FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

Brendan Bendar

Finty Lemon wrote: »

The HSE have said themselves that the normal checks and DD were bypassed to beat the rush. I am saying that I can accept that given the hugely pressurised circumstances. Other contracts were put through under the same conditions at the time and worked but this one clearly did not. That will have to be and is being pursued.

I would rather see the people making the call being proactive and taking some risks rather than hiding behind protocol. I know how long it takes for the state machine to get business done, and rightly so because there is tax payers money at stake. On this one the bigger disservice to the public would have been to do nothing however. As I said, people were making medical devices out of car parts at the time, such was the demand.

I trust that your primary interest here is the fate of a small amount of taxpayers money spent at gunpoint, and not another gleeful opportunity for cheap point scoring.

I’m afraid ,after studying the famous ‘Indo cartoon’ and its many nuances and side bars I can only conclude the latter is the most likely interest ,front and centre here.

blanch152

Finty Lemon wrote: »

You do realise that the procurement decision was apolitical, conducted by the administrative arm and not the political one? Jaysis that's basic stuff.
Anyway, the context was a global crisis in medical equipment supply. The staff in this case bypassed normal protocols of due diligence and tendering to try to do the right thing and get some equipment sorted. 14m is not a lot of money when faced with the situation as it was in March 2020.
Hindsight 20/20 in terms of this specific supplier but the same approach was used on PPE etc to get hands on the absolutely required material.
Wad it a hanging offence to go outside the norm in this case? If done in good faith I would say not. Painting this as some insider deal without evidence to the contrary, and falsley linking it to a political party decision is just more of the usual nonsense.

If we only wasted 14m last March, we got a great deal, considering the number of lives that were at stake. Fair play to the HSE procurement people if that is all that was wasted.

This is just another low-level attempt to score cheap political points that have no meaning, a rant against the man, divorced from reality and common sense.

Finty Lemon

blanch152 wrote: »

If we only wasted 14m last March, we got a great deal, considering the number of lives that were at stake. Fair play to the HSE procurement people if that is all that was wasted.

This is just another low-level attempt to score cheap political points that have no meaning, a rant against the man, divorced from reality and common sense.

To be clear, if a deal were done without due diligence in peacetime there absolutely should be repercussions for those involved. Or indeed if any acted out of a personal gain motive. No question.
But this was March 2020 and the officials acted quickly at their own reputational risk. Now some lads want them to face the NKVD.
The irony in all this is that the same people crying over this incident are the same ones criticising the HSE for not buying off-label vaccines for cash.
Populism First and Always.

James Brown

Finty Lemon wrote: »

The HSE have said themselves that the normal checks and DD were bypassed to beat the rush. I am saying that I can accept that given the hugely pressurised circumstances. Other contracts were put through under the same conditions at the time and worked but this one clearly did not. That will have to be and is being pursued.

I would rather see the people making the call being proactive and taking some risks rather than hiding behind protocol. I know how long it takes for the state machine to get business done, and rightly so because there is tax payers money at stake. On this one the bigger disservice to the public would have been to do nothing however. As I said, people were making medical devices out of car parts at the time, such was the demand.

I trust that your primary interest here is the fate of a small amount of taxpayers money spent at gunpoint, and not another gleeful opportunity for cheap point scoring.

I understand your excuse. I don't accept it as reasonable.
Why use an Irish lone businessman with no record for importing, with no medical equipment affiliations who's only credentials involve booking gigs in the middle east? People should be sacked. We also need a criminal investigation to look for any crony deal.

I would have done a better job. I would have called a medical equipment import company who would know reputable dealers. I wouldn't have given 14 mill up front to a relative nobody, (maybe he knows someone?).
As a last resort I would have rang around suppliers in various countries.

Who picked this lad? Who decided to give him 14 mill up front? Did they exhaust all other avenues?

I trust in shrugging off this 14mill you'll be as forgiving in other areas ongoing.
I'm not gleeful I'm pissed off with this kind thing. It's either idiocy or fraud IMO.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

If we only wasted 14m last March, we got a great deal, considering the number of lives that were at stake. Fair play to the HSE procurement people if that is all that was wasted.

This is just another low-level attempt to score cheap political points that have no meaning, a rant against the man, divorced from reality and common sense.

I don't believe you believe a word of this.
I see today the HSE are alright by you. I'll keep it in mind next time you go on about the managers and unions being the problem with deaths on hospital trolleys and the like.

We didn't get a great deal. We gave 14 mill up front to a lad promotes gigs in the middle east with no import background. Who procured us equipment not fit for purpose.

I hope you are lying. I would hate to think someone would excuse away such waste for posturing on a discussion forum.

blanch152

Finty Lemon wrote: »

To be clear, if a deal were done without due diligence in peacetime there absolutely should be repercussions for those involved. Or indeed if any acted out of a personal gain motive. No question.
But this was March 2020 and the officials acted quickly at their own reputational risk. Now some lads want them to face the NKVD.
The irony in all this is that the same people crying over this incident are the same ones criticising the HSE for not buying off-label vaccines for cash.
Populism First and Always.

You got that in one.

The same posters that are criticising this transaction are the ones complaining that we are stuck with proper procurement for vaccines and suggesting we buy them from Cuba or North Korea or somewhere else. It is never about policy, it is about something to complain about.

_Kaiser_

Watching this eejit Eamon Ryan on the news here gushing about his new climate Bill. The smug happy head on him makes me want to break the TV.

The guy hasn't a notion about reality. He obviously hasn't been let in on the imminent recession and austerity budgets that will follow in the next few years

DenMan

Very quiet in relation to Hazel Chu he was too. Very shifty actually!

_Kaiser_

DenMan wrote: »

Very quiet in relation to Hazel Chu he was too. Very shifty actually!

I haven't been following that story admittedly but I have no time for the woman - another one who sees racism and discrimination everywhere and uses it to further her political ambitions.

How she can be both an Independent and chair of the Greens is bizarre though - but then this is the same party that has Ryan as leader and O'Gorman working hard to further disenfranchise the natives in their own country to help the "refugees". :rolleyes:

SEPT 23 1989

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Watching this eejit Eamon Ryan on the news here gushing about his new climate Bill. The smug happy head on him makes me want to break the TV.

The guy hasn't a notion about reality. He obviously hasn't been let in on the imminent recession and austerity budgets that will follow in the next few years

He looked like he had a smoke before he went on

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

You got that in one.

The same posters that are criticising this transaction are the ones complaining that we are stuck with proper procurement for vaccines and suggesting we buy them from Cuba or North Korea or somewhere else. It is never about policy, it is about something to complain about.

More 'everyone knows...' type anecdotes with no support.
I'm one speaking on the 14 mill. You'll accept I've never posted on that. Am I the exception to the rule?

If folk don't have issue with such seedy deals, that's fair enough, but don't try make false equivalences.

costacorta

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Watching this eejit Eamon Ryan on the news here gushing about his new climate Bill. The smug happy head on him makes me want to break the TV.

The guy hasn't a notion about reality. He obviously hasn't been let in on the imminent recession and austerity budgets that will follow in the next few years

He would have more brains in his big toe than the likes of you giving out stink behind your laptop or I phone . Can’t all be experts on everything like you and you’re cronies on here ..

Finty Lemon

European Centre for Disease Control:

Covid Vaccination Stats as per 21/3/21

EU Cumulative First Dose Rate 10.4%
Full Vaccination (2 completed where required) 4.5%

Hungary no.1 @ 17.9% (note using Russian product)

Selected countries
Ireland 12.6/4.6

Denmark 13.3/6.3
Germany 10.2/4.6
Italy 9.7/4.4
France 9.8/4.2
Malta 18.3/8.1
Nethrlands 10.3/3.9
Norway 10.1/4.7
Belgium 9.8/4.6
Finland 15.1/1.9 (pursuing a 1 shot policy drive)

Ireland doing ok overall but need to keep the progress up. Row in behind the efforts made by health pros on this one.

Sephiroth_dude

costacorta wrote: »

He would have more brains in his big toe than the likes of you giving out stink behind your laptop or I phone . Can’t all be experts on everything like you and you’re cronies on here ..

Don't post in here again.

James Brown

Talk of increasing the list of countries people returning from need go into mandatory quarantine.
I think a negative Covid test result and quarantine is only practical IMO.

Finty Lemon

James Brown wrote: »

I understand your excuse. I don't accept it as reasonable.
Why use an Irish lone businessman with no record for importing, with no medical equipment affiliations who's only credentials involve booking gigs in the middle east? People should be sacked. We also need a criminal investigation to look for any crony deal.

I would have done a better job. I would have called a medical equipment import company who would know reputable dealers. I wouldn't have given 14 mill up front to a relative nobody, (maybe he knows someone?).
As a last resort I would have rang around suppliers in various countries.

Who picked this lad? Who decided to give him 14 mill up front? Did they exhaust all other avenues?

I trust in shrugging off this 14mill you'll be as forgiving in other areas ongoing.
I'm not gleeful I'm pissed off with this kind thing. It's either idiocy or fraud IMO.

Call a medical supply company? Genius. Man, why didn't the HSE think of that?
What job do you have now? Could you make yourself available to the HSE, even in a consultative capacity? Your country needs you!

landofthetree

https://twitter.com/seamuscoffey/status/1375089792833228802

So why arent we cutting welfare? We are giving too much to the work shy.

blanch152

landofthetree wrote: »

https://twitter.com/seamuscoffey/status/1375089792833228802

And we have people on here telling us every day that we have record-breaking crises all the time, where will they be now that the facts are here.

James Brown

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Call a medical supply company? Genius. Man, why didn't the HSE think of that?
What job do you have now? Could you make yourself available to the HSE, even in a consultative capacity? Your country needs you!

Common sense I would have thought.

I see you have no interest in discussing it just trying to laugh it off. Fair enough.
Sure 14 mill wasted and nobody held to account. I'll get the local milkman to rustle us up some vaccines...

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

And we have people on here telling us every day that we have record-breaking crises all the time, where will they be now that the facts are here.

I'm not going to post the stats and proof every time you decide to post lies because it's convenient for your team.

As you well know and has been shown to you time and again, with quotes and links, we had record breaking numbers of homeless children. Record breaking numbers of homeless. A housing crisis. This is verifiable and verified fact.
Can you show were Coffey disputes this? Smacks of telling us the economy was going great guns while we surpassed records in numerous social crises.
You are holidaying in q-anon/climate change denial territory.

We'd a lad on here saying we couldn't have mandatory hotel quarantine, that advocating for it was advocating for a zero covid strategy. That the virus was already here, what's the point? Not enough hotels etc. etc. Very quiet on it now...oh wait, that was all you.

ExMachina1000

If voting age is lowered to 16 (most parties seem keen to do so) wouldn't that mean that parties on the left side of things ie Sf, Social Democrats etc would be the main beneficiaries with fg and Ff losing out?

The greens would also likely see voting numbers increase.

Young folk tend to be more "left leaning and more concerned about climate change etc

FrancieBrady

Colin Brophy having to defend and firefight one controversy after another on News At One is not a good look at all. Having a nightmare of a time doing it too.

James Brown

Quoting 'mean girls' while addressing the nation about covid. The golf piss up. Leaking a confidential negotiation document and shrugging it off. Passing on a note of character for an animal abuser charged again with animal abuse. Worst infection rates in the world at one point. Pushing through an affordable housing plan to benefit their own despite all quarters warning it will drive up pricing. More agricultural ministers than Spinal Tap has drummers and on and on....
Some record.

Floppybits

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Colin Brophy having to defend and firefight one controversy after another on News At One is not a good look at all. Having a nightmare of a time doing it too.

Heard that discussion and of course he threw out the auld parties playing politics line. John Wall was very good.

Bubbaclaus

Seamus Coffey always a great follow for the raw data. From 2004 to 2019, Ireland was 1 of only 2 countries in the EU15 to reduce at risk of poverty rates in the population. Given what happened to Ireland in that time period it is quite remarkable.

Not a great sign for the rest of the EU15 however for it to be increasing, particularly bad in Sweden.

https://twitter.com/seamuscoffey/status/1375090054322917376?s=19

ExMachina1000

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Seamus Coffey always a great follow for the raw data. From 2004 to 2019, Ireland was 1 of only 2 countries in the EU15 to reduce at risk of poverty rates in the population. Given what happened to Ireland in that time period it is quite remarkable.

Not a great sign for the rest of the EU15 however for it to be increasing, particularly bad in Sweden.

https://twitter.com/seamuscoffey/status/1375090054322917376?s=19

Now do one on borrowed debt for that period.
It's a mirage

Bubbaclaus

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Now do one on borrowed debt for that period.
It's a mirage

I don't follow the correlation there at all sorry. Can you expand?

FrancieBrady

That was a quick flip flop. :eek:

Yesterday:

"Stopping vaccines [there] would send a clear signal. But ultimately we would be cutting off our nose to spite our face."

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0326/1206270-hospital-vaccines/

Today:

Donnelly suspends Covid-19 vaccinations at Beacon Hospital after it gave jabs to teachers

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40252778.html

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Colin Brophy having to defend and firefight one controversy after another on News At One is not a good look at all. Having a nightmare of a time doing it too.

It’s Colm Brophy ,Francie.

You obviously weren’t listening to the programme as Colm put both O’Reilly and Hannon in their boxes.

Didn’t let O’Reilly take over and played the Ace of Trumps when he shut up Hannon with ‘BirthdayGate in Montrose’

Middle stumped her with a Yorker ,Francie.

Went down like a sack of spuds

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

It’s Colm Brophy ,Francie.

You obviously weren’t listening to the programme as Colm put both O’Reilly and Hannon in their boxes.

Didn’t let O’Reilly take over and played the Ace of Trumps when he shut up Hannon with ‘BirthdayGate in Montrose’

Middle stumped her with a Yorker ,Francie.

Went down like a sack of spuds

'Deflection' and 'pointing over there' are winning the debate now?

Dear oh dear. He spent the whole programme fire fighting Brendi. And badly into the bargain.