FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

FrancieBrady

grayzer75 wrote: »

I'll ask you again:

Why did the Green Party follow the government line and vote to supress the files for 30 years??????

When you get to the answer to that question you hit the real reason FF/FG fear SF.

It has nothing to do with 'moral concerns' about the conflict/war, that is just a smokescreen, they know only to well they will not be able to dominate in this way.

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

I'll ask you again:

Why did the Green Party follow the government line and vote to supress the files for 30 years??????

It was well explained by Roderic O'Gorman, I am not going over it again.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

It was well explained by Roderic O'Gorman, I am not going over it again.

Post the link to the wonderful explanation seeing as you won't answer the question.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

History repeats. God bless those effected. Anyone defending this is a disgrace and complicit as far as I'm concerned.

https://twitter.com/DrMartinDaly/status/1319199971267235848?s=19

More incompetence from nursing home owners.

How are the HSE or the government responsible for spreading it to 26 out of 28 residents? That is on the nursing home.

is_that_so

smurgen wrote: »

History repeats. God bless those effected. Anyone defending this is a disgrace and complicit as far as I'm concerned.

https://twitter.com/DrMartinDaly/status/1319199971267235848?s=19

2 carers in a home and the home calls HSE Live and a local GP? Doesn't sound like the smartest approach.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

It was well explained by Roderic O'Gorman, I am not going over it again.

Have you a link blanch? I'd like to read that.

Bishop of hope

smurgen wrote: »

History repeats. God bless those effected. Anyone defending this is a disgrace and complicit as far as I'm concerned.

https://twitter.com/DrMartinDaly/status/1319199971267235848?s=19

After 72 hours?
Jesus, and that's whose fault exactly?

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Have you a link blanch? I'd like to read that.

https://www.thejournal.ie/mother-and-baby-homes-30-year-seal-5240663-Oct2020/

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/96a99-minister-ogorman-to-introduce-legislation-to-safeguard-the-commission-on-mother-and-baby-homes-general-archive-of-records-and-database/


A simple google search would help you, engage with the Minister on this if you want more.

blanch152

is_that_so wrote: »

2 carers in a home and the home calls HSE Live and a local GP? Doesn't sound like the smartest approach.

The only person defending anyone is smurgen who is trying to distract from the responsibiltiy of the nursing home owner on to someone else.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/mother-and-baby-homes-30-year-seal-5240663-Oct2020/

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/96a99-minister-ogorman-to-introduce-legislation-to-safeguard-the-commission-on-mother-and-baby-homes-general-archive-of-records-and-database/


A simple google search would help you, engage with the Minister on this if you want more.

So basically now he's trying to do some sort of u-turn after his party voted it through in the Seanad in line with their government masters because he's getting it in the ear from the public.

Truthvader

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/mother-and-baby-homes-30-year-seal-5240663-Oct2020/

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/96a99-minister-ogorman-to-introduce-legislation-to-safeguard-the-commission-on-mother-and-baby-homes-general-archive-of-records-and-database/


A simple google search would help you, engage with the Minister on this if you want more.

So it transpires that this is not a government "decision" but the confidential aspect was a consequence of the 2004 Act.

And still we will have the lightweights and Sinn Fein propaganda ministry frantically spreading the lie that the government are engaged in a massive cover up to protect the Church or FF/FG .

McMurphy

Truthvader wrote: »

So it transpires that this is not a government "decision" but the confidential aspect was a consequence of the 2004 Act.

And still we will have the lightweights and Sinn Fein propaganda ministry frantically spreading the lie that the government are engaged in a massive cover up to protect the Church or FF/FG .

I had Charlie The Tan Flanagan down as a lot of things, but a shinner propaganda merchant was definitely not on my list.


Should I update my list? Hmmmm.

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

I had Charlie The Tan Flanagan down as a lot of things, but a shinner propaganda merchant was definitely not on my list.


Should I update my list? Hmmmm.

:D Truth getting to the truth again?

blanch152

Truthvader wrote: »

So it transpires that this is not a government "decision" but the confidential aspect was a consequence of the 2004 Act.

And still we will have the lightweights and Sinn Fein propaganda ministry frantically spreading the lie that the government are engaged in a massive cover up to protect the Church or FF/FG .

Yes, you are correct, and this was explained before on these pages.

That doesn't stop the terrorist apologists spreading lies like slurry.

grayzer75

Truthvader wrote: »

So it transpires that this is not a government "decision" but the confidential aspect was a consequence of the 2004 Act.

And still we will have the lightweights and Sinn Fein propaganda ministry frantically spreading the lie that the government are engaged in a massive cover up to protect the Church or FF/FG .

What O'Gorman said:

"The entire premise of the 2004 Act, which we are bound to follow, is that investigations are held in private. That confidentiality applies to the evidence and records gathered by the inquiry. It is central to allow testimony be given freely."

The 2004 Act also requires that records are sealed for a period of 30 years pending their transfer to the National Archives, he added.

What a legal expert said:

However, the Oireachtas is not bound to follow the 2004 act, which was never the appropriate legislation to base an inquiry into "grave and systematic human rights abuse", according to Dr Maeve O'Rourke, director of the Human Rights Law Clinic at NUI Galway. "It can legislate, as it is intended to do regarding the database and records it wants to send to TUSLA, to 'un-seal' material gathered or created by the Commission," she said.

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

What O'Gorman said:

"The entire premise of the 2004 Act, which we are bound to follow, is that investigations are held in private. That confidentiality applies to the evidence and records gathered by the inquiry. It is central to allow testimony be given freely."

The 2004 Act also requires that records are sealed for a period of 30 years pending their transfer to the National Archives, he added.

What a legal expert said:

However, the Oireachtas is not bound to follow the 2004 act, which was never the appropriate legislation to base an inquiry into "grave and systematic human rights abuse", according to Dr Maeve O'Rourke, director of the Human Rights Law Clinic at NUI Galway. "It can legislate, as it is intended to do regarding the database and records it wants to send to TUSLA, to 'un-seal' material gathered or created by the Commission," she said.

And which part of what the government has done is incompatible with what Dr. O'Rourke has said? Read it carefully before replying.


P.S. I note you didn't provide a link to what she said, avoiding the full context again?

Nobotty

How can you be bound to follow and old law when you can completely replace it with a new reasonable one.
Should we pick a date in the past so and get rid of all reasonable laws that updated ones from that date?

blanch152

Nobotty wrote: »

How can you be bound to follow and old law when you can completely replace it with a new reasonable one.
Should we pick a date in the past so and get rid of all reasonable laws that updated ones from that date?

The Commission was established under the 2004 law. It is very difficult to change the law after the fact.

is_that_so

Nobotty wrote: »

How can you be bound to follow and old law when you can completely replace it with a new reasonable one.
Should we pick a date in the past so and get rid of all reasonable laws that updated ones from that date?

They periodically repeal laws. We did have some that were up to 800 years old! Otherwise legislation is used to amend or replace current laws.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

And which part of what the government has done is incompatible with what Dr. O'Rourke has said? Read it carefully before replying.


P.S. I note you didn't provide a link to what she said, avoiding the full context again?

I'd say it's the rushing through of the 'Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters) Records Bill 2020' which all the government parties were happy to vote through the Seanad and now O'Gorman is under pressure from the public and backtracking.

There's your link:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40064072.html

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D Truth getting to the truth again?

Poor craythur probably didn't know about Charlie's take on things to be fair (Daily Star prob didn't cover it).

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

I'd say it's the rushing through of the 'Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters) Records Bill 2020' which all the government parties were happy to vote through the Seanad and now O'Gorman is under pressure from the public and backtracking.

There's your link:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40064072.html

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/mother-and-baby-homes-30-year-seal-5240663-Oct2020/

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/96a99-minister-ogorman-to-introduce-legislation-to-safeguard-the-commission-on-mother-and-baby-homes-general-archive-of-records-and-database/


A simple google search would help you, engage with the Minister on this if you want more.

And did you read my link which stated that:

"The Dublin West TD said he had requested a detailed engagement with the Attorney General’s office and he would also request the joint Oireachtas committee on children to lead on the examination to explore major principles of access to information and make recommendations.

He said he was committed to “finding a way forward” and it remained his intention to pass the Bill through the houses urgently to safeguard the database while “doing right” by survivors."

Isn't he doing exactly what was suggested by that academic?

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

And did you read my link which stated that:

"The Dublin West TD said he had requested a detailed engagement with the Attorney General’s office and he would also request the joint Oireachtas committee on children to lead on the examination to explore major principles of access to information and make recommendations.

He said he was committed to “finding a way forward” and it remained his intention to pass the Bill through the houses urgently to safeguard the database while “doing right” by survivors."

Isn't he doing exactly what was suggested by that academic?

If he was doing right by survivors he would've listened to them from the start and not proceeded to rush the bill through and then have to back track but I'm sure you bots boys will spin it a different way as usual......

FrancieBrady

Donnelly is floundering out of his depth. If he isn't careful he could be the second Health Minister in a row to bring down a government.

https://twitter.com/NewstalkFM/status/1319230236555436033

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

And did you read my link which stated that:

"The Dublin West TD said he had requested a detailed engagement with the Attorney General’s office and he would also request the joint Oireachtas committee on children to lead on the examination to explore major principles of access to information and make recommendations.

He said he was committed to “finding a way forward” and it remained his intention to pass the Bill through the houses urgently to safeguard the database while “doing right” by survivors."

Isn't he doing exactly what was suggested by that academic?

What happened here is a perfect example of why we need and now have an effective opposition. This would have gone through without one.

grayzer75

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Donnelly is floundering out of his depth. If he isn't careful he could be the second Health Minister in a row to bring down a government.

https://twitter.com/NewstalkFM/status/1319230236555436033

But all the tennis clubs in D4 are open, fair play Simon......

Truthvader

blanch152 wrote: »

And did you read my link which stated that:

"The Dublin West TD said he had requested a detailed engagement with the Attorney General’s office and he would also request the joint Oireachtas committee on children to lead on the examination to explore major principles of access to information and make recommendations.

He said he was committed to “finding a way forward” and it remained his intention to pass the Bill through the houses urgently to safeguard the database while “doing right” by survivors."

Isn't he doing exactly what was suggested by that academic?

Apparently he is but as usual the crooked Sinn Fein Propaganda Ministry has been instructed to spread a malicious story that there is some ridiculous cover up because "Fat Leo" or FF/FG have a secret plan to protect the Catholic Church no matter what etc etc.

A stupid lie which they know to be untrue - though the "special needs" wing of the party are probably thick enough to swallow it

McMurphy

Truthvader wrote: »

Apparently he is but as usual the crooked Sinn Fein Propaganda Ministry has been instructed to spread a malicious story that there is some ridiculous cover up because "Fat Leo" or FF/FG have a secret plan to protect the Catholic Church no matter what etc etc.

A stupid lie which they know to be untrue - though the "special needs" wing of the party are probably thick enough to swallow it

You stay classy now.

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

You stay classy now.

Unreal how low this poster will stoop.

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Unreal how low this poster will stoop.

Oh Please, spare everyone your phoney sensitivity