FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

Bubbaclaus

RandomViewer wrote: »

Lots of people paying more tax since January
SIMI getting cartel status thanks to VRT + to stop imports,
25% unemployment,
Austerity Budget looming in October
Cost of living will be the decider in the next election, not looking good

I don't think there's going to be an austerity budget. Government seem to be committed to growing our way out of of the covid deficit, given we have the availability this time around of being able to borrow on the market, and at around 0% interest rate.

It's certainly not going to be a giveaway, but I'm not sensing that we are going to get a major tightening of the belt either.

Bubbaclaus

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I don't think there's going to be an austerity budget. Government seem to be committed to growing our way out of of the covid deficit, given we have the availability this time around of being able to borrow on the market, and at around 0% interest rate.

It's certainly not going to be a giveaway, but I'm not sensing that we are going to get a major tightening of the belt either.

I would agree,theres a wealth of money saved into banks etc,it will be initiaves to get people spending again

(whether you agree with consumerism as a concept is another arguement of course,one which may dog the greens in particular)


But austrity as an econmic theory deosnt work in practice,as socitial damage is too severe

Floppybits

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I don't think there's going to be an austerity budget. Government seem to be committed to growing our way out of of the covid deficit, given we have the availability this time around of being able to borrow on the market, and at around 0% interest rate.

It's certainly not going to be a giveaway, but I'm not sensing that we are going to get a major tightening of the belt either.

Hopefully that is the case.

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would agree,theres a wealth of money saved into banks etc,it will be initiaves to get people spending again

(whether you agree with consumerism as a concept is another arguement of course,one which may dog the greens in particular)


But austrity as an econmic theory deosnt work in practice,as socitial damage is too severe

There's around a third of the workforce who have had their wages hit either PUP or Subsidy scheme, theres very little spare cash there and prices have been rising for basic goods, tax credits took a hit as well so lots of people down a few grand this year, when the virus passes the recession will begin

blanch152

James Brown wrote: »

You are saying people were not told they could socialise and dine out/go shopping in the Christmas run up? Or is this one of those times were you imagine what I said and give out about that?

It's very unlikely people coming home from abroad, mixing with co-workers because of their job, service industry staff, frontline workers, suppliers, people in LTCH and covid cluster factory workers played less of a roll in the numbers than people breaking the rules.

Here are the rules, post should be bookmarked. Which bit of them would Scrooge James Brown have changed with the knowledge at the time?

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Just realised I put up a BBC link regarding the restrictions rather than an official government source, so just wanted to update my prior post.

Blaz previously linked to this press release:

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/5b068-ireland-placed-on-level-3-of-the-plan-for-living-with-covid-with-special-measures-for-a-safe-christmas/

"From 1 December:
households should not mix with any other households outside those within their bubble

From 18 December:
households can mix with up to two other households"

So basically, anyone mixing with another household prior to 18 December was breaking restrictions, at a bar table (e.g pints with friends)
or elsewhere. Any socialising with another household post that date was using up one of your max two households that you were allowed mingle with for the christmas period.

Personally, I broke restrictions on 8 December by going for drinks with 3 friends that were from 2 separate households. Fully aware I was breaking them at the time and conscious of potentially spreading Covid amongst households further, I then restricted my movements in the 14 days prior to visiting my parents for Christmas.

Thing is, when those restrictions were announced, the UK variant wasn't thought to be here.

Bubbaclaus

RandomViewer wrote: »

There's around a third of the workforce who have had their wages hit either PUP or Subsidy scheme, theres very little spare cash there and prices have been rising for basic goods, tax credits took a hit as well so lots of people down a few grand this year, when the virus passes the recession will begin

Personal savings in 2020 were the highest on record by a large margin.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Here are the rules, post should be bookmarked. Which bit of them would Scrooge James Brown have changed with the knowledge at the time?


Thing is, when those restrictions were announced, the UK variant wasn't thought to be here.

I see you bypassed my post and answered one you pulled from the ether or somewhere more organic.

These were

prior to 18 December

were they not?

You are saying people were not told they could socialise and dine out/go shopping in the Christmas run up?

I would have had no inside dining. Stay in your bubble and allow curbside pick up for shopping. In the least I would have followed NPHET advice.

By the way, are you seriously calling me 'Scrooge' because I'm critical of the government ignoring NPHET advice? How does this work exactly? The public are at fault for listening to the government and anyone who disagrees with the government is a scrooge? Talk about playing both side :rolleyes:

RandomViewer

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Personal savings in 2020 were the highest on record by a large margin.

For some ,not for everyone, teachers and the like

Bubbaclaus

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Personal savings in 2020 were the highest on record by a large margin.

Of course, the country would be operating as normal if it wasn't for those pesky small business owners and PUP recipients!

McMurphy

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Just realised I put up a BBC link regarding the restrictions rather than an official government source, so just wanted to update my prior post.

Blaz previously linked to this press release:

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/5b068-ireland-placed-on-level-3-of-the-plan-for-living-with-covid-with-special-measures-for-a-safe-christmas/

"From 1 December:
households should not mix with any other households outside those within their bubble

From 18 December:
households can mix with up to two other households"

So basically, anyone mixing with another household prior to 18 December was breaking restrictions, at a bar table (e.g pints with friends)
or elsewhere. Any socialising with another household post that date was using up one of your max two households that you were allowed mingle with for the christmas period.

Personally, I broke restrictions on 8 December by going for drinks with 3 friends that were from 2 separate households. Fully aware I was breaking them at the time and conscious of potentially spreading Covid amongst households further, I then restricted my movements in the 14 days prior to visiting my parents for Christmas.

On the surface, it would appear Leo broke restrictions too so.

“

Leo Varadkar, Nov 27th 2020 wrote:

I have to admit to suffering from cabin fever over the last few weeks, so it will have to be the gym, a haircut on Wednesday and a restaurant at the weekend with some friends I haven’t seen for months, and I really cant wait.

Linky

Irresponsible and selfish apparently, and breaking restrictions too.

Bubbaclaus

Varadkar is truly Current Affairs' Godwin's Law equivalent.

McMurphy

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Varadkar is truly Current Affairs' Godwin's Law equivalent.

He's kinda pertinent to the discussion, seeing as it's a FFG thread, and we're discussing government advice that contradicted NPHETS.

To recap, that means he actually defied the advice NPHET gave, by being part of the govt with FF and Greens, who jointly override it, by releasing their own set of advice and guidelines.

He happens to be not only Tanaiste, but also a Doctor too, therefore a health care professional.

He ignored NPHETs advice, and also ignored the govt advice he helped write.

Like I know you didn't vote for them bubba, though you spend an extraordinary amount of time defending them, but that's a hefty set of protocols he has ignored, both on a personal and professional level.

Point it out, and it's deflection on to something else.

Bubbaclaus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Of course, the country would be operating as normal if it wasn't for those pesky small business owners and PUP recipients!

Not sure what connection that has to my post? I was merely agreeing with Blaaz' comment below. Personal savings were at record levels in 2020.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would agree,theres a wealth of money saved into banks etc,it will be initiaves to get people spending again

Bubbaclaus

McMurphy wrote: »

He's kinda pertinent to the discussion, seeing as it's a FFG thread, and we're discussing government advice that contradicted NPHETS.

To recap, that means he defied the advice NPHET gave, by jointly overriding it releasing their own advice.

He happens to be not only Tanaiste, but also a Doctor too, therefore a health care professional.

He ignored NPHETs advice, and also ignored the govt advice he helped write.

Like I know you didn't vote for them bubba, though you spend an extraordinary amount of time defending them, but that's a hefty set of protocols he has ignored, both on a personal and professional level.

Point it out, and it's deflection on to something else.

Point out where I defended him McMurphy? My post about the restrictions in December made no reference to him at all. Stating that he is the Goodwin's Law equivalent for these threads isn't defending him.

McMurphy

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Point out where I defended him McMurphy? My post about the restrictions in December made no reference to him at all. Stating that he is the Goodwin's Law equivalent for these threads isn't defending him.

You might need to reread my post again.

You. Spend. An. Extraordinary. Amount. Of. Time. Defending them.

I didn't say you defended him breaking his own, and NPHETs guidelines.

And no, I'm not going to start linking to posts were you defend Leo/FG to the hilt.

Your posts are riddled with examples across the forum as a whole.

Bubbaclaus

McMurphy wrote: »

You might need to reread my post again.

You. Spend. An. Extraordinary. Amount. Of. Time. Defending them.

I didn't say you defended him breaking his own, and NPHETs guidelines.

And no, I'm not going to start linking to posts were you defend Leo/FG to the hilt.

Your posts are riddled with examples across the forum as a whole.

Throwing out statements about me whilst not bothering to back them up at all. Standard.

McMurphy

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Throwing out statements about me whilst not bothering to back them up at all. Standard.

Jesus H Christ, if you have issue, and take umbrage with me stating something which is completely factual, IE, that you have a posting history that has many examples of defending FG members, and/or policies take it to a mod, and ask them to adjudicate or else stop defending them, and then people might stop mixing you up with someone who defends them to the hilt.

I'm cool with whatever road you want to go down regardless horse.

Bubbaclaus

McMurphy wrote: »

Jesus H Christ, if you have issue, and take umbrage with me stating something which is completely factual, IE, that you have a posting history that has many examples of defending FG members, and/or policies take it to a mod, and ask them to adjudicate or else stop defending them, and people won't get mistaken.

I'm cool with whatever road you want to go down regardless horse.

Why would I bother a mod with such nonsense?

I defend members of all parties on here from sensationalism. I defend based on the facts of the case, not the party they are a part of. The fact you dislike me defending certain people isn't my issue.

McMurphy

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Why would I bother a mod with such nonsense?

I defend members of all parties on here from sensationalism. I defend based on the facts of the case, not the party they are a part of. The fact you dislike me defending certain people isn't my issue.

Why do you think I dislike you defending them? I just think you may be a little economical with the truth surrounding your voting preferences, that's all.

Prob a green voter.

Bubbaclaus

McMurphy wrote: »

Why do you think I dislike you defending them? I just think you may be a little economical with the truth surrounding your voting preferences, that's all.

Prob a green voter.

Don't worry about my voting preferences McMurphy, they change like the wind and aren't that interesting.

McMurphy

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Don't worry about my voting preferences McMurphy, they change like the wind and aren't that interesting.

I don't worry about them bubs, I am just passing comment about posts you made in this very forum.

If you didn't volunteer the information, it wouldn't have commented on it - it's that simple.

We'll leave it there so.

Bubbaclaus

McMurphy wrote: »

I don't worry about them bubs, I am just passing comment about posts you made in this very forum.

If you didn't volunteer the information, it wouldn't have commented on it - it's that simple.

We'll leave it there so.

Suppose it's only fair that if you started this randomly then you can decide to end it too.

blanch152

James Brown wrote: »

I see you bypassed my post and answered one you pulled from the ether or somewhere more organic.

These were were they not?

You are saying people were not told they could socialise and dine out/go shopping in the Christmas run up?

I would have had no inside dining. Stay in your bubble and allow curbside pick up for shopping. In the least I would have followed NPHET advice.

By the way, are you seriously calling me 'Scrooge' because I'm critical of the government ignoring NPHET advice? How does this work exactly? The public are at fault for listening to the government and anyone who disagrees with the government is a scrooge? Talk about playing both side :rolleyes:

Prior to 18 December - 1 other household

After 18 December - max of 2 other households over Christmas, be careful with elderly relatives.

Now, explain to me how that is reckless, the problem is, as the anecdotes on here have shown, is that they were widely ignored.

FrancieBrady

Bottom line:
Did the lifting of restrictions in a way that ignored expert advice result in a massive surge in cases and death = YES

Did the government leader admit that opening up was a mistake = YES.

Therefore it was a mistake and people suffered and died needlessly.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bottom line:
Did the lifting of restrictions in a way that ignored expert advice result in a massive surge in cases and death = YES

Did the government leader admit that opening up was a mistake = YES.

Therefore it was a mistake and people suffered and died needlessly.

Example: Mummy, daddy, little darlings, uncle, auntie and their little darlings have dinner with paternal grandparents and great grandma Christmas Day. So far so good.
Then Stephens Day, mummy, daddy, little darlings, another uncle, auntie and their teenage darlings dine with maternal grandparents.
Technically, they were ok in that three families mixed each day.
The stupidity arises in them thinking that what they did was ok.
But, shur, Twas ok. Da gubberment said so!

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Example: Mummy, daddy, little darlings, uncle, auntie and their little darlings have dinner with paternal grandparents and great grandma Christmas Day. So far so good.
Then Stephens Day, mummy, daddy, little darlings, another uncle, auntie and their teenage darlings dine with maternal grandparents.
Technically, they were ok in that three families mixed each day.
The stupidity arises in them thinking that what they did was ok.
But, shur, Twas ok. Da gubberment said so!

Example: Government ignores expert medical advice.

After huge surge, suffering and death, government admits they made a mistake.

Government made a mistake = end of conversation, STOP blaming ordinary people who have shown multiple times that they are willing to follow government guidelines. THIS TIME the government gave the wrong MISTAKEN guidance and people died.
Time to move on and make sure the same mistakes are not made again.

FrancieBrady

Can we hope that expensive lessons have been learned?

https://www.newstalk.com/news/taoiseach-any-re-opening-will-be-conservative-and-cautious-1147706?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1612865943

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Example: Government ignores expert medical advice.

After huge surge, suffering and death, government admits they made a mistake.

Government made a mistake = end of conversation, STOP blaming ordinary people who have shown multiple times that they are willing to follow government guidelines. THIS TIME the government gave the wrong MISTAKEN guidance and people died.
Time to move on and make sure the same mistakes are not made again.

The advice given was to limit visits to 2 other families only. Not 2 other families every day! And to keep visits to elderly as brief as possible, socially distancing, windows open. The example I gave ignored this. They only heard 2 other families.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

The advice given was to limit visits to 2 other families only. Not 2 other families every day! And to keep visits to elderly as brief as possible, socially distancing, windows open. The example I gave ignored this. They only heard 2 other families.

It's over Maryanne84. Stop please. You are disrespecting those who have suffered and died. The public are not perfect. Nor are the government.

Example: Government ignores expert medical advice.

After huge surge, suffering and death, government admits they made a mistake.

The government have to take their share of the blame, and it is by far the majority share.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's over Maryanne84. Stop please. You are disrespecting those who have suffered and died. The public are not perfect. Nor are the government.

Example: Government ignores expert medical advice.

After huge surge, suffering and death, government admits they made a mistake.

The government have to take their share of the blame, and it is by far the majority share.

So have the people.