FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

blanch152

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

It took us 3 months to fix the mistake they made. 3 months of Level 5. It was an expensive price to pay for meaningful votes.

Any response to my proof question yesterday?

If we had come out of Level 5 in February, we would be where France and Germany are now, in real trouble.

Our numbers never got down to the level of other countries. Even though we had some on here celebrating the fact that we were for a day or two the worst in the world, that low level was never as bad as it got at other times in other countries. We were never a UK, Italy, Spain, France or Brazil.

Cluedo Monopoly

blanch152 wrote: »

If we had come out of Level 5 in February, we would be where France and Germany are now, in real trouble.

Our numbers never got down to the level of other countries. Even though we had some on here celebrating the fact that we were for a day or two the worst in the world, that low level was never as bad as it got at other times in other countries. We were never a UK, Italy, Spain, France or Brazil.

We couldn't leave Level 5 in Feb. Nobody suggested that. The damage was done in December. We have paid a very high price for going against NPHET advice in winter. You are ignoring my question.

a very cool kid

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

We couldn't leave Level 5 in Feb. Nobody suggested that. The damage was done in December. We have paid a very high price for going against NPHET advice in winter. You are ignoring my question.

What NPHET advice was ignored in the winter?

NPHET changed from level 2 on Thursday to level 5 on Sunday with little to no explanation in October. Government (rightly!) took this with a pinch of salt and implemented level 3. NPHET continued to handwring and government increased to level 5 a week after going to level 3. Cases fell a week after going to level 5, which was the result of the level 3 change.

Off the back of closing retail in October and November, we ended up with a massive rush around the first three weeks of December that drove cases through the roof. Christmas week the government were already tightening controls again and we've been locked in since Stephens Day.

The government would have been stupid to impose level 5 in December as it would have just been roundly ignored and also, it is doubtful that level 5 would have been effective this year as people get fed up of the never ending loss of liberty.

Finty Lemon

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

We couldn't leave Level 5 in Feb. Nobody suggested that. The damage was done in December. We have paid a very high price for going against NPHET advice in winter. You are ignoring my question.

I think we all need to reflect on our role at Christmas

Fann Linn

Finty Lemon wrote: »

I think we all need to reflect on our role at Christmas

I think the Govt should listen to the experts. It's only taken them a year to get the Hotel Quarantine up and running.

Finty Lemon

Fann Linn wrote: »

I think the Govt should listen to the experts. It's only taken them a year to get the Hotel Quarantine up and running.

Would that include age based vaccination?

Finty Lemon

Fann Linn wrote: »

I think the Govt should listen to the experts. It's only taken them a year to get the Hotel Quarantine up and running.

How far behind the rest of the EU is Ireland in this regard?

Finty Lemon

Finty Lemon wrote: »

How far behind the rest of the EU is Ireland in this regard?

By any discernable metric we are doing a pretty good job overall. That doesn't suit the narrative that we are stumbling from crisis to crisis, and being lead by buffoons who only care about their pensions and keeping the little man down. Every country on this planet has had to make sudden changes based on new information as the disease spread, and new variants emerged. Of course we made mistakes, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.



It's why I find much of the stuff emerging from the opposition to be so ineffective at the moment. It's all Captain Hindsight stuff. Open the pubs, keep them closed, zero covid, open retail, close retail, quarantine, no quarantine.



The Labour Party seem to be only ones dealing in any sort of reality. I suppose that's built into the muscle memory of the party as they've actually been in power and witnessed that there's complexity and nuance involved in all this.

Finty Lemon

Cumulative mortality rate is 50% that of UK.

France, Sweden,Portugal, Italy, Belgium have much higher mortality rates.
Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Estonia are lower.

Ireland is approx equal to Netherlands and Germany.

Finty Lemon

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Estonia are lower.

All small social democracies like our own. It's almost like it's the optimal way to run a society.

Finty Lemon

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Would that include age based vaccination?

My own opinion is that Gardai, SNAs, crèche staff and other front line workers handling people at risk should've stayed prioritised. I wouldn't include teachers.

Fann Linn

Finty Lemon wrote: »

How far behind the rest of the EU is Ireland in this regard?

Nphet's advising the EU now?

Finty Lemon

Fann Linn wrote: »

Nphet's advising the EU now?

No. Do you agree with age based vaccination?

Finty Lemon

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I think its fair to say that none of that is down to government policy. The people of Ireland and the multinationals deserve the credit.

ESRI 2021 analysis of Irish government tax policy since mid 1990s:

"The fiscal policy mix followed by Ireland at least since 1995 can be one of the key contributing factors to the country’s strong economic performance. Our results show that the most distorting taxes such as labour, capital and corporate taxes are lower in Ireland compared to EU average. Higher taxes in these areas are negatively correlated with hours worked and business

In general, higher taxes distort economic incentives. Our report finds that not only distortionary taxes but also that social security contributions, the main indicator of the non-wage cost, are significantly lower compared to the EU average while consumption taxes are relatively higher. Ireland’s tax mix seems to boost business investment and enhance long term growth prospects"

FF and FG tax policy central to the success of the country's economy it seems. The grownups have delivered.
Social progress is then built on economic strength. Ask Venezuela.

blanch152

Fann Linn wrote: »

I think the Govt should listen to the experts. It's only taken them a year to get the Hotel Quarantine up and running.

The experts in the travel industry, the gardai and others including legal experts told them that hotel quarantine wouldn't work. We are seeing that advice come true this week. The government should never have given in to the opposition on the quarantine issue.

Yes, the public health experts wanted hotel quarantine, but when experts differ, governments have to decide.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0406/1208259-hotel-quarantine-latest/

Look at all the gardai being unnecessarily exposed. Look at the time wasted on legal challenges.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

The experts in the travel industry, the gardai and others including legal experts told them that hotel quarantine wouldn't work. We are seeing that advice come true this week. The government should never have given in to the opposition on the quarantine issue.

Yes, the public health experts wanted hotel quarantine, but when experts differ, governments have to decide.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0406/1208259-hotel-quarantine-latest/

Look at all the gardai being unnecessarily exposed. Look at the time wasted on legal challenges.

If that's the case why are they adding EU countries to the list?
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/cabinet-to-add-eu-countries-to-mandatory-hotel-quarantine-list-next-tuesday-40284658.html

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

If that's the case why are they adding EU countries to the list?
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/cabinet-to-add-eu-countries-to-mandatory-hotel-quarantine-list-next-tuesday-40284658.html

If you read the article, you will find the following:

"Following controversy and a possible legal challenge, the Government will now re-examine the mandatory hotel quarantine system.

Ministers will look at shortening hotel stays for arrivals who produce several negative tests, how it should apply to those who have been vaccinated and if there is a way to “beef up” mandatory quarantine at home."

The rest of the article is full of slow backdowns as well. Mandatory hotel quarantine is a bad idea because it doesn't work practically.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

If you read the article, you will find the following:

"Following controversy and a possible legal challenge, the Government will now re-examine the mandatory hotel quarantine system.

Ministers will look at shortening hotel stays for arrivals who produce several negative tests, how it should apply to those who have been vaccinated and if there is a way to “beef up” mandatory quarantine at home."

The rest of the article is full of slow backdowns as well. Mandatory hotel quarantine is a bad idea because it doesn't work practically.

So you think they've only introduced it so that can say I told you so to the opposition

Finty Lemon

1 million vaccine mark hit. 250,000 a week on the way.
Pushing well ahead of EU average

Hospitalizations down 18% week on week
Mortality rates lower than UK and the EU big boys

Manners put on the unions
Working people incomes supported

Tax take ahead of expecations
New housing policy on the way

The grown-ups keep delivering

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

So you think they've only introduced it so that can say I told you so to the opposition

Really don't care what they say, all I'm doing is pointing out that all of the problems with mandatory quarantine were predictable and predicted by me.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

Really don't care what they say, all I'm doing is pointing out that all of the problems with mandatory quarantine were predictable and predicted by me.

Problems, yes, but problems can be overcome. It was needed last year and not delivered, as usual they dragged their heels and only delivered because of opposition pressure!

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0408/1208552-coronavirus-quarantine/

Cluedo Monopoly

Finty Lemon wrote: »

1 million vaccine mark hit. 250,000 a week on the way.
Pushing well ahead of EU average

Hospitalizations down 18% week on week
Mortality rates lower than UK and the EU big boys

Manners put on the unions
Working people incomes supported

Tax take ahead of expecations
New housing policy on the way

The grown-ups keep delivering

The public and frontline staff keep delivering despite everything they've had to endure and decades of inaction in relation to the health service.

5 days ago...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/results-of-landmark-opinion-poll-revealed-public-opinion-turns-on-government-regarding-covid-and-vaccine-roll-out-40272480.html

Results of landmark opinion poll revealed: Public opinion turns on Government regarding Covid and vaccine roll-out.

The public mood has dramatically shifted in the fight against Covid- 19, according to a landmark Kantar/Sunday Independent opinion poll, which has found soaring levels of disapproval at the Government's handling of the pandemic, the roll-out of the vaccination programme and duration of Level 5 restrictions to limit spread of the virus.

For the first time in a year, approval for the Government's handling of the pandemic (43pc) has dropped below the 50pc mark - a massive 19-point decrease since the last poll was taken in November/December and a 35-point drop since this time last year.

Finty Lemon

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

The public and frontline staff keep delivering despite everything they've had to endure and decades of inaction in relation to the health service.

5 days ago...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/results-of-landmark-opinion-poll-revealed-public-opinion-turns-on-government-regarding-covid-and-vaccine-roll-out-40272480.html

Results of landmark opinion poll revealed: Public opinion turns on Government regarding Covid and vaccine roll-out.

The public mood has dramatically shifted in the fight against Covid- 19, according to a landmark Kantar/Sunday Independent opinion poll, which has found soaring levels of disapproval at the Government's handling of the pandemic, the roll-out of the vaccination programme and duration of Level 5 restrictions to limit spread of the virus.

For the first time in a year, approval for the Government's handling of the pandemic (43pc) has dropped below the 50pc mark - a massive 19-point decrease since the last poll was taken in November/December and a 35-point drop since this time last year.

Poll was no surprise as all over Europe governments have suffered reduced poll numbers due to covid measures.
That will turn now as vaccine rates exponentially increase and people realise that the Governments approach, objectively measured, actually delivered for the most vulnerable. ASTI will probably help too.

Finty Lemon

Quiet here this evening. The yappers must have all their attention turned to Belfast, their true and singular interest.

Finty Lemon

No other tax system in Europe does more to reduce household income inequality than Ireland’s, according to a new study by an economist at the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI).

While the distribution of household income in Ireland is the most unequal in the EU before taxes and benefits, the study finds that Ireland’s highly progressive tax system substantially offsets this, bringing inequality in take-home income very close to the EU average.

ESRI economist and author of the study, Dr. Barra Roantree, said:

“Before taxes, inequality in Irish household income is much higher than the EU average. But our tax system does more to reduce this than any other country in Europe"

Brought to you by FF and FG

ILoveYourVibes

Finty Lemon wrote: »

No other tax system in Europe does more to reduce household income inequality than Ireland’s, according to a new study by an economist at the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI).

Out of interest what is his name? And what is this institute?
Any political affiliations?

FrancieBrady

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Out of interest what is his name? And what is this institute?
Any political affiliations?

Calpash Hueodon

Cluedo Monopoly

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Poll was no surprise as all over Europe governments have suffered reduced poll numbers due to covid measures.
That will turn now as vaccine rates exponentially increase and people realise that the Governments approach, objectively measured, actually delivered for the most vulnerable. ASTI will probably help too.

Very very difficult to reverse a trend like that and the most recent numbers look awful. The FF TDs seem very concerned. We'll see I guess

Finty Lemon

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Very very difficult to reverse a trend like that and the most recent numbers look awful. The FF TDs seem very concerned. We'll see I guess

Polls before policy = populism. True to form :rolleyes:

Cluedo Monopoly

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Polls before policy = populism. True to form :rolleyes:

Ehm...the poll is about the policy.



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/results-of-landmark-opinion-poll-revealed-public-opinion-turns-on-government-regarding-covid-and-vaccine-roll-out-40272480.html