FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

James Brown

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Can you set out your position on that as to why you think it is lunacy?

A councillors base annual salary is about 17k a year and is topped up by allowances of around 6k which is dependent on their attendance at at least 80% of meetings. The legislation needed to be changed to ensure that remote attendance counted towards that threshold.

To begrudge a Councillor on 17k a year their allowances for attending meetings seems a bit off to me.

Yet student nurses working the Covid front line can get ****ed.

Bubbaclaus

James Brown wrote: »

Yet student nurses working the Covid front line can get ****ed.

Any comment about the topic no?

James Brown

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Any comment about the topic no?

It is. You are concerned folk are begrudging councilors money for expenses they don't have, while everybody is cool with the way student nurses were treated. You with me or pretending you don't see a connection?

Bubbaclaus

James Brown wrote: »

It is. You are concerned folk are begrudging councilors money for expenses they don't have, while everybody is cool with the way student nurses were treated. You with me or pretending you don't see a connection?

Both are receiving the same that they were pre covid. You seem to be annoyed that one is still receiving the same and implying that they should get less, whilst simulatenously annoyed for the complete opposite reason for the other. It's inconsistent.

I'm all for 1st to 3rd year student nurses getting an appropriate training allowance while on their learning placement by the way, and thought that long before Covid, just in case you seem to think I don't. However, I understand they are currently not on any placement anyway since January as the HSE needed to free up capacity get their teachers working at full capacity helping patients, rather than teaching the students. Haven't heard about them restarting the placements just yet.

I'd also support student doctors getting paid also in a similar scenario, but student doctors don't seem to get the same support in the public for pay.

RandomViewer

James Brown wrote: »

It is. You are concerned folk are begrudging councilors money for expenses they don't have, while everybody is cool with the way student nurses were treated. You with me or pretending you don't see a connection?

Haven't you twigged, he's a councillor

Bubbaclaus

RandomViewer wrote: »

Haven't you twigged, he's a councillor

I'm actually one of the lizard people that you probably believe in.

RandomViewer

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I'm actually one of the lizard people that you probably believe in.

Thats right wing mumbo jumbo, be more in your domain that sort of crap, maybe ask Varadkar at the next Scientology shindig,
Flat earther, no dinosaurs, UFO, Illuminati all cornerstones of the Right,

Bubbaclaus

RandomViewer wrote: »

Thats right wing mumbo jumbo, be more in your domain that sort of crap, maybe ask Varadkar at the next Scientology shindig,
Flat earther, no dinosaurs, UFO, Illuminati all cornerstones of the Right,

Losing ones sense of reality doesn't have a wing.

RandomViewer

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Losing ones sense of reality doesn't have a wing.

Its your mates that have been gathering behind your old mucker Gemma and spouting the lizard ,staypuft marshmallow men dung, I merely stated that every media appearance or article concerning FG has shown a deeply partitioning and belligerent party that holds the GFA in contempt

James Brown

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Both are receiving the same that they were pre covid. You seem to be annoyed that one is still receiving the same and implying that they should get less, whilst simulatenously annoyed for the complete opposite reason for the other. It's inconsistent.
...

I am. Yes.

The Student Nurses should have got more because they were working with Covid.

The councilors should still get expenses. Just not paid expenses when theres no expense.

For me, I can't understand why someone would 'begrudge' front line workers a living wage, (as they could not work elsewhere to subsidise their income due to covid, like they normally would) while defending Councilors getting paid expenses for no actual expenses.

Bubbaclaus

RandomViewer wrote: »

Its your mates that have been gathering behind your old mucker Gemma and spouting the lizard ,staypuft marshmallow men dung, I merely stated that every media appearance or article concerning FG has shown a deeply partitioning and belligerent party that holds the GFA in contempt

Who are my mates? Mr and Mrs Lizard down the road I suppose.

Brendan Bendar

RandomViewer wrote: »

Its your mates that have been gathering behind your old mucker Gemma and spouting the lizard ,staypuft marshmallow men dung, I merely stated that every media appearance or article concerning FG has shown a deeply partitioning and belligerent party that holds the GFA in contempt

Wow....every media appearance.....GFA in contempt....


Throw a good few of these up till we see them, bro.

RandomViewer

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Wow....every media appearance.....GFA in contempt....


Throw a good few of these up till we see them, bro.

Why do I need to, doesn't your mammy email all the scripts to you

Brendan Bendar

RandomViewer wrote: »

Why do I need to, doesn't your mammy email all the scripts to you

Good lad, good answer, we can wrap this little discussion up then.

Ta Ra.

Finty Lemon

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Good lad, good answer, we can wrap this little discussion up then.

Ta Ra.

Leave him off.
He is in a cul-de-sac and needs to get turned without anyone seeing him

McMurphy

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Leave him off.
He is in a cul-de-sac and needs to get turned without anyone seeing him

Anyone Barry Cowens number?

Tokyo

Mod:

Bubbaclaus, RandomViewer - I'm tired of moderating handbags-at-dawn style back and forth. Come back to the thread in a week with a higher standard of posting. See you then.

Brendan Bendar, Finty Lemon, McMurphy - you will follow suit id there's any further low brow commentary.

Cluedo Monopoly

Listening to various radio stations this week, the thing that struck me is the many Irish people gave government ministers/TDs the benefit of the doubt in terms of their ability and aptitude over past decades - in all the parties. However the Covid crisis has shone a bright light on the operations/capabilities of both the permanent and elected government and the public are not impressed by any means. They might have suspected poor planning/governance/accountability/comms in the past but it's absolutely laid bare now. Interesting to see how this enlightenment impacts our society.

blanch152

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Listening to various radio stations this week, the thing that struck me is the many Irish people gave government ministers/TDs the benefit of the doubt in terms of their ability and aptitude over past decades - in all the parties. However the Covid crisis has shone a bright light on the operations/capabilities of both the permanent and elected government and the public are not impressed by any means. They might have suspected poor planning/governance/accountability/comms in the past but it's absolutely laid bare now. Interesting to see how this enlightenment impacts our society.

Indeed it will, think we are close to the lowest in the EU in terms of cases.

Not hearing much about that on here, surprising seeing as some were cheerleading our couple of days as the worst in the world for a couple of months.

I have said repeatedly that we won't know until it is over how well we have done. We heard in the last few days that UK are suddenly worried they don't have enough second vaccines for all those they gave one to. Yet, they were showing us up according to all the local experts just a week or two ago.

The public mood reflects some of this irrationality. At the moment, people are the most vexated with restrictions that they ever will be, and are worried how long they will have to wait for a vaccine. If the government isn't at a low point now, we could only be living in the Soviet Union or North Korea.

Where we are in the autumn will be more enlightening.

blanch152

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Both are receiving the same that they were pre covid. You seem to be annoyed that one is still receiving the same and implying that they should get less, whilst simulatenously annoyed for the complete opposite reason for the other. It's inconsistent.

I'm all for 1st to 3rd year student nurses getting an appropriate training allowance while on their learning placement by the way, and thought that long before Covid, just in case you seem to think I don't. However, I understand they are currently not on any placement anyway since January as the HSE needed to free up capacity get their teachers working at full capacity helping patients, rather than teaching the students. Haven't heard about them restarting the placements just yet.

I'd also support student doctors getting paid also in a similar scenario, but student doctors don't seem to get the same support in the public for pay.

Think about this for a minute.

The State's Chief Nurse has stopped placements for first to third years because they get in the way and hinder the current pandemic. Why should they be paid?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Think about this for a minute.

The State's Chief Nurse has stopped placements for first to third years because they get in the way and hinder the current pandemic. Why should they be paid?

You've a quote to back this up?
Student Nurses I've heard, speak on dealing with Covid patients alone.
The fact is they usually supplement their income with other work, but can't because of Covid.

How do you feel about Councilors getting paid expenses for no expenses?

James Brown

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Listening to various radio stations this week, the thing that struck me is the many Irish people gave government ministers/TDs the benefit of the doubt in terms of their ability and aptitude over past decades - in all the parties. However the Covid crisis has shone a bright light on the operations/capabilities of both the permanent and elected government and the public are not impressed by any means. They might have suspected poor planning/governance/accountability/comms in the past but it's absolutely laid bare now. Interesting to see how this enlightenment impacts our society.

They seem sharp enough if there's a shilling in it for them.

blanch152

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0128/1193740-nurse-placements/


"However, on Saturday, 16 January, as the pandemic intensified, the Department of Health announced that the clinical placements were being suspended for two weeks, to free up hundreds of staff supervising the placements for frontline duties."


It is amazing that two months later, some posters are still pushing the idea that student nurses should be paid, even though their placements have been cancelled for two months!!!!!!

And why were the placements cancelled? Because the time spent supervising the placements was affecting frontline duties. In other words, the student nurses were a drag on the system.

Now, I am fully happy that placements are a hugely important part of education. But that doesn't mean that those on placement are a bonus for the HSE.

Finty Lemon

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Listening to various radio stations this week, the thing that struck me is the many Irish people gave government ministers/TDs the benefit of the doubt in terms of their ability and aptitude over past decades - in all the parties. However the Covid crisis has shone a bright light on the operations/capabilities of both the permanent and elected government and the public are not impressed by any means. They might have suspected poor planning/governance/accountability/comms in the past but it's absolutely laid bare now. Interesting to see how this enlightenment impacts our society.

The covid crisis as evidence of the unique ineptitude of an Irish government?
Cases rising in
Germany
France
Belgium
Italy
Poland
Sweden
Finland
Norway
Switzerland
Lockdowns imposed or re-imposed in these jurisdictions.
Vaccination rates below Ireland's.
Yet myopic opportunists continue to peddle the notion that we are outliers in terms of response. Simply not true.

blanch152

Finty Lemon wrote: »

The covid crisis as evidence of the unique ineptitude of an Irish government?
Cases rising in
Germany
France
Belgium
Italy
Poland
Sweden
Finland
Norway
Switzerland
Lockdowns imposed or re-imposed in these jurisdictions.
Vaccination rates below Ireland's.
Yet myopic opportunists continue to peddle the notion that we are outliers in terms of response. Simply not true.

They have little else to cling to.

Cluedo Monopoly

If you think the government are handling covid well, have a peak at the main Covid threads.

They delegated everything to NPHET after the 'meaningful Christmas'. Longest and more severe restrictions in Europe. Now the public have lost complete faith in them.

Finty Lemon

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

If you think the government are handling covid well, have a peak at the main Covid threads.

They delegated everything to NPHET after the 'meaningful Christmas'. Longest and more severe restrictions in Europe. Now the public have lost complete faith in them.

Among the lowest mortality rates in Europe. The aforementioned countries are all heading back into lockdown. Disease is clearly responsive to changing severity of restrictions.
On the one hand the criticism is of extended lockdown, on the other its that restrictions were relaxed at Christmas. In a word, confusing.

Cluedo Monopoly

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Among the lowest mortality rates in Europe. The aforementioned countries are all heading back into lockdown. Disease is clearly responsive to changing severity of restrictions.
On the one hand the criticism is of extended lockdown, on the other its that restrictions were relaxed at Christmas. In a word, confusing.

I'll pick one that has a similar population to Ireland - Norway (5.3 million people)

Norway = 85,000 cases. 638 deaths. 0.75% mortality rate.

Ireland = 229,360 cases. 4576 deaths. 2% mortality rate.

You were saying?

An Norway based Irish doctor on Claire Byrne this week said the schools were open since April 2020.

End of March and still the mandatory hotel quarantine not in place. Amazing.

skimpydoo

If things go well the government wants all the plaudits. If things go bad the government blames NPHET.

Finty Lemon

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I'll pick one that has a similar population to Ireland - Norway (5.3 million people)

Norway = 85,000 cases. 638 deaths. 0.75% mortality rate.

Ireland = 229,360 cases. 4576 deaths. 2% mortality rate.

You were saying?

An Norway based Irish doctor on Claire Byrne this week said the schools were open since April 2020.

End of March and still the mandatory hotel quarantine not in place. Amazing.

Ever hear of Janteloven? The Norwegian code of social altruism? It might help you see your comparison in a new light.