FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

FG trying to tell actual experts they're wrong. There seems to be a trend at the moment. Seems like they're brought their own alternative facts and will push them no matter what.

https://twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1361992429050728448?s=19

If experts were correct all of the time and agreed 100% with each other, we wouldn't need politicians.

However, experts are often wrong. Conor may well be a qualified economist, but he is less qualified than the economists who came here as experts for the IMF and told us what to do. I recall that you also agreed with everything they suggested, didn't you?

Or is it only some experts that are to be believed?

P.S. Would the ESRI be the same experts who told us that a united Ireland was prohibitively expensive? Or was that some other set of experts that are not to be believed?

This parroting of experts doesn't have a long shelf-life.

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

how?

If 60٪ of households could not in the morning,raise a mortgage for an average priced house......would that say to yous,houses are unaffordable?



Is it true people are paying upto 40% or more of their disposable income on rent....is this sustainable for to your eyes

The average house price is distorted by the market in South Dublin, thus making your point invalid, which is the same reason you fought to use median income rather than average income.

Now, if you were using median household income, together with median house price, you might have a point. But you aren't.

Bubbaclaus

smurgen wrote: »

FG trying to tell actual experts they're wrong. There seems to be a trend at the moment. Seems like they're brought their own alternative facts and will push them no matter what.

https://twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1361992429050728448?s=19

Probably more relevant for the FG thread if you are focusing in on that party in particular.

Bubbaclaus

More comments pointing towards the government strategy being to grow out of the COVID deficit, which is welcome.

Thankfully we don't have the situation we faced during the financial crisis of a decade ago where we were unable to borrow to fund the country and our hands were tied. This time around we can borrow for free and it will be fascinating to watch the economic recovery. It will be a good case study for years to come.

https://m.independent.ie/news/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-commits-to-no-post-pandemic-tax-hikes-or-cuts-to-public-sector-pay-40100605.html

FrancieBrady

Funny from O'Broin:

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1362004936754667525

McMurphy

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

More comments pointing towards the government strategy being to grow out of the COVID deficit, which is welcome.

Thankfully we don't have the situation we faced during the financial crisis of a decade ago where we were unable to borrow to fund the country and our hands were tied. This time around we can borrow for free and it will be fascinating to watch the economic recovery. It will be a good case study for years to come.

https://m.independent.ie/news/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-commits-to-no-post-pandemic-tax-hikes-or-cuts-to-public-sector-pay-40100605.html

I hope it's a better strategy than this.

https://twitter.com/FancyVegasPro/status/1359891843664740355?s=19

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Funny from O'Broin:

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1362004936754667525

I think Gavin Reilly got it spot on.

A soundbite from O'Broin, that is pretty much all he is capable of.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

do you just not see the obvious long term outworking of this??


Where will tbis 60% whom cant afford get a mortgage,come retirement,live??


Some day ffg will have to start do long term planning and stop pulling up the drawbridge on next generations

In 2016 census, almost 70% of households were either owned outright or mortgaged, leaving 30% renting. Where are you getting your 60%? Try actual facts, please. I must also point out the fact that there are government supports for people who are on very low incomes.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

60% of households live in a house with income under 60K per year

The average house price in ireland last year was 270K


It is simply not credible to say these households,could raise a mortgage to purchase a average priced house,of necessary


That would say to me,house prices are unaffordable......can you gaurantee none of these people whom cant afford to buy a house,wont face homelessness upon retiring and unable to afford rents??

So, your 60% doesn’t mean 60% renting. Just they might not at some stage in the future, be able to get a mortgage, despite already having one?
I prefer actual facts and figures. Not supposition.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I think Gavin Reilly got it spot on.

A soundbite from O'Broin, that is pretty much all he is capable of.

Funny though.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

nowhere did i say it did....so calm down


But factaully speaking 60% of households,wouldmt be able to raise a mortgage to buy an average house


Can you gauramtee 100% all those,who arent ever able to afford to buy a house,wont face homelessness upon retirement?

Or is forward planning and concerns for obvious issues that will happen,just not feature in ffg world



Looks obvious to me,a large proportion of people working and living now are likely to spend their retirement in hostels and homeless shelters,thanks to ffg letting housing go into a diaster area

Soooo. What’s going to happen to the 70% who either own outright or are paying a mortgage on their homes? If they had the good sense and housekeeping skills, to save a deposit, get and service a mortgage, then they’ll cope very well in retirement. And, as I’ve already pointed out, numerous times, there are government supports for those struggling to pay their rent.

Bubbaclaus

McMurphy wrote: »

I hope it's a better strategy than this.

https://twitter.com/FancyVegasPro/status/1359891843664740355?s=19

Not sure of the relevance of your response to my post that you quoted. Any comments on the proposed economic approach?

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

I doubt that there are many who reach retirement age and couldn’t manage to live on the state pension. Most will be debt free without rent or mortgages to pay. There are state supports for those in rented accommodation. Then, there’s medical card, fuel allowance. Things that weren’t available to most while working.

Have you stats for this? Seems to me if you have trouble paying rent while working how will this improve when you retire? You'll still have rent due, in most cases an ever increasing rent.
We are talking about savings here. Not everyone can save.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

If experts were correct all of the time and agreed 100% with each other, we wouldn't need politicians.

However, experts are often wrong. Conor may well be a qualified economist, but he is less qualified than the economists who came here as experts for the IMF and told us what to do. I recall that you also agreed with everything they suggested, didn't you?

Or is it only some experts that are to be believed?

P.S. Would the ESRI be the same experts who told us that a united Ireland was prohibitively expensive? Or was that some other set of experts that are not to be believed?

This parroting of experts doesn't have a long shelf-life.

FF/FG aren't disagreeing, they are asking the ERSI to change their report to suit and agree with FF/FG. So FF/FG can claim the experts agree with them.
So experts can be right or wrong depending on what FF/FG/Greens say. Okey doke.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

I think Gavin Reilly got it spot on.

A soundbite from O'Broin, that is pretty much all he is capable of.

He's correct isn't he?

Did you get on to the Teachers union? They stated they are having a 'confidential' meeting with the minister. I hope Leo isn't earwigging in the hall.

Fann Linn

James Brown wrote: »

FF/FG aren't disagreeing, they are asking the ERSI to change their report to suit and agree with FF/FG. So FF/FG can claim the experts agree with them.
So experts can be right or wrong depending on what FF/FG/Greens say. Okey doke.

Getting to be a habit now anyway from this govt starting with spin doctors/advisors dictating what questions can or can't be asked. No surprise now that FFG senators think they're in a position to tell an independent think-tank what they should or shouldn't publish.

blanch152

James Brown wrote: »

He's correct isn't he?

Did you get on to the Teachers union? They stated they are having a 'confidential' meeting with the minister. I hope Leo isn't earwigging in the hall.

Yeah, Reilly's correct all right, O'Broin is nothing more than a spoofer with a penchant for soundbites.

What are you talking about the teacher unions for?

Floppybits

blanch152 wrote: »

This is a clear example of how political campaigners misuse the average (house price) with the median (household income) to make a completely disingenuous political point.

It would actually be a great illustration of this misuse for a maths class.

I bet you would have said the same about the FF lads when they were in pretend opposition. You just let your hate for SF or anything that doesn't conform to FG ways of thinking cloud your judgement. We can all see that with your pathetic defence of Varadkar and the leaking of the confidential document.

McMurphy

I wonder who the rest are?


https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1362062012826681345?s=19

Ireland2021

McMurphy wrote: »

I wonder who the rest are?


https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1362062012826681345?s=19

The Gardai yet again having their time taking up by the Govt of chaos.

They might have to set up a police station dedicated to TDs and FFG. Thats McGahon, Leo and TD from Galway West. Im sure there is more

Floppybits

Ireland2021 wrote: »

The Gardai yet again having their time taking up by the Govt of chaos.

They might have to set up a police station dedicated to TDs and FFG. Thats McGahon, Leo and TD from Galway West. Im sure there is more

Well a poster on here was accusing the opposition of wasting Garda time on the Varadkar leaking fiasco.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Yeah, Reilly's correct all right, O'Broin is nothing more than a spoofer with a penchant for soundbites.

What are you talking about the teacher unions for?

The information coming from the facts is such schemes drive up house pricing. O'Broin spoke on how FF/FG/Green are spoofing and O'Brien has changed his tune because it's his own doing the fiddling.

They said they are having 'confidential' talks with government. You would feel it's fine for MM to spill the beans to Hello magazine or the like behind Foley's back. The teachers union should be aware 'confidential' is just a word in FF/FG/Green circles.

blanch152

Floppybits wrote: »

I bet you would have said the same about the FF lads when they were in pretend opposition. You just let your hate for SF or anything that doesn't conform to FG ways of thinking cloud your judgement. We can all see that with your pathetic defence of Varadkar and the leaking of the confidential document.

Hang on a minute here, it is true that I have a deep disregard for Sinn Fein, fully justified, I am of a generation that will never give them a preference.

However, that post had nothing to do with Sinn Fein. It was actually about the difference between the mean and the median and how when some people make a point, they mix the two in a way that is disingenuous and makes their point spurious. It applies to all, whether they are politicians, journalists, commentators or posters on here.

In this particular situation, it was in reference to a post on here, so unless you are suggesting that the particular poster is a representative of Sinn Fein, it had absolutely nothing to do with them.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Hang on a minute here, it is true that I have a deep disregard for Sinn Fein, fully justified, I am of a generation that will never give them a preference.

However, that post had nothing to do with Sinn Fein. It was actually about the difference between the mean and the median and how when some people make a point, they mix the two in a way that is disingenuous and makes their point spurious. It applies to all, whether they are politicians, journalists, commentators or posters on here.

In this particular situation, it was in reference to a post on here, so unless you are suggesting that the particular poster is a representative of Sinn Fein, it had absolutely nothing to do with them.

Actually Bubba raised people saving and we went on to discuss how people finding it tough aren't/cannot save. Then Maryanne brought it to most have no rent or mortgage to pay when they retire which sounds like baloney to me. And she went further speaking on her belief that the magic money tree would look after retirees no bother.

Floppybits

blanch152 wrote: »

Hang on a minute here, it is true that I have a deep disregard for Sinn Fein, fully justified, I am of a generation that will never give them a preference.

However, that post had nothing to do with Sinn Fein. It was actually about the difference between the mean and the median and how when some people make a point, they mix the two in a way that is disingenuous and makes their point spurious. It applies to all, whether they are politicians, journalists, commentators or posters on here.

In this particular situation, it was in reference to a post on here, so unless you are suggesting that the particular poster is a representative of Sinn Fein, it had absolutely nothing to do with them.

Apologies my response should have been to post number #7796 and to the one quoted. However my point still stands, your hatred for SF and bias for anything outside of FG conformity clouds your judgement. This why you can't see a problem with Varadkar leaking a document or anything wrong with a crony with no experience of being a judge being appointed to the highest court in the land over other experienced judges.

James Brown

James Brown wrote: »

Have you stats for this? Seems to me if you have trouble paying rent while working how will this improve when you retire? You'll still have rent due, in most cases an ever increasing rent.
We are talking about savings here. Not everyone can save.

There’s a lot here re housing. “ Ninety-two percent of middle-aged and older adults in Ireland live in an owner-occupied home, and the majority of these own their homes outright (83%). Eight percent live in rented accommodation, with two thirds of these renting from Local Authorities.” https://tilda.tcd.ie/publications/reports/pdf/Report_HousingConditions.pdf

I repeat my point re government supports for those who need it. eg HAP. Us oldies are masters at budgeting.

Fann Linn

McMurphy wrote: »

I wonder who the rest are?


https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1362062012826681345?s=19

These FFG lads are almost in front of AGS as often as the Kinahan's.

blanch152

Floppybits wrote: »

Apologies my response should have been to post number #7796 and to the one quoted. However my point still stands, your hatred for SF and bias for anything outside of FG conformity clouds your judgement. This why you can't see a problem with Varadkar leaking a document or anything wrong with a crony with no experience of being a judge being appointed to the highest court in the land over other experienced judges.

I have less issue with the appointment to the Supreme Court because there was actually some kind of process through the JAB, than I have with the SF crony appointment without a process of a convicted terrorist to the Northern Ireland Education Authority.

There are clear principled distinctions between the two, in my opinion.

I have also been critical of Fine Gael on a number of occasions, their failure to hold the line on water charges, their ignoring the climate change issue for too long, their failures on social welfare reform, their failure to increase LPT etc.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

There’s a lot here re housing. “ Ninety-two percent of middle-aged and older adults in Ireland live in an owner-occupied home, and the majority of these own their homes outright (83%). Eight percent live in rented accommodation, with two thirds of these renting from Local Authorities.” https://tilda.tcd.ie/publications/reports/pdf/Report_HousingConditions.pdf

I repeat my point re government supports for those who need it. eg HAP. Us oldies are masters at budgeting.

My point, as per the conversation, is people struggling to pay rent now, are not saving and will have no savings or mortgage free accommodation come retirement. It's a concern as the numbers will likely be a lot larger as time passes.

Rented accommodation has continued its upward trend with 497,111 households renting, an increase of 4.7 per cent on 2011. This meant that renting was the tenure status for almost 30 per cent of all of occupied dwellings in the last census.

Renting from a local authority showed the largest increase, up 11 per cent from 129,033 in 2011 to 143,178 in 2016. The number of households which were rented either from a private landlord or voluntary body rose by 2 per cent from 320,319 in 2011 to 326,493 in 2016.

The number of owner occupied households fell between 2011 and 2016 (from 1,149,924 to 1,147,552) which, allied to continued growth in rented accommodation, has caused the overall home ownership rate to drop from 69.7 per cent to 67.6 per cent.

This means that the home ownership rate has reached a level last seen in 1971 as shown in Figure 3.2. While the rate has decreased slightly in rural areas (84% to 82%), the percentage of urban homes owned outright or with a loan has fallen from 61.6 per cent to 59.2 per cent in 2016.

Seems we are regressing.

Floppybits

blanch152 wrote: »

I have less issue with the appointment to the Supreme Court because there was actually some kind of process through the JAB, than I have with the SF crony appointment without a process of a convicted terrorist to the Northern Ireland Education Authority.

There are clear principled distinctions between the two, in my opinion.

I have also been critical of Fine Gael on a number of occasions, their failure to hold the line on water charges, their ignoring the climate change issue for too long, their failures on social welfare reform, their failure to increase LPT etc.

And again you are being disingenuous about the appointment of Woulfe, you know as well as I do sitting judges do not apply for vacant position through JAB, they apply directly via AG who then passes it onto the minister, only those with non judicial experience like Woulfe would apply through JAB. So JAB would only send through nominations with no experience to the Minister. Why have you constantly misrepresented this process?

On the water charges FG made a complete and utter mess of their introduction and their pig headed stubbornness not have referendum on water was idiotic so they only have themselves to blame on that. LPT I have no problem with except that I would like to see that money going into improving areas and not into general taxation to pay for inflated wages.