FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0128/1193740-nurse-placements/


"However, on Saturday, 16 January, as the pandemic intensified, the Department of Health announced that the clinical placements were being suspended for two weeks, to free up hundreds of staff supervising the placements for frontline duties."


It is amazing that two months later, some posters are still pushing the idea that student nurses should be paid, even though their placements have been cancelled for two months!!!!!!

And why were the placements cancelled? Because the time spent supervising the placements was affecting frontline duties. In other words, the student nurses were a drag on the system.

Now, I am fully happy that placements are a hugely important part of education. But that doesn't mean that those on placement are a bonus for the HSE.

If you read down...

During the first wave of Covid-19, student nurses were converted to Health Care Assistants (HCA) and paid as such.

Now what? HCA get paid too much or some ****e? I guess they spared other nurses to hold their hands.

I got my info from broadcast interviews with student nurses struggling to get by speaking on often working alone dealing with covid patients.
Now they could all be lying I suppose.

So again, you cool with councillors getting paid for expenses they don't accrue? I'll help ýou out; this would be cross party.

Finty Lemon

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I'll pick one that has a similar population to Ireland - Norway (5.3 million people)

Norway = 85,000 cases. 638 deaths. 0.75% mortality rate.

Ireland = 229,360 cases. 4576 deaths. 2% mortality rate.

You were saying?

An Norway based Irish doctor on Claire Byrne this week said the schools were open since April 2020.

End of March and still the mandatory hotel quarantine not in place. Amazing.

Another factor to be considered in your comparison of course, is that Norway only has 41 border crossings on its 1700km border. For comparison, co. Monaghan alone has 53.

In the Norwegian situation, there are mutually policed border checks on 25 of crossings, accounting for over 90% of regular traffic volume, the most of the rest are in more Northern regions where movement tends to be N/S not E/W.
Whatever about the debate around administration of the NI-RoI border, it is clear that the Irish government started from a quite different position relative to their Nordic counterparts in terms of capacity to control movement.

Perhaps I am wrong is assuming that you are attributing 100% of the difference in cases to FF? If so, I apologise and would like to know how you have apportioned the differences, and accounted for the relevant geographical, sociological and political confounding factors. Thank you

Cluedo Monopoly

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Ever hear of Janteloven? The Norwegian code of social altruism? It might help you see your comparison in a new light.

You put Norway on your list sunshine
And mentioned mortality rates!
Many on your list have a lower mortality rate than Ireland.

Finty Lemon

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

You put Norway on your list sunshine
And mentioned mortality rates!
Many on your list have a lower mortality rate than Ireland.

Yes I did. Norway, with all its geographical and cultural advantages, is locking down in March 2021.
Thats the point.

James Brown

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Yes I did. Norway, with all its geographical and cultural advantages, is locking down in March 2021.
Thats the point.

How long is Ireland in lock down?

Floppybits

James Brown wrote: »

How long is Ireland in lock down?

Well that would depend on what you mean by lockdown? You know the same way as confidential doesn't really mean confidential.

Technically some people will argue that we really haven't been in lockdown because we can go 5k and are no confined to our homes and only being allowed to get an hours exercise or go to the shops.

Finty Lemon

James Brown wrote: »

How long is Ireland in lock down?

Duration commensurate with incidence rates and risk to public health. As it should be.

James Brown

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Duration commensurate with incidence rates and risk to public health. As it should be.

So in relation to somewhere else going into lock down in March, Ireland is ahead of the curve.

Finty Lemon

James Brown wrote: »

So in relation to somewhere else going into lock down in March, Ireland is ahead of the curve.

That's a Bingo

blanch152

Floppybits wrote: »

Well that would depend on what you mean by lockdown? You know the same way as confidential doesn't really mean confidential.

Technically some people will argue that we really haven't been in lockdown because we can go 5k and are no confined to our homes and only being allowed to get an hours exercise or go to the shops.

We never had a curfew for example, many other countries did.

Floppybits

blanch152 wrote: »

We never had a curfew for example, many other countries did.

And there we go. From the same person that gave us confidential is not really confidential and now here we go with it wasn't really a lockdown. Anything to excuse this government all just to justify his hatred of the main opposition party.

Cluedo Monopoly

I think we all expected this.

https://extra.ie/2021/03/21/must-see/taoiseach-is-out-of-touch-say-ministers-as-new-poll-reveals-increasing-number-turning-against-lockdown

Taoiseach Micheál Martin has been dubbed ‘out of touch’ by Cabinet colleagues, as a new poll shows significantly fewer people are in favour of harsh restrictions than a month ago.

Amid mounting concerns of the impact of lockdown fatigue, one frustrated minister even dismissed talk of a split in Government over Covid restrictions, by saying wryly: ‘You can’t have a split when you don’t discuss the issue.’

Some Cabinet members feel the Government has been too slow to react to the increasing evidence that restrictions are no longer being adhered to by growing sections of the population.

The Cabinet has not discussed restrictions substantially in weeks, ministers told the MoS, for the simple reason that the Cabinet subcommittee which is a clearing house for such matters hasn’t met in weeks. I don’t know how the Cabinet could be said to be split on this when we have not been given the opportunity or the forum to discuss it,’ said a Cabinet minister.

And the result revealed a significant swing towards fewer restrictions, which some ministers see as a loss of trust in the Government’s policies.

‘There is a Covid Cabinet subcommittee now and it has one member, Micheál Martin. That is how that is manifesting itself.’

A minister added that the ‘becalming’ of Mr Varadkar, due to a number of controversies, has removed a ‘contrarian’ voice from the argument.

Very interesting. I see Martin becoming increasingly isolated now. Cabinet meetings could become increasingly tense. Sounds utterly dysfunctional.

Cluedo Monopoly

Meanwhile....fail to prepare, prepare to fail. The glacial speed of our government.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/quarantine-delay-allows-1213-fly-in-from-risk-nations-40220929.html

More than 34,000 people arrived into the State - including more than 1,200 from high-risk countries such as Brazil and South Africa - in the three-week period after the Government signed off on mandatory hotel quarantine plans.

Covid hotel isolation yet to begin.

Finty Lemon

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I think we all expected this.

https://extra.ie/2021/03/21/must-see/taoiseach-is-out-of-touch-say-ministers-as-new-poll-reveals-increasing-number-turning-against-lockdown



Very interesting. I see Martin becoming increasingly isolated now. Cabinet meetings could become increasingly tense. Sounds utterly dysfunctional.

Are you suggesting that public health policy be dictated by a poll on Extra.ie?
Your populist credentials are impeccable indeed.

Cluedo Monopoly

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Are you suggesting that public health policy be dictated by a poll on Extra.ie?
Your populist credentials are impeccable indeed.

What about the comments from cabinet ministers or did you miss all that? It was 90% of my post.

McMurphy

The ventilator story keeps getting better and better tbh.

https://twitter.com/olivercallan/status/1373611643167444995?s=19

McMurphy

Greens and FF in terminal decline from the last election by the looks of this.

https://twitter.com/NextIrishGE/status/1373437313305427968?s=19

Billcarson

Who will fg try to get with them in Gov after the next election lol? Ff and the greens will be destroyed. The number of wagons they will have to circle to keep sf out will be less lol.

Loafing Oaf

McMurphy wrote: »

Greens and FF in terminal decline from the last election by the looks of this.

https://twitter.com/NextIrishGE/status/1373437313305427968?s=19

They've both come back from the 'dead' before...

Billcarson

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

They've both come back from the 'dead' before...

Surely the people of this country cant be that brain dead to have them back from the dead again.

Anyway it's the youth that will finally kill off ff.

Finty Lemon

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

What about the comments from cabinet ministers or did you miss all that? It was 90% of my post.

I saw it alright. A bit light on specifics that report. Not a single verifiable direct quote in it. Hardly a story at all in fact.

Finty Lemon

McMurphy wrote: »

The ventilator story keeps getting better and better tbh.

https://twitter.com/olivercallan/status/1373611643167444995?s=19

Context.
The HSE spent 0.05% of its annual budget to procure emergency supplies of equipment that were extremely difficult to source given the fact that a global pandemic was underway. You know, the biggest challenge ever to face public medicine in this country.

This was in the face of reports emerging from our EU neighbours of emergency rooms being overwhelmed by the numbers of patients requiring assisted respiration. Thankfully, due to the imposition of lockdown and the adherence of the public to it, most of the capacity was not used. 14 million quid was well worth the punt.

Finty Lemon

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Context.
The HSE spent 0.05% of its annual budget to procure emergency supplies of equipment that were extremely difficult to source given the fact that a global pandemic was underway. You know, the biggest challenge ever to face public medicine in this country.

This was in the face of reports emerging from our EU neighbours of emergency rooms being overwhelmed by the numbers of patients requiring assisted respiration. Thankfully, due to the imposition of lockdown and the adherence of the public to it, most of the capacity was not used. 14 million quid was well worth the punt.

Wow! I've certainly heard it all, this is now money well spent

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Context.
The HSE spent 0.05% of its annual budget to procure emergency supplies of equipment that were extremely difficult to source given the fact that a global pandemic was underway. You know, the biggest challenge ever to face public medicine in this country.

This was in the face of reports emerging from our EU neighbours of emergency rooms being overwhelmed by the numbers of patients requiring assisted respiration. Thankfully, due to the imposition of lockdown and the adherence of the public to it, most of the capacity was not used. 14 million quid was well worth the punt.

So basically you are saying it was 'for the good of the country'?

I suppose it is an argument anyway.

Cluedo Monopoly

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Context.
The HSE spent 0.05% of its annual budget to procure emergency supplies of equipment that were extremely difficult to source given the fact that a global pandemic was underway. You know, the biggest challenge ever to face public medicine in this country.

This was in the face of reports emerging from our EU neighbours of emergency rooms being overwhelmed by the numbers of patients requiring assisted respiration. Thankfully, due to the imposition of lockdown and the adherence of the public to it, most of the capacity was not used. 14 million quid was well worth the punt.

The punt?

Such professionalism!

Cluedo Monopoly

Finty Lemon wrote: »

I saw it alright. A bit light on specifics that report. Not a single verifiable direct quote in it. Hardly a story at all in fact.

So you think it was completely made up? You're in for a long hard fall at the next election if you keep playing the ostrich.

_Kaiser_

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So basically you are saying it was 'for the good of the country'?

I suppose it is an argument anyway.

I fully expect a lot more of this kind of defence when we do finally get past covid and the inquires begin into the decisions made and the huge sums spent during the pandemic.

I also expect most of the current Government to retire with their pension at the next outing. They won't want to be around for the inevitable austerity measures, and certainly not to be asked questions about their roles in the above.

Finty Lemon

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN21P37S
Remember they were resorting to using windscreen wiper motors as makeshift ventilators?

That's how desperate the situation was.

HSE spent some money quickly to get some contingency in place. The right call in my view.

Anyway, 14m is not big money.
Half a good bank robbery on thereabouts.

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN21P37S
Remember they were resorting to using windscreen wiper motors as makeshift ventilators?

That's how desperate the situation was.

HSE spent some money quickly to get some contingency in place. The right call in my view.

Anyway, 14m is not big money.
Half a good bank robbery on thereabouts.

You go to jail if you have been found guilty of robbing a bank.

Floppybits

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You go to jail if you have been found guilty of robbing a bank.

Well according to soon to be minister for justice it is OK to commit crime as long as it is for the good of the country. So I suppose you can rob a bank now and give a percentage to government and you will be all good then.