican votes directly switch. Any lefties leftover will waste their votes on some local independent mouth, spoofing about fixing the roads or whatever else.

FG voters don't vote FF, they never did.

That is the biggest issue Sinn Féin has now, finding another 40 seats, good luck with that, it is not happening anytime soon.

What has covid got to do with it? I only mentioned it because it's factoring into our traditional ongoing record breaking crises.

yes, the FF/FG base that don't seem to care what their team does will stick no matter what. The rest are floaters. People do and have voted for FF in one election and FG in the next. The formation of our governments since the inception of the state plainly show this.

SF and others weren't really in it in 2011. FG garnered some former FF votes most certainly.

IAMAMORON

James Brown wrote: »

What has covid got to do with it? I only mentioned it because it's factoring into our traditional ongoing record breaking crises.

yes, the FF/FG base that don't seem to care what their team does will stick no matter what. The rest are floaters. People do and have voted for FF in one election and FG in the next. The formation of our governments since the inception of the state plainly show this.

SF and others weren't really in it in 2011. FG garnered some former FF votes most certainly.

You mentioned the " crises " pal?

Look it up.

While you are at it you might actually check the election results and come back and discuss them when you know the story. The results are all there in black and white.

Look them up.

Loafing Oaf

IAMAMORON wrote: »

That is the biggest issue Sinn Féin has now, finding another 40 seats, good luck with that, it is not happening anytime soon.

I don't even the most bullish SFer sees an overall majority as a realistic objective. The plan is to lead a coalition of other left parties. They weren't that far off las time...

McMurphy

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You mentioned the " crises " pal?

Look it up.

While you are at it you might actually check the election results and come back and discuss them when you know the story. The results are all there in black and white.

Look them up.

Crises - not Crisis

.A crisis (plural: "crises

We had a few on the go before Covid came to town.

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You mentioned the " crises " pal?

Look it up.

While you are at it you might actually check the election results and come back and discuss them when you know the story. The results are all there in black and white.

Look them up.

Housing, health, child homelessness etc. The traditional record breaking crises, (Hopefully Covid will fade). These are the issues gave us the 2020 results we got IMO.

So you are disputing FF did poorly in 2011 and FG did well and vice versa in 2020?

IAMAMORON

James Brown wrote: »

Housing, health, child homelessness etc. The traditional record breaking crises, (Hopefully Covid will fade). These are the issues gave us the 2020 results we got IMO.

So you are disputing FF did poorly in 2011 and FG did well and vice versa in 2020?

Child homelessness.....

Did you look that one up ?

Floppybits

IAMAMORON wrote: »

There was no Covid crisis until March, the election was in February.

Look it up.

Nationalist republican votes directly switch. Any lefties leftover will waste their votes on some local independent mouth, spoofing about fixing the roads or whatever else.

FG voters don't vote FF, they never did.

That is the biggest issue Sinn Féin has now, finding another 40 seats, good luck with that, it is not happening anytime soon.

So are you saying that if you don't vote FF or FG you are just wasting your vote?

I'd also disagree with you on independents just look at Tony Gregory and even the Healy Rae's.

IAMAMORON

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I don't even the most bullish SFer sees an overall majority as a realistic objective. The plan is to lead a coalition of other left parties. They weren't that far off las time...

Good luck with that.... the plan that is.

Let us know how that goes for the lefties.

Only another 30 seats .... that is how far off you are. It is schwinging precariously. Keep it up ( and look it up ).

IAMAMORON

Floppybits wrote: »

So are you saying that if you don't vote FF or FG you are just wasting your vote?

Pretty much these days. I mean what other party or independent would be capable of doing anything?

Floppybits wrote: »

I'd also disagree with you on independents just look at Tony Gregory and even the Healy Rae's.

I can't speak for the good people of south Kerry. Tony Gregory got lucky, even he would admit the truth, unlike many posters around here. Shane Ross is an independent , they aren't all erroneous idealists cranking around pointing fingers at everything that moves.

Floppybits

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Good luck with that.... the plan that is.

Let us know how that goes for the lefties.

Only another 30 seats .... that is how far off you are. It is schwinging precariously. Keep it up ( and look it up ).

You seem to think that those 30 seats are unobtainable, I wouldn't be so cocky about that. If you look at the performance of FF and Green you have to ask how many of the 49 seats they have are the going to hold? On their current performance and being generous here you are looking at the Greens losing the majority of their seats and FF losing probably half of theirs if not more.

I can see SF really targeting those Green seats but then again SF need to sort themselves out come up with more realistic policies that will attract more people to them and put more candidates up for election and they could gobble up those FF and Green seats.

The only issue is will SF also gobble up the votes of the other opposition parties like PBP, Soc Dem's and Labour. Like I said I wouldn't be getting too cocky on those 30 seats especially if Martin leads FF into the next election like has said he will.

Floppybits

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Pretty much these days. I mean what other party or independent would be capable of doing anything?

I can't speak for the good people of south Kerry. Tony Gregory got lucky, even he would admit the truth, unlike many posters around here. Shane Ross is an independent , they aren't all erroneous idealists cranking around pointing fingers at everything that moves.

Talk about arrogant, are you so confident that FF can win even 30 seats in the next election if Martin leads them into it. They have not a hope in hell on current performance of getting anywhere near that. FG aren't much of a home either for those voters who are going to turn away from FF. Like I said if SF get their policies sorted and get more candidates out in the next election that could make inroads into that FF vote.

Loafing Oaf

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Good luck with that.... the plan that is.

Let us know how that goes for the lefties.

Only another 30 seats .... that is how far off you are. It is schwinging precariously. Keep it up ( and look it up ).

Where are you getting 30 seats short? I'm taking the Greens as a left party that would be open to supporting a SF-led government. I also believe several of the independents could be persuaded to come on board. If this 'united left alliance' is to be realised though, the main flow of seats after the next election will need to be from FF to SF, as you suggest.

CrazyFather1

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Where are you getting 30 seats short? I'm taking the Greens as a left party that would be open to supporting a SF-led government. I also believe several of the independents could be persuaded to come on board. If this 'united left alliance' is to be realised though, the main flow of seats after the next election will need to be from FF to SF, as you suggest.

Sinn Fein went to Greens last time and that ended up with them going to FF & FG.
With the abuse Sinn Fein supporters and party is giving to the Greens I don't expect they will want to know them next time either.

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Child homelessness.....

Did you look that one up ?

Been an issue for years. Might not have been on your radar but we broke records on the number of homeless children in recent years. Bit of a deal.
Are you aware of the housing and health crises at least?
In any case, there were reasons we saw somewhat of a break from the FF/FG back and forth from the electorate.
People who vote for FF in one election and FG in another and vice versa is a historical fact.

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

<Snip>.

I spoke on the crises. You responded on Covid. If you misspelled fair enough but it read like you were ignoring the crises we traditionally have pre-covid.

RandomViewer

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Sinn Fein went to Greens last time and that ended up with them going to FF & FG.
With the abuse Sinn Fein supporters and party is giving to the Greens I don't expect they will want to know them next time either.

Greens elected on SF transfers, cant see FF/FG transfers going to the Greens, another 10 years of Green in the wilderness, kind of apt, i suppose