FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

Floppybits

Floppybits wrote: »

How can you be sure this is true? It is very convenient a story like this crops up just as we are going into lockdown. Hard to know who or what to believe anymore and before you say it RTE are paragons of virtue here.

It was on more than the dastardly RTÉ!

PommieBast

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Pubs have had it for 2020 it seems too.
https://m.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/christmas-pints-may-be-cancelled-as-pubs-told-its-unlikely-theyll-reopen-this-year-39645382.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=webpush&utm_campaign=pubs+christmas+%28xtremepush+%2344011210%29&utm_term=notification+%23%7B%7Bunique_id%7D%7D&utm_content=A

Hardly surprising. Based on the government's form they may well not reopen before the anniversary of their closure, assuming they survive at all.


The FT quotes Leo's estimate of 150,000 people losing their jobs.

Floppybits

Deleted User wrote: »

It was on more than the dastardly RTÉ!

So was Enda meeting a man with 2 pints, it still doesn't make it true though.

Truthvader

The government clearly made a bad call and should have followed the advice and locked down two weeks ago. No need to imply or import stupid conspiracy theories and Sinn Fein hatred of all things "Leo". Still think they are doing their best with a very unpredictable national health issue and notwithstanding the clear error see little option but to follow the advice and try to get through this

McMurphy

Truthvader wrote: »

The government clearly made a bad call and should have followed the advice and locked down two weeks ago. No need to imply or import stupid conspiracy theories and Sinn Fein hatred of all things "Leo". Still think they are doing their best with a very unpredictable national health issue and notwithstanding the clear error see little option but to follow the advice and try to get through this

https://twitter.com/spochadoir/status/1315391501061566466?s=20

Floppybits

Truthvader wrote: »

The government clearly made a bad call and should have followed the advice and locked down two weeks ago. No need to imply or import stupid conspiracy theories and Sinn Fein hatred of all things "Leo". Still think they are doing their best with a very unpredictable national health issue and notwithstanding the clear error see little option but to follow the advice and try to get through this

I don't think they made a bad call staying a level 3, the bad call was Leo berating NPHET on Claire Byrne. If the numbers had of gone down in the 2 weeks everyone would be singing their praises but unfortunately they didn't and they have made the decision to go into lockdown. I see nothing wrong with that.

What I am annoyed as is the lack of the effort being put in by government to get the structures in place to allow us all to live with COVID. There is not point in these lockdowns if the track and trace or the health services are not going to be set up to handle this. We cannot keep up this cycle of locking down and opening up. As I said before this is the last chance saloon in terms of lockdowns if they don't manage to get a handle on things after this then it is going to be harder to implement other lockdowns.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/spochadoir/status/1315391501061566466?s=20

A very mature post.

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

A very mature post.

No self-reflection in reposting it here.

Nobotty

I dont think level 3 was wrong either
You have yo know where you are before knowing where you are going

We've also learned that the slowest reopening in Europe was the right decision
Imagine where we would be now given public irresponsibility if we had opened pubs in june

blanch152

Nobotty wrote: »

I dont think level 3 was wrong either
You have yo know where you are before knowing where you are going

We've also learned that the slowest reopening in Europe was the right decision
Imagine where we would be now given public irresponsibility if we had opened pubs in june

If we had reopened pubs in June, we would be where the North is, at three times our current rate. Serious mistakes were made there.

The_Brood

blanch152 wrote: »

Except the statistics don't back you up. The positivity rate from school environments is far lower than the positivity rate from the general community.

Schools have nowhere been shown to be linked to the spread of the disease in any major way.

My first point explains EXACTLY why you are wrong. This is not complicated stuff. It really isn't. Children with the virus don't display strong symptoms, they are not tested as much = rate apparently lower for children. But they spread it to the adults, who show harsher symptoms, are tested more = higher rate for adults.

Children suffer less but spread it just as much. This is backed up by every single last medical study done on this topic. Fantasy coookoo land the Irish government is in - and they are punishing us all.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Sure, I understand that, but blaming Govt is a cop out.
I was in Longford the other day, I met several people from Cavan shopping in the stores in town. They were from a level 4 County and not supposed to be there
So I can see the sense of the all Ireland lockdown because of that. But that's the problem, not that restrictions weren't in place, just ignored.

Who's blaming government for peoples personal choices? You're confusing piss poor management of restrictions and protocol with the individual.
Again, poorly managed and unclear guidance is the issue with FF/FG. Not blaming them for people choosing to be foolish.

dundalkfc10

The_Brood wrote: »

My first point explains EXACTLY why you are wrong. This is not complicated stuff. It really isn't. Children with the virus don't display strong symptoms, they are not tested as much = rate apparently lower for children. But they spread it to the adults, who show harsher symptoms, are tested more = higher rate for adults.

Children suffer less but spread it just as much. This is backed up by every single last medical study done on this topic. Fantasy coookoo land the Irish government is in - and they are punishing us all.

100%. No rise in cases all summer, Since schools have opened cases at record levels

Nobotty

Gardai are to be given the power to fine people going into house parties, coming out of house parties and the house owner

I hope they use them
Hit the irresponsible guidelines flouters in the wallets
Proper order

PommieBast

Floppybits wrote: »

What I am annoyed as is the lack of the effort being put in by government to get the structures in place to allow us all to live with COVID. There is not point in these lockdowns if the track and trace or the health services are not going to be set up to handle this.

Not just health. The de-facto shutdown of INIS is a blatant case of departments simply putting their feet up. Probably could find other examples if I looked.

Brendan Bendar

The_Brood wrote: »

My first point explains EXACTLY why you are wrong. This is not complicated stuff. It really isn't. Children with the virus don't display strong symptoms, they are not tested as much = rate apparently lower for children. But they spread it to the adults, who show harsher symptoms, are tested more = higher rate for adults.

Children suffer less but spread it just as much. This is backed up by every single last medical study done on this topic. Fantasy coookoo land the Irish government is in - and they are punishing us all.

Don’t you think the medical professionals would have outlined that to the public.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

I tell ya, they are all puppets of Denis O’Brien, you’ve got their number Bowie, keep up the good work.

More making up sltuff on behalf of others?
Just serves to distract from the FG public representative gombeens get rinsed by him right? That's why you bring him up.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

If we had reopened pubs in June, we would be where the North is, at three times our current rate. Serious mistakes were made there.

Whereas leaving bars with food that flout restrictions and covid cluster meat factory open was grand sure. A world of difference. To quote LV on homelessness "its worse elsewhere", so no worries like. Once we can point to areas worse off no criticism or tweaking needed :rolleyes:

blanch152

The_Brood wrote: »

My first point explains EXACTLY why you are wrong. This is not complicated stuff. It really isn't. Children with the virus don't display strong symptoms, they are not tested as much = rate apparently lower for children. But they spread it to the adults, who show harsher symptoms, are tested more = higher rate for adults.

Children suffer less but spread it just as much. This is backed up by every single last medical study done on this topic. Fantasy coookoo land the Irish government is in - and they are punishing us all.

The bit in bold is completely nonsense.

The positivity rate is the percentage who test positive. It is lower for schools than for the general population.

If you were only testing children with symptoms, as you and others allege, then you would get a high positivity rate because you would not be testing close contacts and children without symptoms. Instead of the high positivity rate expected from that scenario, we have a low positivity rate

Furthermore, if there were tens of thousands of children running around symptomless but spreading the disease to adults, there would be thousands of dead teachers. There aren't, so that is wrong also.

Whether or not children spead it as much as adults is irrelevant, the point is they are not spreading it in controlled situations such as schools.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Whereas leaving bars with food that flout restrictions and covid cluster meat factory open was grand sure. A world of difference. To quote LV on homelessness "its worse elsewhere", so no worries like. Once we can point to areas worse off no criticism or tweaking needed :rolleyes:

The proof is in the numbers infected. The North is three times the rate down here because they did things wrong. Thems the facts, ignore them if you want, throw in a homage to Leo as well, but they are still the facts.

JohnnyFlash

Bowie wrote: »

Whereas leaving bars with food that flout restrictions and covid cluster meat factory open was grand sure. A world of difference. To quote LV on homelessness "its worse elsewhere", so no worries like. Once we can point to areas worse off no criticism or tweaking needed :rolleyes:

They should have appointed you at the start of the crisis, dude. Huge missed opportunity for the country.

Mod

Breach of threadban - take a day off from the forum.

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

The proof is in the numbers infected. The North is three times the rate down here because they did things wrong. Thems the facts, ignore them if you want, throw in a homage to Leo as well, but they are still the facts.

The North doing things wrong does change the fact that our Govt have done loads of things wrong.

That is a FACT

Get our house in order and we can start pointing fingers at others

blanch152

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

The North doing things wrong does change the fact that our Govt have done loads of things wrong.

That is a FACT

Get our house in order and we can start pointing fingers at others

Every government has done loads of things wrong, that happens when you are dealing with a new pandemic. That is a FACT.

Therefore, you need to compare how you are doing with others. The FACT that there is a different government sharing this island with us and furthermore the FACT that the government there contains a member of the opposition here allows us the unique ability to compare and contrast. We know therefore what would have happened had our government been different - things would have been a lot worse.

Jinglejangle69

Swabs below 1000 last 2 days and positivity rate decreasing.

Looks like level 3 was starting to work a and people probably got a wake up call from level 5 been recommended.

Ah well too late now, lockdown it is.

At least people can say Leo looks silly now right?

Guess that's all that matter to some here.

Floppybits

PommieBast wrote: »

Not just health. The de-facto shutdown of INIS is a blatant case of departments simply putting their feet up. Probably could find other examples if I looked.

Oh I am sure there are more. In my job I work with one of the public bodies and most have gone missing have not been since the first lock down.

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

Every government has done loads of things wrong, that happens when you are dealing with a new pandemic. That is a FACT.

Therefore, you need to compare how you are doing with others. The FACT that there is a different government sharing this island with us and furthermore the FACT that the government there contains a member of the opposition here allows us the unique ability to compare and contrast. We know therefore what would have happened had our government been different - things would have been a lot worse.

Your worse than Mícheál Martin in leaders Questions today not along referencing Stormont to Mary Lou, answered a question from Roisin Shortall by going on a rant about the North.

Our Govt failed, many Govts failed.

They failed 2 weeks ago going against Public Health Advice of level 5 for 3 weeks that leading upto Christmas we are faced with level 5 for 6.weeks. That's all on them, 3 extra weeks of business not been able to open, 3 extra. Weeks of people with mental health issues suffering more, 3 extra weeks of Govt having to pay out PUP, TWSS. Etc...

All because they knew better than NHEPT

Floppybits

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Your worse than Mícheál Martin in leaders Questions today not along referencing Stormont to Mary Lou, answered a question from Roisin Shortall by going on a rant about the North.

Our Govt failed, many Govts failed.

They failed 2 weeks ago going against Public Health Advice of level 5 for 3 weeks that leading upto Christmas we are faced with level 5 for 6.weeks. That's all on them, 3 extra weeks of business not been able to open, 3 extra. Weeks of people with mental health issues suffering more, 3 extra weeks of Govt having to pay out PUP, TWSS. Etc...

All because they knew better than NHEPT

Would you say that the government are now in a weaker position in relation to NPHET? Will this mean that everytime NPHET recommend something the government will implement it no questions asked?

dundalkfc10

Floppybits wrote: »

Would you say that the government are now in a weaker position in relation to NPHET? Will this mean that everytime NPHET recommend something the government will implement it no questions asked?

God knows what this Govt will do next, they change their mind every week at this rate.

A month ago we had the shambles of the 1 to 5 plan to live with this for 6 months, and 1st day Dublin was actually 3.5
Now we have everyone at Level 5 but not really Level 5 cause Teachers, Doctors etc can travel all over country play a game of Gaelic and head work next day and a few other changes.

It's all mixed messages and they don't seem to be getting any better at giving them. Leaks to the media etc

Floppybits

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

God knows what this Govt will do next, they change their mind every week at this rate.

A month ago we had the shambles of the 1 to 5 plan to live with this for 6 months, and 1st day Dublin was actually 3.5
Now we have everyone at Level 5 but not really Level 5 cause Teachers, Doctors etc can travel all over country play a game of Gaelic and head work next day and a few other changes.

It's all mixed messages and they don't seem to be getting any better at giving them. Leaks to the media etc

The trust in the government and HSE is one of the main problems. It doesn't help that there seems to be a competition between the 2 main parties to see who can leak about the other to the press first. Also these figures they are releasing daily and then throwing in deaths from previous months as well doesn't help the cause either.

Truthvader

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

God knows what this Govt will do next, they change their mind every week at this rate.

A month ago we had the shambles of the 1 to 5 plan to live with this for 6 months, and 1st day Dublin was actually 3.5
Now we have everyone at Level 5 but not really Level 5 cause Teachers, Doctors etc can travel all over country play a game of Gaelic and head work next day and a few other changes.

It's all mixed messages and they don't seem to be getting any better at giving them. Leaks to the media etc

Duh... The progress of the virus is changing and evolving on a daily basis. So the response changes and evolves accordingly . The solution is a bit more complex and fluid than shouting "Tiocfaidh ar la" can address