FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

Ha Long Bay

Bowie wrote: »

Yes. We were discussing covid and you questions to lead us to SF.

Did it?

Bowie wrote: »

Yes, I'd take myself, the SD's, SF etc. or a chance on some random folk waiting on the bus over and above these incompetents. If it's making a bad deal for the tax payer they know all the angles seemingly. Get them to govern and they are out of their depth.
You hiding behind other parties doesn't improve the record of FF/FG on tackling Covid now does it?
I gave my view. No need for me to check any party line before I give it either.

This was the post I replied to.

FrancieBrady

john4321 wrote: »

If they hold their support which is currently very similar to the two other large parties how is it a new game in town?

This was what I originally questioned the other poster, how do you see a formation of government?

Do you see SF take 20% of the FF vote put them into the driving seat?

I think watching SF's behaviour is that they will not play the game as it is played.

FG or FF dominating smaller parties in a coalition. Smaller parties which seem too willing to me to play that game.

If the current shennanigins and chaos pertains in the set up then I could easily see SF being the largest party by a good few %.

James Brown

john4321 wrote: »

Did it?






This was the post I replied to.

Yes. And you didn't read it obviously choosing to speak on SF in a government handling of covid discussion, which is common TBF, used as a deflection often, but to then complain people aren't sticking to your SF line is a bit much John.

Ha Long Bay

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think watching SF's behaviour is that they will not play the game as it is played.

FG or FF dominating smaller parties in a coalition. Smaller parties which seem too willing to me to play that game.

If the current shennanigins and chaos pertains in the set up then I could easily see SF being the largest party by a good few %.

What kind of % would that be?

Say they rose to 30% how do you form a government which is the original question I asked.

James Brown

john4321 wrote: »

Thanks for quoting me out of turn. Any opinion yourself on the post you quoted or just jumping in for the sake of it?


How do you see a government formation with SD, SF and the extras required?

Apart from being happy to see more misery from FF/FG rather than SF in government, whats your opinion on the government handling of Covid?
Do you think sealing the mother/baby records for 30 years is the FF/FG state once again covering itself and the church with no regard for victims?

Ha Long Bay

Bowie wrote: »

Apart from being happy to see more misery from FF/FG rather than SF in government, whats your opinion on the government handling of Covid?
Do you think sealing the mother/baby records for 30 years is the FF/FG state once again covering itself and the church with no regard for victims?

What has any of that got to do with my original question?


If you don't want to answer thats fine just say but dont throw a bunch of whatabout at me.

James Brown

john4321 wrote: »

What has any of that got to do with my original question?


If you don't want to answer thats fine just say but dont throw a bunch of whatabout at me.

I answered already. Once FF/FG are out its a win. I know you are trawling for material to move further away from the discussion on government handling of covid or are you coming into a government thread, into a covid discussion to genuinely ask what form a SF government might take? Wrong thread boss.

Ha Long Bay

Bowie wrote: »

Yes. And you didn't read it obviously choosing to speak on SF in a government handling of covid discussion, which is common TBF, used as a deflection often, but to then complain people aren't sticking to your SF line is a bit much John.

Never mentioned or brought anything into it. Asked you a fairly easy question and still awaiting a reply.

FrancieBrady

john4321 wrote: »

What kind of % would that be?

Say they rose to 30% how do you form a government which is the original question I asked.

You negotiate.

Ha Long Bay

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You negotiate.

With who and on what conditions? What would be the deal breakers preventing SF creating a government?

FrancieBrady

john4321 wrote: »

With who and on what conditions? What would be the deal breakers preventing SF creating a government?

We'll talk about all that at next election time.

You are looking for detail only a member of SF can give.

Ha Long Bay

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We'll talk about all that at next election time.

You are looking for detail only a member of SF can give.

Ill rephrase the question.

With who and on what conditions would you like to see the next Government formed? What would be the deal breakers preventing you as a SF voter prevent you from voting SF?

Bishop of hope

In fairness the HSE have bungled the most basic need in surpressing the virus in contact tracing.
Not sure who is to blame but certainly it needs to be righted and it looks like it has now.
But once again it heightens people's frustrations and need to apportion blame somewhere else.
The HSE is a disaster in good times let alone in a virus outbreak.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

The level of ignorance of politics around here is quite astounding.

The Commission of Investigation is covering events up to 1998.

The Greens first entered government in 2007. How can you accuse them of covering up something they did? Those posts are just bizarre.

Epic failure on your part lads to establish another silly conspiracy theory.

Green senators voting along the same lines as FFG to block people getting to the truth for another 30 years is a complete sell out. If the Greens weren't propping up this stack of sh1te I doubt they would have voted the way they did.

They did as they were told or Eamonn Ryan was asleep again while they were having the conversation about it.....

grayzer75

Bishop of hope wrote: »

In fairness the HSE have bungled the most basic need in surpressing the virus in contact tracing.
Not sure who is to blame but certainly it needs to be righted and it looks like it has now.
But once again it heightens people's frustrations and need to apportion blame somewhere else.
The HSE is a disaster in good times let alone in a virus outbreak.

Too many spoofers in the management of that organisation. The people on the frontline are doing the best they can, including the contact tracers but questions have to be asked about the number of levels of management from the frontline up who can't seem to get anything right and of course being Ireland there's no consequences for doing a really sh1t job in the public sector.

Where is all the extra cash being spent, is being spent on frontline staff, bed capacity or middle management spoofers?

FrancieBrady

john4321 wrote: »

Ill rephrase the question.

With who and on what conditions would you like to see the next Government formed? What would be the deal breakers preventing you as a SF voter prevent you from voting SF?

I may not even vote SF next time. As I said, I will be happy to discuss during the next election campaign.

FrancieBrady

grayzer75 wrote: »

Too many spoofers in the management of that organisation. The people on the frontline are doing the best they can, including the contact tracers but questions have to be asked about the number of levels of management from the frontline up who can't seem to get anything right and of course being Ireland there's no consequences for doing a really sh1t job in the public sector.

Where is all the extra cash being spent, is being spent on frontline staff, bed capacity or middle management spoofers?

Can't remember who said it at the time, but it was claimed that the HSE responded well at the beginning because so many in management and admin actually had something to do. Pointing at the waste and excess that has developed over the years.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Because we were discussing covid. You posed a SF question then was critical of someone for not addressing your SF line.

Do you think FF/FG are doing a good job? Do you think if people are critical they should be able to discuss it without people trying to change the subject?

Yes, relative to other countries, FF/FG are doing a good job in controlling Covid.

We are seeing record numbers all over the place, all over Europe, France in a bad way, we are seeing two weeks of cases in Northern Ireland not being contact-traced, we are seeing Poland doubling cases, all over the place, there are countries doing far worse.

It is an incredibly naive position to expect Ireland, with a Common Travel Area with the UK, to eliminate the virus when such a mess is being made over there.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, relative to other countries, FF/FG are doing a good job in controlling Covid.

We are seeing record numbers all over the place, all over Europe, France in a bad way, we are seeing two weeks of cases in Northern Ireland not being contact-traced, we are seeing Poland doubling cases, all over the place, there are countries doing far worse.

It is an incredibly naive position to expect Ireland, with a Common Travel Area with the UK, to eliminate the virus when such a mess is being made over there.

The 'ah shure, it is worse over there' no accountability excuse. Have to say, you write it well.

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

Green senators voting along the same lines as FFG to block people getting to the truth for another 30 years is a complete sell out. If the Greens weren't propping up this stack of sh1te I doubt they would have voted the way they did.

They did as they were told or Eamonn Ryan was asleep again while they were having the conversation about it.....

You can't move the goalposts like that.

The poster accused the Greens of covering up past sins. You agreed with him.

I just gave you both a lesson in history. No more, no less, correcting the facts. Are you going to accept that the Greens are not covering up their past?

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I may not even vote SF next time. As I said, I will be happy to discuss during the next election campaign.

Why? Are the dissidents launching a party that might be more attractive to you?

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

You can't move the goalposts like that.

The poster accused the Greens of covering up past sins. You agreed with him.

I just gave you both a lesson in history. No more, no less, correcting the facts. Are you going to accept that the Greens are not covering up their past?

The Greens are helping to cover up the past of their masters in government which makes them equally complicit. You cannot vote to bury the truth for 30 years and then say ah sure it was nothing to do with us anyway. If that's the case, lets hear the reasons why the wonderful Green Party would want to supress the truth and why they felt the need to vote with the government on this.

FrancieBrady

grayzer75 wrote: »

The Greens are helping to cover up the past of their masters in government which makes them equally complicit. You cannot vote to bury the truth for 30 years and then say ah sure it was nothing to do with us anyway. If that's the case, lets hear the reasons why the wonderful Green Party would want to supress the truth and why they felt the need to vote with the government on this.

The track record of FG and FF is to obfuscate, cover -up and delay any inquiry into past actions of one or the other while in government. Greens now joining the party to sit in the comfy seats.
Vicky Phelan being the latest to highlight it.

https://twitter.com/orlaryan/status/1319179793452158976

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'ah shure, it is worse over there' no accountability excuse. Have to say, you write it well.

Well, Francie, how do you measure the Government's performance in relation to an unprecedented pandemic that is killing people all over the world?

Playing politics and pretending a small country like ours with a porous border to an incompetent regime up North should be doing better is just silly. Benchmark the government's performance to other countries is the way of looking at this. Furthermore, we don't have the Korean, Scandanavian or Germanic culture of conformity, yet even in that context, we are doing reasonably ok.

Peddling fantasy notions that we could be New Zealand is not levelling with the Irish people.

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

The Greens are helping to cover up the past of their masters in government which makes them equally complicit. You cannot vote to bury the truth for 30 years and then say ah sure it was nothing to do with us anyway. If that's the case, lets hear the reasons why the wonderful Green Party would want to supress the truth and why they felt the need to vote with the government on this.

Sorry, you are changing the goalposts again to hide your embarrassment at not being up to speed with the history of the issue.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, Francie, how do you measure the Government's performance in relation to an unprecedented pandemic that is killing people all over the world?

Playing politics and pretending a small country like ours with a porous border to an incompetent regime up North should be doing better is just silly. Benchmark the government's performance to other countries is the way of looking at this. Furthermore, we don't have the Korean, Scandanavian or Germanic culture of conformity, yet even in that context, we are doing reasonably ok.

Peddling fantasy notions that we could be New Zealand is not levelling with the Irish people.

What about for once, just looking at how WE can do it better blanch, without using others as a crutch, or a distraction.

Never mind how others are doing, how can we be better.

Floppybits

blanch152 wrote: »

Sorry, you are changing the goalposts again to hide your embarrassment at not being up to speed with the history of the issue.

Keep on defending the indefensible. The Greens and their few supporters have sold out, you are no better than FF/FG or SF.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

Sorry, you are changing the goalposts again to hide your embarrassment at not being up to speed with the history of the issue.

I'll ask you again:

Why did the Green Party follow the government line and vote to supress the files for 30 years??????

Floppybits

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What about for once, just looking at how WE can do it better blanch, without using others as a crutch, or a distraction.

Never mind how others are doing, how can we be better.

Well the government could start by working together and stop trying to get one up on the other. Yesterday you had Helen McEntee saying that she knew of the problems in contact tracing last week but she said never said anything to anyone or else they are lying which is it.

smurgen

History repeats. God bless those effected. Anyone defending this is a disgrace and complicit as far as I'm concerned.

https://twitter.com/DrMartinDaly/status/1319199971267235848?s=19