FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

smurgen

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

You accusing anyone of Hyperbole or exaggeration is the funniest thing I've seen on boards in a while.

The fact of the matter is our Govt is failing in its attempts to control Covid, that cannot be denied. Going against NHEPT's advice is and was going to have serious concequences just like we were told and still nothing been done.

We have failed in having enough extra beds in hospital that we were told we needed in March, testing and tracing in airports still no existent, Gardaí still given no powers to stop people breaking restrictions (or turn a blind eye, i.e protests in Dublin), the leaving cert results and start to college year has been one big **** up, failed in giving extra support to people out of work and in danger on going in mortgage arrears.

The 1 thing they have done correct was 2 weekends ago when they kept the phone calls quiet with NHEPT and Minister Health quiet to try and get the weak link in the Govt to not run his mouth to the press, and the clown went ahead and did it anyway. The words were 'The Govt' had no idea this was coming, no he didn't know it was coming the people in Govt who needed to know knew

The Government made a balls of is.
Meanwhile in Wellington life goes on.

https://twitter.com/etienneshrdlu/status/1315392661621215240?s=19

Bishop of hope

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

You accusing anyone of Hyperbole or exaggeration is the funniest thing I've seen on boards in a while.

The fact of the matter is our Govt is failing in its attempts to control Covid, that cannot be denied. Going against NHEPT's advice is and was going to have serious concequences just like we were told and still nothing been done.

We have failed in having enough extra beds in hospital that we were told we needed in March, testing and tracing in airports still no existent, Gardaí still given no powers to stop people breaking restrictions (or turn a blind eye, i.e protests in Dublin), the leaving cert results and start to college year has been one big **** up, failed in giving extra support to people out of work and in danger on going in mortgage arrears.

The 1 thing they have done correct was 2 weekends ago when they kept the phone calls quiet with NHEPT and Minister Health quiet to try and get the weak link in the Govt to not run his mouth to the press, and the clown went ahead and did it anyway. The words were 'The Govt' had no idea this was coming, no he didn't know it was coming the people in Govt who needed to know knew

Not at all, we are failing in Govts attempts to control the virus.
Utter disdainful crap of a post mostly blinded by a bias that isn't worthy of a serious discussion.
Not pointing fingers at anywhere else even, but a lot of people are fed up of restricting themselves everywhere now, covid is spreading world wide and restrictions are being ignored.
The CMO every evening now is appealing to people, not govt, to obey the restrictions in place, but sadly its falling on a lot of deaf ears.

blanch152

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

You accusing anyone of Hyperbole or exaggeration is the funniest thing I've seen on boards in a while.

The fact of the matter is our Govt is failing in its attempts to control Covid, that cannot be denied. Going against NHEPT's advice is and was going to have serious concequences just like we were told and still nothing been done.

We have failed in having enough extra beds in hospital that we were told we needed in March, testing and tracing in airports still no existent, Gardaí still given no powers to stop people breaking restrictions (or turn a blind eye, i.e protests in Dublin), the leaving cert results and start to college year has been one big **** up, failed in giving extra support to people out of work and in danger on going in mortgage arrears.

The 1 thing they have done correct was 2 weekends ago when they kept the phone calls quiet with NHEPT and Minister Health quiet to try and get the weak link in the Govt to not run his mouth to the press, and the clown went ahead and did it anyway. The words were 'The Govt' had no idea this was coming, no he didn't know it was coming the people in Govt who needed to know knew

Level 3 was imposed in Dublin, and the numbers there have stabilised as people have generally co-operated with the restrictions. The numbers in hospital are under control. At current numbers in Dublin, the system appears to be able to cope.

Outside Dublin, we have seen a rise over the last few weeks, but Level 3 is only more recently imposed there.

In the border counties, there is a particular problem, with the spillover from Northern Ireland. Our government has a challenge to deal with the clowns in the North who are incapable of any sort of decision-making. We will probably need Level 4 in Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal, because of that spillover issue.

You can only measure a government's performance on Covid-19 compared to others, and there is no doubt that compared to other countries in the region, we are doing relatively well, despite the doommongerers like yourself.

Just taking one of your points, the PSNI have the power to impose fines, the Garda don't, yet the rates are higher in Northern Ireland. Why? Does the awarding of powers to police lessen the personal responsibility?

Spluttering every twenty minutes that the government is doing a bad job, (when the facts suggest otherwise when you compare) is just silly.

dundalkfc10

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Not at all, we are failing in Govts attempts to control the virus.
Utter disdainful crap of a post mostly blinded by a bias that isn't worthy of a serious discussion.
Not pointing fingers at anywhere else even, but a lot of people are fed up of restricting themselves everywhere now, covid is spreading world wide and restrictions are being ignored.
The CMO every evening now is appealing to people, not govt, to obey the restrictions in place, but sadly its falling on a lot of deaf ears.

"MOVING TO LEVEL 5 restrictions is the “only opportunity” to get Covid-19 back “under control”, Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan warned in a letter to Government last night."

Of course he is on now every evening begging the people to listen, but why would the people listen if the Govt wont listen?

smurgen

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

"MOVING TO LEVEL 5 restrictions is the “only opportunity” to get Covid-19 back “under control”, Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan warned in a letter to Government last night."

Ogf course he is on now every evening begging the people to listen, but why would the people listen if the Govt wont listen?

The Irish people done their bit. We done an extended hard lockdown diligently to give government breathing space to get their ****e together and add hospital capacity etc. In the meantime they went on holidays. They didn't do their part.

Bishop of hope

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

"MOVING TO LEVEL 5 restrictions is the “only opportunity” to get Covid-19 back “under control”, Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan warned in a letter to Government last night."

Ogf course he is on now every evening begging the people to listen, but why would the people listen if the Govt wont listen?

People need to listen, levels are just levels, we all know that over contact and mixing with others and poor hygiene is the spreader, it's us that are spreading the virus.
This country can't survive level five restriction after level five restriction.
It's ridiculous the message hasn't gotten through to people and its ridiculous that anyone blames the govt for their own stupidity.

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

Level 3 was imposed in Dublin, and the numbers there have stabilised as people have generally co-operated with the restrictions. The numbers in hospital are under control. At current numbers in Dublin, the system appears to be able to cope.

Outside Dublin, we have seen a rise over the last few weeks, but Level 3 is only more recently imposed there.

In the border counties, there is a particular problem, with the spillover from Northern Ireland. Our government has a challenge to deal with the clowns in the North who are incapable of any sort of decision-making. We will probably need Level 4 in Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal, because of that spillover issue.

You can only measure a government's performance on Covid-19 compared to others, and there is no doubt that compared to other countries in the region, we are doing relatively well, despite the doommongerers like yourself.

Just taking one of your points, the PSNI have the power to impose fines, the Garda don't, yet the rates are higher in Northern Ireland. Why? Does the awarding of powers to police lessen the personal responsibility?

Spluttering every twenty minutes that the government is doing a bad job, (when the facts suggest otherwise when you compare) is just silly.

Your comparing us to one of the worst nations in Europe.

Thats like me comparing Man Utd's bad start to the football season with Bolton instead of Man City and saying alls good in Old Trafford

Everybody were doing a great job, we are doing better than a country who have the DUP saying everything is fine up there (Donaldson yesterday)

P.S https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/health-news/dublin-not-turned-corner-regarding-22834588

Bishop of hope

smurgen wrote: »

The Irish people done their bit. We done an extended hard lockdown diligently to give government breathing space to get their ****e together and add hospital capacity etc. In the meantime they went on holidays. They didn't do their part.

So your solution is add hospital capacity and weather the virus through greater hospitalisations?
That's the school of thought that spreads the virus iwht.
A bit of cop on would be the better option.

dundalkfc10

Bishop of hope wrote: »

People need to listen, levels are just levels, we all know that over contact and mixing with others and poor hygiene is the spreader, it's us that are spreading the virus.
This country can't survive level five restriction after level five restriction.
It's ridiculous the message hasn't gotten through to people and its ridiculous that anyone blames the govt for their own stupidity.

So the people blaiming the Govt up North on these threads are wrong, its actually the people and nothing to do with SF up North.

Least we have got that straight

christy c

@dundalk, now that you have been corrected on the rates of CT in the EU, what are your thoughts? Do you agree with our government's corporate tax policy and see the folly of some of the critics?

Bishop of hope

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

So the people blaiming the Govt up North on these threads are wrong, its actually the people and nothing to do with SF up North.

Least we have got that straight

The people banging on here about our govts failures are for the most part supporters of a major partner in govt up North.
If that's your view, that our govt is to blame, then at least cop on and admit that the main opposition are as much to blame and indeed given the numbers where they govern, a damn sight worse.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Level 3 was imposed in Dublin, and the numbers there have stabilised as people have generally co-operated with the restrictions. The numbers in hospital are under control. At current numbers in Dublin, the system appears to be able to cope.

Outside Dublin, we have seen a rise over the last few weeks, but Level 3 is only more recently imposed there.

In the border counties, there is a particular problem, with the spillover from Northern Ireland. Our government has a challenge to deal with the clowns in the North who are incapable of any sort of decision-making. We will probably need Level 4 in Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal, because of that spillover issue.

You can only measure a government's performance on Covid-19 compared to others, and there is no doubt that compared to other countries in the region, we are doing relatively well, despite the doommongerers like yourself.

Just taking one of your points, the PSNI have the power to impose fines, the Garda don't, yet the rates are higher in Northern Ireland. Why? Does the awarding of powers to police lessen the personal responsibility?

Spluttering every twenty minutes that the government is doing a bad job, (when the facts suggest otherwise when you compare) is just silly.

Have you any data that backs up people in border towns from the north are bringing it over to the south?

Or is this a speculation you've plucked from an orifice where the sun don't shine?

dundalkfc10

McMurphy wrote: »

Have you any data that backs up people in border towns from the north are bringing it over to the south?

Or is this a speculation you've plucked from an orifice where the sun don't shine?

Or could it be people from the border counties in the Republic bringing it over the border, making it worse both sides. We will need to see some date from the lads on that one?

Bishop of hope

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Or could it be people from the border counties in the Republic bringing it over the border, making it worse both sides. We will need to see some date from the lads on that one?

Yes, cross spread is a big problem, close the border except for essential movements might help there.

dundalkfc10

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Yes, cross spread is a big problem, close the border except for essential movements might help there.

Il ask this question which nobody has answered.

How can we close the border?
Who will police it?
Their is over 300 border crossings in the island, thats not counting private roads which start in the Republic and end in the North (I know 3 of them on top of my head)?
What protectins will be in place to police these borders from attacks from the Provo's or Loyalists?
What about all the kids from the North who go to school in Dundalk (and other places) and all the kids from Dundalk or who to school in Newry etc?

Nobotty

I wouldn't say its a closing the border,its a mostly closing the border
You in letterkenny with a northern reg,you get fined
You in Derry with an DLreg you get fined
You're pretty much less of a risk if you are not driving into a town which most will be

Legitimate work excepted

Proper order in the current circumstances

blanch152

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Il ask this question which nobody has answered.

How can we close the border?
Who will police it?
Their is over 300 border crossings in the island, thats not counting private roads which start in the Republic and end in the North (I know 3 of them on top of my head)?
What protectins will be in place to police these borders from attacks from the Provo's or Loyalists?
What about all the kids from the North who go to school in Dundalk (and other places) and all the kids from Dundalk or who to school in Newry etc?

Are people like children that they need policing all the time?

I restrict my movements to my county, despite there being no law requiring me to do so, yet you are suggesting that people would not be able to do so in the case of the border without policing?

Bishop suggested closing the border except for essential movement. That means travel for educational purposes is allowed.

Foregoing cheap shopping across the border for people in Dundalk is a small price to pay to keep us safe.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Have you any data that backs up people in border towns from the north are bringing it over to the south?

Or is this a speculation you've plucked from an orifice where the sun don't shine?

Higher rates in the North, lower rates in the South but with rates rising as you approach the border. The figures don't lie.

Possible explanations:

(1) People in the South are genetically different to the North and less prone to the disease.
(2) Government in the North is less competent at managing the pandemic than the government in the South.
(3) Spillover from the North to the South
(4) People in the South are following the guidelines better than people in the North

Pick your one or two of those reasons.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

Are people like children that they need policing all the time?

I restrict my movements to my county, despite there being no law requiring me to do so, yet you are suggesting that people would not be able to do so in the case of the border without policing?

Bishop suggested closing the border except for essential movement. That means travel for educational purposes is allowed.

Foregoing cheap shopping across the border for people in Dundalk is a small price to pay to keep us safe.

Hotels around the border were full of Dubs for the last month escaping their level 3 restrictions so it's pointless having restrictions and no powers of enforcement.

smurgen

Bishop of hope wrote: »

So your solution is add hospital capacity and weather the virus through greater hospitalisations?
That's the school of thought that spreads the virus iwht.
A bit of cop on would be the better option.

The idea is to tackle the virus head on. Actual tracking and tracing. Add hospital capacity. Right now we're in lockdown again because hospitals are close to being overwhelmed. Everyone suffers. We're allegedly meant to be living with the virus. That's the strategy. Living would require functioning hospitals.

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

Higher rates in the North, lower rates in the South but with rates rising as you approach the border. The figures don't lie.

Possible explanations:

(1) People in the South are genetically different to the North and less prone to the disease.
(2) Government in the North is less competent at managing the pandemic than the government in the South.
(3) Spillover from the North to the South
(4) People in the South are following the guidelines better than people in the North

Pick your one or two of those reasons.

If the north was such a big issue I take it Varadkar and Martin we're onto Borris Johnson most days from the start to try get a coordinated effort between the two islands?

Nobotty

blanch152 wrote: »

Higher rates in the North, lower rates in the South but with rates rising as you approach the border. The figures don't lie.

Possible explanations:

(1) People in the South are genetically different to the North and less prone to the disease.
(2) Government in the North is less competent at managing the pandemic than the government in the South.
(3) Spillover from the North to the South
(4) People in the South are following the guidelines better than people in the North

Pick your one or two of those reasons.

How far is cork from the border?
It must be very close

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Higher rates in the North, lower rates in the South but with rates rising as you approach the border. The figures don't lie.

Possible explanations:

(1) People in the South are genetically different to the North and less prone to the disease.
(2) Government in the North is less competent at managing the pandemic than the government in the South.
(3) Spillover from the North to the South
(4) People in the South are following the guidelines better than people in the North

Pick your one or two of those reasons.

The north were doing much better than we were doing for most of the pandemic, we have almost 3 X times their population.

The border crossing from north to south is a two way street, literally.

By law of averages there's a much greater probability that citizens here either infected someone who returned to the north, and spread it on, or people from here took it with them from South to North where it spread within the community.

In saying that, there's no data that I've seen that confirms either scenario, so my theory is as likely to be hoop talking, just as much as yours is.

However, I don't have form for trying to absolve one government for the spread of infection down here, and in the next breath suggest the govt in a different jurisdiction on the same island need to take full responsibility for the infection rates in their community.

You can see clearly who flip-flops on the issue, and changes their mind to suit their own biased narrative.

Of course, should you come into possession of said data we could stop idle speculation and blame games - but that's not likely, and for the foreseeable it's just going to look like you're spreading your biased warped view on "blame the shinners, absolve FFG"

Not going to fly though.

Cluedo Monopoly

I'd like to congratulate this government for keeping a Minister for Agirculture in place for over 40 days.
A new record for the 4th minister for agriculture since the government began.

Actually has anyone actually heard from him at all?

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

Higher rates in the North, lower rates in the South but with rates rising as you approach the border. The figures don't lie.

Possible explanations:

(1) People in the South are genetically different to the North and less prone to the disease.
(2) Government in the North is less competent at managing the pandemic than the government in the South.
(3) Spillover from the North to the South
(4) People in the South are following the guidelines better than people in the North

Pick your one or two of those reasons.

(5) They do more tracking, tracing and TESTING in the north.

Nobotty

The north are doing about half the number of tests as the south despite being a third of the population
Now they've a very good testing regime

During the 1st wave,they were only testing in hospital
You can bet your bottom dollar that the real number of people with covid19 in the North earlier was way way higher than reported then
Unless one claims you only caught it in hospital which of Course would be wrong

christy c

Nobotty wrote: »

The north are doing about half the number of tests as the south despite being a third of the population
Now they've a very good testing regime

Wow, that's good going. I read we had not far off 100k tests in the last week. Do you have a link for that? Not that I'm doubting you but would like to read more

smurgen

Remember when Leo told us less hospital beds and resources was preferred?

"What can happen in some hospitals is sometimes, when they have more beds and more resources, that's what kind of slows it down."

When asked why, he replied: "Because they [hospital staff] don't feel as much under pressure.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/more-hospital-beds-can-slow-down-staff-claims-minister-leo-varadkar-34430062.html

Nobotty

I can see why you are getting a reputation for the anti leo posts,Even I'm starting to notice it

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

Higher rates in the North, lower rates in the South but with rates rising as you approach the border. The figures don't lie.

Possible explanations:

(1) People in the South are genetically different to the North and less prone to the disease.
(2) Government in the North is less competent at managing the pandemic than the government in the South.
(3) Spillover from the North to the South
(4) People in the South are following the guidelines better than people in the North

Pick your one or two of those reasons.

WOW just WOW

I was born in Newry, am i genetically different to my brother who was born in Dundalk hospital?

Have you any data that suggets Northern people are coming down here spreading the disease more than all the people from South going up north?

People in the south are not following the guidelines, its the reason cases are going up in nearly every county.