FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

So have the people.

They have Maryanne, they have responded to the regulations and requests made of them magnificently, in the vast majority of cases.

You demean them very time you divert the blame for government 'mistakes' to them.

You have consistently done this all the way through the pandemic aided and abetted by others here.

In the respectful memory of all those who have suffered and died you should accept that a massive mistake was made and stop doing it.

Bubbaclaus

It would be an interesting simulation to run to see how things would have ended up if people had stuck to the restrictions of not mixing with any other household before 18 December, and mixing with 2 other households for the couple of weeks after.

To be honest, I am not aware of a single person that followed the restrictions, in particular the pre 18 December ones (myself included). People went for dinner and drinks with friends outside their household. That's fine, nobody is perfect when it comes to keeping within restrictions. But they would also be aware of the risks of that household mixing and the potential to bring covid into their own household as a result.

It was a mistake by the government to open up the restaurants (despite the public support) and expect people to stick to the household restrictions that were in place. It just wasn't going to happen. There is no way for a restaurant to police tables and determine if they are all of the one household, so it would have been impossible to enforce.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They have Maryanne, they have responded to the regulations and requests made of them magnificently, in the vast majority of cases.

You demean them very time you divert the blame for government 'mistakes' to them.

You have consistently done this all the way through the pandemic aided and abetted by others here.

In the respectful memory of all those who have suffered and died you should accept that a massive mistake was made and stop doing it.

It seems, it would have been made, no matter who was in govt. Hindsight is, 20/20.
https://www.facebook.com/sinnfein/videos/236387647821585/

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It seems, it would have been made, no matter who was in govt. Hindsight is, 20/20.
https://www.facebook.com/sinnfein/videos/236387647821585/

It doesn't matter who was in government...it was a mistake made by government.

Do you want to criticise the government = NO, you want to point here there and everywhere to divert away from that government and their mistake.
Speaks for itself.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's over Maryanne84. Stop please. You are disrespecting those who have suffered and died. The public are not perfect. Nor are the government.

Example: Government ignores expert medical advice.

After huge surge, suffering and death, government admits they made a mistake.

The government have to take their share of the blame, and it is by far the majority share.

You know, despite the arguments made here about the mess made by the government, I look again at the figures for here and the North, and find that once again, the North is faring worse. This is despite Boris and Brexit having got them more vaccines.

If the majority share for bad outcomes is the responsibility of governments, then our government has performed well compared to our neighbours.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They have Maryanne, they have responded to the regulations and requests made of them magnificently, in the vast majority of cases.

You demean them very time you divert the blame for government 'mistakes' to them.

You have consistently done this all the way through the pandemic aided and abetted by others here.

In the respectful memory of all those who have suffered and died you should accept that a massive mistake was made and stop doing it.

Absolute rubbish and you know it.

You will use anything to throw mud at FG. Anything.

You are trying to back out of a ridiculous situation you got yourself into yesterday, by shifting the spotlight away from your despicable mistake and onto a genuine poster.

I said yesterday I thought you couldn’t sink lower- I was wrong.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It doesn't matter who was in government...it was a mistake made by government.

Do you want to criticise the government = NO, you want to point here there and everywhere to divert away from that government and their mistake.
Speaks for itself.

I see the truth, no spin, the reaction of the govt to Xmas was what was called for and abused by a very large contingent of people.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You know, despite the arguments made here about the mess made by the government, I look again at the figures for here and the North, and find that once again, the North is faring worse. This is despite Boris and Brexit having got them more vaccines.

If the majority share for bad outcomes is the responsibility of governments, then our government has performed well compared to our neighbours.

Which is MORE pointing, here there and everywhere.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Absolute rubbish and you know it.

You will use anything to throw mud at FG. Anything.

You are trying to back out of a ridiculous situation you got yourself into yesterday, by shifting the spotlight away from your despicable mistake and onto a genuine poster.

I said yesterday I thought you couldn’t sink lower- I was wrong.

Over sensitivity there Brendi.

The government leader who admitted to the 'mistake' is a member of the FF party, the last time I looked.

I made NO mistake yesterday. And actually was saying the exact same thing I am saying today.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Over sensitivity there Brendi.

The government leader who admitted to the 'mistake' is a member of the FF party, the last time I looked.

I made NO mistake yesterday. And actually was saying the exact same thing I am saying today.

I’m well aware of what party he is a member of, FG is the party you hate, Francie, you can’t weasel out of that.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I’m well aware of what party he is a member of, FG is the party you hate, Francie, you can’t weasel out of that.

I don't hate anyone Brendi.

I want to see the end of the toxic power swap/now merger in this country.

You made a mistake and thought someone was attacking your party here...no probs. Just pointing out your mistake.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Which is MORE pointing, here there and everywhere.

You spend your life pointing in one direction only. A sad way to be.

The rest of us look around and see many other things.

I have criticised FF for DeValera, for Jack Lynch's giveaway election, for the 2008 crisis etc. I have praised them for the 100% about-turn by Lemass advised by Whitaker.

I have criticised FG for their failures on environmental policy, for not increasing LPT and wealth taxes, for abandoning water charges, while praising them for their steady hand on the economy.

I have criticised the Greens for being too interested in non-core topics of little interest to their voters while praising them for their initiatives in government like the Waste Management Plan and the forthcoming Climate Action Plan and revised NDP.

You just criticise everyone except Sinn Fein, no matter what.

Whether you like it or not, this government has handled the pandemic well, better than Northern Ireland, better than the rest of the UK, better than Sweden (I wonder where those posters are who advocated the Swedish approach?), better than most of our European neighbours. Them's the facts, you can have your opinion as to what small adjustments might have saved lives here or there, or you can pathetically point to the small window of two or three days when we were the worst in the world ad nauseum as another poster does, but you can't get away from the facts of the big numbers - we are in the round doing ok with the pandemic.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't hate anyone Brendi.

I want to see the end of the toxic power swap/now merger in this country.

You made a mistake and thought someone was attacking your party here...no probs. Just pointing out your mistake.

Is that the toxic power swap that has made us top 10 of best countries to live in?
Is that the toxic power swap that has made us top 10 of countries for equitable income taxation?
Is that the toxic power swap that has made us top 3 for incoming FDI per capita?
Is that the toxic power swap that has made us top 15 of least corrupt countries?

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

Is that the toxic power swap that has made us top 15 of least corrupt countries?

This one made me lol the most

Fann Linn

blanch152 wrote: »

Is that the toxic power swap that has made us top 10 of best countries to live in?
Is that the toxic power swap that has made us top 10 of countries for equitable income taxation?
Is that the toxic power swap that has made us top 3 for incoming FDI per capita?
Is that the toxic power swap that has made us top 15 of least corrupt countries?

#Moriarty

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Whether you like it or not, this government has handled the pandemic well,

There is a simple test of that: Ask those needlessly and profoundly affected by the mistake Micheál Martin admitted to, how the government has handled the pandemic.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is a simple test of that: Ask those needlessly and profoundly affected by the mistake Micheál Martin admitted to, how the government has handled the pandemic.

The mistake is easy to see in hindsight.
But all major political partys were in favour of the mistake, all, so it was going to happen.
People made it happen and will continue to do so everytime we ease restrictions.

grayzer75

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The mistake is easy to see in hindsight.
But all major political partys were in favour of the mistake, all, so it was going to happen.
People made it happen and will continue to do so everytime we ease restrictions.

Did NPHET not warn the government not to do it but the government ignored the warning i.e. foresight.......

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The mistake is easy to see in hindsight.
But all major political partys were in favour of the mistake, all, so it was going to happen.
People made it happen and will continue to do so everytime we ease restrictions.

They had preciously ignored NPHET advice (the Leo incident on CB) and had to row back on it in approx a week!

They had made the same mistake.

'People made it happen'???? That is just defensive rubbish tbh.

Question is, will they make the same mistake again?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Prior to 18 December - 1 other household

After 18 December - max of 2 other households over Christmas, be careful with elderly relatives.

Now, explain to me how that is reckless, the problem is, as the anecdotes on here have shown, is that they were widely ignored.

So no eating out, no shopping?

This has been covered. They were given two options. They chose both. Cases rose.

What was the mistake Martin admitted to? That's a head scratcher...

Loafing Oaf

blanch152 wrote: »

This is pretty accurate.

It was only Micheal Martin's knowledge and memory of what Sinn Fein really are and his abhorrence of that that prevented a FF/SF coalition last year. Others in FF are well capable of putting decency aside and doing business with SF.

FF TDs would not exclude Sinn Féin coalition after next election

So I guess Martin's memory must be failing him

Taoiseach Micheál Martin appeared to soften his stance on the prospect of Fianna Fáil negotiating with Mary Lou McDonald’s party, suggesting it “may evolve depending on policy”.

And for 'others', read virtually every FF TD prepared to offer an opinion

almost every Fianna Fáil TD who responded to queries from The Irish Times expressed a willingness to sit down with Sinn Féin after the next election.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

You know, despite the arguments made here about the mess made by the government, I look again at the figures for here and the North, and find that once again, the North is faring worse. This is despite Boris and Brexit having got them more vaccines.

If the majority share for bad outcomes is the responsibility of governments, then our government has performed well compared to our neighbours.

Is this you not using the figures elsewhere to deflect from FF/FG/Greens? You do this repeatedly and then deny it so it's confusing. Do you know when you are doing it?
How come you don't make the same arguments about the north, the public are at fault, government made mistakes but did well, it was the people etc. etc.?
Again, if you want to play top trumps with the victims of the pandemic, 'worst in the world' has it I reckon.

FrancieBrady

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

FF TDs would not exclude Sinn Féin coalition after next election

So I guess Martin's memory must be failing him


And for 'others', read virtually every FF TD prepared to offer an opinion

I got laughed at by posters like Shefwedfan when I suggested Martin was leading FF away from it's republican base.

Seems I was right.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

You spend your life pointing in one direction only. A sad way to be.

The rest of us look around and see many other things.

I have criticised FF for DeValera, for Jack Lynch's giveaway election, for the 2008 crisis etc. I have praised them for the 100% about-turn by Lemass advised by Whitaker.

I have criticised FG for their failures on environmental policy, for not increasing LPT and wealth taxes, for abandoning water charges, while praising them for their steady hand on the economy.

I have criticised the Greens for being too interested in non-core topics of little interest to their voters while praising them for their initiatives in government like the Waste Management Plan and the forthcoming Climate Action Plan and revised NDP.

You just criticise everyone except Sinn Fein, no matter what.

Whether you like it or not, this government has handled the pandemic well, better than Northern Ireland, better than the rest of the UK, better than Sweden (I wonder where those posters are who advocated the Swedish approach?), better than most of our European neighbours. Them's the facts, you can have your opinion as to what small adjustments might have saved lives here or there, or you can pathetically point to the small window of two or three days when we were the worst in the world ad nauseum as another poster does, but you can't get away from the facts of the big numbers - we are in the round doing ok with the pandemic.

Is this you not attacking the poster? It's hard to tell because you say you don't do that.
What has Francie's views or opinions, even ones you make up, got to do with the issues raised? Can you not address the issues raised?

Ireland was 'worst in the world', thems a fact. Using victims to deflect from government is pretty low 'debate'.

James Brown

Fann Linn wrote: »

#Moriarty

They found they weren't corrupt. Sounds legit. As believable when FG told us Noonan was grand

Loafing Oaf

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I got laughed at by posters like Shefwedfan when I suggested Martin was leading FF away from it's republican base.

Seems I was right.

Not sure about that, all indications are FF grassroots were happy with the anti-SF line before the last election

Fianna Fáil members have voted overwhelmingly against entering any coalition government with Sinn Féin.


Course we have yet to see how they would answer the same question in current circumstances...

FrancieBrady

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Not sure about that, all indications are FF grassroots were happy with the anti-SF line before the last election

Fianna Fáil members have voted overwhelmingly against entering any coalition government with Sinn Féin.


Course we have yet to see how they would answer the same question in current circumstances...

No doubt that Martin led them at that point, they were willing to go with him. But there was never a natural reluctance to coalescing with SF at grassroot level IMO Now that Martin's gambit has failed in therms of rescuing them in the polls, the wise are looking to the next election and reverting.

blanch152

James Brown wrote: »

Is this you not using the figures elsewhere to deflect from FF/FG/Greens? You do this repeatedly and then deny it so it's confusing. Do you know when you are doing it?
How come you don't make the same arguments about the north, the public are at fault, government made mistakes but did well, it was the people etc. etc.?
Again, if you want to play top trumps with the victims of the pandemic, 'worst in the world' has it I reckon.

The numbers in any country mean nothing in isolation. The location, the context of your neighbours etc are all required to get a picture of how a country is doing.

Perhaps it is the people down South who are behaving better due to the different culture between the two and the government has little or no responsibility for how we are doing. Perhaps it is the way the responsibility was quickly accepted by Ministers like Dara Calleary for their actions in comparison to Michelle O'Neill and the funeral which made the difference because of the example shown. Perhaps it is the way the government that has handled it that has made the difference.

I am just pointing out to the government critics, of which you are one, that if you blame the government down South as being mainly responsible for the numbers down South, then we are lucky we got that government because the numbers are worse in the North and in the rest of the UK and most of Europe.

FrancieBrady

I'd like to congratulate the people of the north for their vacine rollout and on getting their numbers down to the 200's today.

I hope our government have gotten over what ever problem they had in contacting and are liaising with their counterparts to ensure we re-open society with the best chance of suppressing this awfulness.

This is not the time for political one-upmanship and macabre competitions. Own house in order first etc etc.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

The numbers in any country mean nothing in isolation. The location, the context of your neighbours etc are all required to get a picture of how a country is doing.

Perhaps it is the people down South who are behaving better due to the different culture between the two and the government has little or no responsibility for how we are doing. Perhaps it is the way the responsibility was quickly accepted by Ministers like Dara Calleary for their actions in comparison to Michelle O'Neill and the funeral which made the difference because of the example shown. Perhaps it is the way the government that has handled it that has made the difference.

I am just pointing out to the government critics, of which you are one, that if you blame the government down South as being mainly responsible for the numbers down South, then we are lucky we got that government because the numbers are worse in the North and in the rest of the UK and most of Europe.

The discussion was moves made at Christmas and how cases rose and Martin said it was a mistake. How worse or better they are faring elsewhere serves only to deflect.

Are you seriously still banging on about the funeral from several months ago and comparing it to the FF/FG/Green government making up their own rules at Christmas? Should I raise Clifden? no, because it's not relevant IMO.

Martin stated they made a mistake in not following NPHET advice. That's the discussion. How the north is doing means little or nothing. The rates over Christmas had nothing to do with MON or Flanagan attending funerals early last year.

We are lucky because 'it's worse elsewhere'. The FF/FG bar of not being worst isn't up to scratch quite frankly. Especially considering we were 'worst in the world' and that was dismissed anyway :rolleyes: