FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

markodaly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

The medical lobby then pushed for a massive overspend?

The blame culture is strong in FG.

The cost overruns of the NCH has been done to death, in other threads.
We all know its too simplistic to 'blame da Guberment' when in reality the people running the project, the Civil Service lacked both the experience and expertise in running a project of this scale.

Now, if a party comes out and says ' We need to reform the civil service to make it more accountable and modern' will have my vote, but the thing with Irish politics is, that no party, especially of the left will ever say that because they want to have the Unions in their pocket.

markodaly

RandomViewer wrote: »

British army with air support couldn't close the border few fatlads fresh from Templemore in a clapped out Hyundai estate wouldnt have much hope hundred and something crossing compared to a dozen airports and sea ports even the most moronic FG devotee can see which would be easier

You don't need to close the border 100%, you just need to make it difficult enough for people to cross whereby the movement of people is significantly reduced to a trickle.

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its always everyone elses fault with em

No need for responsibility,when they can simply blame everyone else,as per fcuking usual

Their funnelling funds to everyone's favorite taxpayer funded billionaire again, this is fraud

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

of course,blame everyone else,all the time

Nothing will ever change in this country

No, the first thing we as a nation need to do, is actually pointing the finger at ourselves.

We love to skirt personal responsibility in this country, the government is used as the ubiquitous punching bag. Sometimes they deserve it, but most times it is us at fault.

Families skiting the rules, then blaming the government when people get sick and die? Come off it!! Who are you fooling? Maybe some angry people on Twitter.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Its always everyone elses fault with em

No need for responsibility,when they can simply blame everyone else,as per fcuking usual

Yep. Usually blame da gubberment. No need for personal responsibility.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

BAM put in for 300 million extra today,this is ultimately to be signed off by government

They can pull plug on this line of discussion,by pulling plug on the NCH... until then,surely its relevent to discussion on the government??

So, the government pulls the plug on a project that has already cost in excess of €1 Billion.... and we are left with a shell of a building, that is left to rot and no hospital?!

Yeap, what a fantastic idea that is!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

blanch152

markodaly wrote: »

You don't need to close the border 100%, you just need to make it difficult enough for people to cross whereby the movement of people is significantly reduced to a trickle.

The good republicans would ignore that. Diesel laundering and cigarette smuggling are essential services.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Wasnt this orginally supposed to cost 600M

Theres a certain masochistic way about ffg and public money,with their unwillingness to draw a halt to excess and throw good money after bad,

They done same with PPARS and e-voting machines....before eventually admitting it wasnt worth the sunk cost

So you are doubling down. You say the project should be just cancelled ASAP and no new Children's hospital to be built!

Laughable!

Cluedo Monopoly

markodaly wrote: »

The cost overruns of the NCH has been done to death, in other threads.
We all know its too simplistic to 'blame da Guberment' when in reality the people running the project, the Civil Service lacked both the experience and expertise in running a project of this scale.

Now, if a party comes out and says ' We need to reform the civil service to make it more accountable and modern' will have my vote, but the thing with Irish politics is, that no party, especially of the left will ever say that because they want to have the Unions in their pocket.

To be honest that's loser talk.

Sure why not add another 2 billion to it and just blame inexperience in the civil service - First ever hospital in Ireland, we hadn't a rats how to do it and nobody else did either. And you know how we hate paying for consultants and advisers....blah blah

You might readily accept mediocre in life, most people don't.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you sure,you've not fallen into a sunk cost fallacy??



Seems obvious to me,BAM have every intention of bleeding the state dry here....and yourself and the government are obviously ok with it.


Can you gaurantee it will be delivered under BAMs interanal pre-covid estimate of 3.2 billion?

Do you believe a government,who allows capital projects to run 530 odd% over budget,should resign.....or will you stay cheerleading irregardless of cost??


Like,i have no issue with capital expense,just seems to me,like everything involving privitisation here,results in the state getting fleeced

So much here, so little time....

Again, you seem to be of the idea, that we can just cancel a project that has already cost €1 billion euro. Even SF arent advocating that. Why? Because its one of the most stupidest idea I've heard in a long while.

On BAM, Leo himself suggested that if it were up to him, BAM would never get a state contract again, but the thing is, it's not up to him. Politicians cannot choose who gets to tender a contract. It is the law.

€3.2 Billion? Pulling numbers out of thin air there.

The NCH has been beset with delays – some due to the Covid-19 pandemic – and there has been controversy over the construction costs which are set to top €1.4 billion.

The final sum to be spent on the hospital – including its fit-out – is expected to be more than €1.7 billion though there are concerns that it will be higher.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/children-s-hospital-behind-schedule-and-may-not-open-until-2024-pac-hears-1.4480093

If governments had to resign over every project that went over budget, we would be having new elections, across the world every 3-6 months. Stupid suggestion.

As per privatisation, no idea what point are you making here. Do you think that the government should set up a development company explicitly to build this hospital for us? Otherwise a stupid point to make.

markodaly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

To be honest that's loser talk.

Sure why not add another 2 billion to it and just blame inexperience in the civil service - First ever hospital in Ireland, we hadn't a rats how to do it and nobody else did either. And you know how we hate paying for consultants and advisers....blah blah

You might readily accept mediocre in life, most people don't.

Oh not at all, but I'm not one for simple soundbites and toddler talk about blaming 'da guberment'.

The reasons as to WHY there are cost overruns are there to all to see, therefore one needs to examine the root causes of this.

I would be fully in favour of reforming the civil service and making people accountable in there for their mistakes. The question is, would other political parties do the same and would the Unions play ball?

Or.... people can just vent and blame da guberment and nothing changes.

smurgen

The answer to all the Government's incompetence seems to be over parties made them do it or other parties would be no better. Thank God we can all sit back and enjoy the **** show now we understand the simplicity of it all.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Why can we not??
Seems to me,we have paid out more than was orginally contracted for?

Is this a serious suggestion?
What do you propose? Get some IRA heavies and get workers to finish the hospital at gun point?

this is BAM internal estimate,john pauls are claiming covid is adding 20% cost to everything


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/children-s-hospital-behind-schedule-and-may-not-open-until-2024-pac-hears-1.4480093

No where is the figure €3.2 Billion mentioned, so you just made it up.

In other words there is no expense to steep,that would cause yous to call for the government to resign,even when indivudual projects run billions over budget....we certainly ger goveernments we deserve

You are missing the point, projects the world over, over-run. This is just a fact and governments don't resign left right and centre because of it.

I ser no problem with a state development agency,to oversee all capital projects,seems obvious to me the present government hasnt a clue and handed bam a blank chequebook and no amount of excess expense will be critised by them or their supporters

Oh, so you are advocating some sort of State-owned development company full of thousands of employees directly employed and paid for by the state. Tell me, when the hospital is finished, what do the workers do then?

Are you also aware this is against EU competition law?

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

The answer to all the Government's incompetence seems to be over parties made them do it or other parties would be no better. Thank God we can all sit back and enjoy the **** show now we understand the simplicity of it all.

That is an awful way to talk about what the coronavirus is doing to the world.

Accusations of making political points from people dying have been flying around but this is as low as you can get.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Its an internal BAM figure as ive said,whether you choose to believe it or not is immaterial to me,but i have no reason to doubt it

An internal figure that only you seem to know.... ok got it. :rolleyes:

Except i havnt said close to this,why are you so child like in your replies,its a bit cringy reading em??a board to oversee state contracts,....the public accounts committee is clearly unable to give level of oversight required

Wonder who the chairman of PAC is.... hmmmm, I guess he should resign... :P

smurgen

Deleted User wrote: »

its a pity for yous then,that he posted it in middle of a conversation on the childrens hospiteal??



Seems to me,only 1 poster making light of cv19 here for cheap likes

Heard today they couldn't provide an estimate of the NCH cost to the nearest hundred million euro. Same lads waxing lyrical about the magic money tree.:pac:

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the whole thing should be disbanded....its time to pull the plug on it and this government.....300 million extra bam asked for today

Wheres logic in throwing good money after bad.....ffg have learnt zero since the time of evoting machines

It should start with the Chairman of PAC resigning both his position at PAC and his seat at the Dail. :cool:

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

Just to correct this bit of False News... the site location of the NCH was agreed in 2006 to be in the Mater site, but planning permissions was refused in 2012, thus a new location at St. James was chosen.

What false news? You're making **** up now.
Never mentioned the location boss...

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

That is an awful way to talk about what the coronavirus is doing to the world.

Accusations of making political points from people dying have been flying around but this is as low as you can get.

Not flying around, from you. You do it. It's been pointed out. You did it earlier.

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

Heard today they couldn't provide an estimate of the NCH cost to the nearest hundred million euro. Same lads waxing lyrical about the magic money tree.:pac:

Thats only when its needed by the public.

smurgen

Jesus Dublin being lead by the Tory policy now. Literally one of the most incompetence government the Brits have had in generations and they're forcing our lads to action. We must have gotten the most possible mix of politicians at the worst time.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1359176724475482120?s=19

FrancieBrady

smurgen wrote: »

Jesus Dublin being lead by the Tory policy now. Literally one of the most incompetence government the Brits have had in generations and they're forcing our lads to action. We must have gotten the most possible mix of politicians at the worst time.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1359176724475482120?s=19

But he wouldn't respond to contact from his counterpart in the north? Strange.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

Jesus Dublin being lead by the Tory policy now. Literally one of the most incompetence government the Brits have had in generations and they're forcing our lads to action. We must have gotten the most possible mix of politicians at the worst time.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1359176724475482120?s=19

The two-island approach building on the CTA has always been the way to go.

Cluedo Monopoly

smurgen wrote: »

Jesus Dublin being lead by the Tory policy now. Literally one of the most incompetence government the Brits have had in generations and they're forcing our lads to action. We must have gotten the most possible mix of politicians at the worst time.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1359176724475482120?s=19

Always reactive, never proactive. History will not be good to this shambles.

Bishop of hope

Looks like my closing the border point is gaining traction.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/unionists-back-calls-for-covid-border-checks-in-northern-ireland-like-those-in-republic-40072835.html

markodaly

blanch152 wrote: »

The two-island approach building on the CTA has always been the way to go.

This, the north is/was a lost cause.

The DUP were never going to agree with closing off GB
SF was never going to agree to close off the Irish border.

So, it takes the big boys in the Dublin and London government to make the decisions, while the children in the North throw $hit out the window, thinking they are great!!

grayzer75

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Looks like my closing the border point is gaining traction.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/unionists-back-calls-for-covid-border-checks-in-northern-ireland-like-those-in-republic-40072835.html

There hasn't been checks at the border on the A1/N1 since before Christmas. There's random Covid checkpoints throughout each county alright but no specific border checks.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

The DUP were never going to agree with closing off GB

Did the government call them out on this?
Seems to me if SF do something wrong in the North, FG, FF are all over them criticising them and calling for action. Not so, when it comes to the DUP.

blanch152

markodaly wrote: »

This, the north is/was a lost cause.

The DUP were never going to agree with closing off GB
SF was never going to agree to close off the Irish border.

So, it takes the big boys in the Dublin and London government to make the decisions, while the children in the North throw $hit out the window, thinking they are great!!

It is much better economically to look at a two-island solution to Covid.

Yes, neither set of sectarian parties in the North will favour a two-island solution and our resident serial protestors will find some reason to object, but it is the most sensible medium-term solution.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

It is much better economically to look at a two-island solution to Covid.

Yes, neither set of sectarian parties in the North will favour a two-island solution and our resident serial protestors will find some reason to object, but it is the most sensible medium-term solution.

There is not two island approach, there's not even a single approach on this island and all the while people get sick and die.

The two island approach which should have been followed was New Zealand.