FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Microscopic hair-splitting to hide embarrassment.

Fact is Sinn Fein collapsed the Executive and the Assembly over the use of the petition of concern in relation to the burning of wood pellets and an Irish Language Act. People dying in the streets because the hospitals are too full is not important enough of an issue to rank up there.

Even the Healy-Rae's would make a better fist of running the North than Sinn Fein do.

We are in level 5 for another 2 weeks and our numbers are rising.

Told you before, you are in no position to look down your nose for political gain.

I explained how the north works,and how it id different to here, take it or leave it.

Fann Linn

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are in level 5 for another 2 weeks and our numbers are rising.

Told you before, you are in no position to look down your nose for political gain.

I explained how the north works,and how it id different to here, take it or leave it.

That's before you get to:
Leo the Leak.
Golfgate.
Wolfegate
Hogangate
2 Agriculture Ministers
Geraldine Feeney & SIPO

A lot done, more to do with the Govt of Chaos.

Solutionking

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SF are part of an executive not a government. An executive made up of 6 parties, all of them with a say in the devolved powers, which are limited.

They are a part of whatever problems NI have as a result of executive decision making or not making decisions as the case may be.
What the executive isn't is a coalition of SF/DUP. The Irish government is a coalition of parties named in this thread's title.

So, let me get this straight. It isn't SF fault?

Solutionking

Fann Linn wrote: »

That's before you get to:
Leo the Leak.
Golfgate.
Wolfegate
Hogangate
2 Agriculture Ministers
Geraldine Feeney & SIPO

A lot done, more to do with the Govt of Chaos.

Serious question, why do you say "something" gate?

its this, francis

the govt are a compromise here just as in the north

looking at govts across both seas, who arent a compromise, theres a case that that is a good thing.

but regardless

the govt is a mishmash of ff (detest them) greens (a necessary point of view but unfortunately namby pamby middle/upper middle who rub rural ireland up with utter predictable gormlessness) and fg (who had a great run of goodwill in the work done (however imperfectly) up til about 2016 odd and have done a steady job eroding that since by dint of protecting d2 consultancy, big farming and property owning interests.

theres a good thread to be had in discussing how this govt has failed on property, banking, corporate enforcement, whatever.

that would ideally include counterweight arguments about covid, wider global economic waves, brexit, what have you

its utterly impossible to have anything of the sort because of the tripe clogging the place that is either microwaved non-issue ****e (nobody is going to vote fg or otherwise based on a however-stupid move pulled by varadkar in providing low-level info to a contact, nobody is going to vote sf or otherwise based on extremely ill-judged pandemic provo funeral showcases) or stuff that is simply the costs of doing business in govt (health scandals will be inherited from previous govts: judges will not resign after upsetting the public: people will be sick of waiting for a forever home and ring joe duffy: waiting lists will exist for some hospital procedures: people will be unemployed and people will be employed and taxed too much)

when a rotating crew of sfers tagteam for weeks on end on issues any senior hurler knows fits into the above categories and a smaller crew of fgers put in an embattled defence, the thread becomes utterly useless for:

i. anyone not in one of the above extremely partisan camps, which means everyone on the site bar about six of ye

ii. discussion of the issues that arent daily star level "headline of the day" crap, which (as someone who would be glad to see an alternative to the current coalition, just not *any* alternative) i personally think would be yknow a good thing but hey im a dirty blueshirt eh

it ill reflects on the social media strategy of either side when the govt seem happy to scrap and distract with this rubbish and do nothing about housing and little enough besides

but it particularly reflects badly on the main party of opposition imo when their online presence seems to kneejerk immediately to "we have to oppose! its our job to oppose!" as if there was no such thing as *quality* of opposition, as if we couldnt expect an opposition party to prioritise their critique of govt, as if we couldn't expect the party who insist they have been done out of a fair crack at govt to come up with bloody alternatives to the actual issues instead of just churning out the most basic and obvious repeat attacks on the things that they would do no better at dealing with themselves if they were in the big chair

opposition is a serious ****in job lads, and up there or down here yer lot have done ****-all to show a desire to get in and govern

they arent even fit, on the evidence, to oppose properly.

maybe theyll rabble rouse enough to convince enough people to vote them in next time in sufficient numbers to govern in coalition.

voters, party and online fans alike will find out very quickly that that wont be a cosy spot for them, unless of course they just do what the do in the north- point to the other coalition partners and say "they made us do it!"

i cant personally see that being much good to the "26 counties" tbh but i been surprised before i guess

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

So, let me get this straight. It isn't SF fault?

Not solely and not as part of a two way coalition it isn't.

That thing you seem to hate again SK = the reality.

Of course SF bear some of the fault/responsibility.

Solutionking

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not solely and not as part of a two way coalition it isn't.

That thing you seem to hate again SK = the reality.

Of course SF bear some of the fault/responsibility.

I don't "hate" anything, Im not a 5 year old. It is a simple question and every answer I hear from SF supporters, yourself included, is that it is never their fault.

Going to a funeral in the middle of a pandemic, not their fault
Robbing government money and hiding it, not their fault
The list continues.

Yet this thread is full of accusations about the current government, who have made loads of errors, but at least they have tried to resolve, not pointed the finger blame someone else and never resolved.

James Brown

Solutionking wrote: »

Tell that to the people of Northern Ireland who are having to deal with the incompetency of the SF and DUP government, people are dying because of these idiots

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-north-s-death-rate-in-second-wave-four-times-that-of-republic-1.4405793

No, you tell them. Nothing to do with my comment anyway apart from you engaging in same.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

arah sure sf have nothing to do with anything

and if they did it would be perfect

and anything anyone else does is awful and stupid

the ****in level of discourse is great, lads.

I strongly disagree.

More made up side stepping.

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

I don't "hate" anything, Im not a 5 year old. It is a simple question and every answer I hear from SF supporters, yourself included, is that it is never their fault.

Going to a funeral in the middle of a pandemic, not their fault
Robbing government money and hiding it, not their fault

Again, the 'reality' that you hate to be reminded of in respect of me personally is that I criticised SF for both the above, immediately and unequivocally. I jut won't allow the usual crew lie about fake funerals and coffins without bodies.

Yet this thread is full of accusations about the current government, who have made loads of errors, but at least they have tried to resolve, not pointed the finger blame someone else and never resolved.

How did they resolve Leo's issue? By rounding the wagons and setting precedent that any Taoiseach can do what he did. Before SIPO and the gardai had a look at it.

BTW I am not still wittering on about the mistakes they made in Clifden in order to score points. And I never looked for resignations there either, only when the FG member lied several times did I look for his.

James Brown

Fann Linn wrote: »

That's before you get to:
Leo the Leak.
Golfgate.
Wolfegate
Hogangate
2 Agriculture Ministers
Geraldine Feeney & SIPO

A lot done, more to do with the Govt of Chaos.

And criticism of the covid stumblings reverts to ...

Solutionking wrote: »

So, let me get this straight. It isn't SF fault?

As we can't help FF/FG/Greens suiting themselves, I'm hopeful the 'but SF' attitude to every FF/FG scandal continues. It'll work out great with any luck.

James Brown

Solutionking wrote: »

I don't "hate" anything, Im not a 5 year old. It is a simple question and every answer I hear from SF supporters, yourself included, is that it is never their fault.

Going to a funeral in the middle of a pandemic, not their fault
Robbing government money and hiding it, not their fault
The list continues.

Yet this thread is full of accusations about the current government, who have made loads of errors, but at least they have tried to resolve, not pointed the finger blame someone else and never resolved.

You are mistaken or lying.
Nobody defended SF on their attendance, despite yourself and others pretending they did.
Nobody, including SF themselves think that was handled well.
Made up bluster.

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, the 'reality' that you hate to be reminded of in respect of me personally is that I criticised SF for both the above, immediately and unequivocally. I jut won't allow the usual crew lie about fake funerals and coffins without bodies.




How did they resolve Leo's issue? By rounding the wagons and setting precedent that any Taoiseach can do what he did. Before SIPO and the gardai had a look at it.

BTW I am not still wittering on about the mistakes they made in Clifden in order to score points. And I never looked for resignations there either, only when the FG member lied several times did I look for his.

It's a very sad state of affairs when all FG have to defend themselves is going after SF. This might work in their own YFG Twitter bubble but the public are not amused I'd imagine.
For any Lab/PBP/SD supporters or those with no party affiliation, hearing 'SF, SF...' anytime FG are asked questions can't be winning any hearts and minds.

Fann Linn

Solutionking wrote: »

Serious question, why do you say "something" gate?

Because of this I suppose:

🥇 Delighted the Irish Independent Political Team has won ‘Investigation of the Year’ for our work on #Votegate. Seems like two lifetimes ago now! #JournalismMatters


And don't forget #Swinggate.

Bowie

Bowie wrote: »

It's a very sad state of affairs when all FG have to defend themselves is going after SF. This might work in their own YFG Twitter bubble but the public are not amused I'd imagine.
For any Lab/PBP/SD supporters or those with no party affiliation, hearing 'SF, SF...' anytime FG are asked questions can't be winning any hearts and minds.

i agree.

i also think that the same holds true against sf---->fg and the former hold more of the responsibility across all arenas for setting that infantile tone imo

FrancieBrady

Fann Linn wrote: »

Because of this I suppose:

�� Delighted the Irish Independent Political Team has won ‘Investigation of the Year’ for our work on #Votegate. Seems like two lifetimes ago now! #JournalismMatters


And don't forget #Swinggate.

Had to have a wee giggle at those gongs. Writers of the two biggest stories of the year (investigation wise) nowhere to be seen. Unless I'm missing something.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

i agree.

i also think that the same holds true against sf---->fg and the former hold more of the responsibility across all arenas for setting that infantile tone imo

I disagree. I see SF/SD/PBP/Lab and non-party affiliates calling out FG. FF/Greens doing nothing and FG attacking SF for unrelated matters.
Also the tone from FG is disgusting and childish IMO.
Any way, glad you agree FG dodging questions regarding their own behaviour isn't working.

id refer you back to my earlier point about quality of opposition mattering.

only fools think this govt is perfect, only fools think that they are equivalent to the worst regimes anywhere in the world.

sf have a job to pick and prioritise their issues and avenues of attack, and to demonstrate their alternative solutions, maybe enough voters will perceive them to be doing that.

maybe they even think that they are doing that, i dunno- do ye?

rob316

For the love of God stop putting Donnelly in front of a camera, I can't remember a more consistently car crash minister.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

id refer you back to my earlier point about quality of opposition mattering.

only fools think this govt is perfect, only fools think that they are equivalent to the worst regimes anywhere in the world.

sf have a job to pick and prioritise their issues and avenues of attack, and to demonstrate their alternative solutions, maybe enough voters will perceive them to be doing that.

maybe they even think that they are doing that, i dunno- do ye?

Quality of opposition. Opposition are not expected to cheer on government. Generally if government are doing well they'll talk about something else or nothing. When government are seen to do wrong they speak out. Generalising here.
SF/Lab/SD etc called out FF/FG/Greens on allowing LV go unchecked for leaking a confidential document to a pal. They also raised the Woulfe appointment with FF/Green not notified about three other applicants.
That's all they can do if FF/FG/Green decide to shrug these things off.
In the least the public are aware and can make up their own minds.

No party or government is perfect but when blatant issues arise they need be called out. 'It's worse elsewhere' means **** all quite frankly as regards tackling problems or issues. And at this stage it's a well worn FG tack running out of steam.

What's the alternative to crony behaviour? Stopping it? Do you think FF/FG will stop unless cornered into doing so? Should SD/SF/Lab/PBP suggest FF/FG stop behaving all crony, do you think FF/FG will listen?

On covid, initially I thought FF/FG/Green were doing pretty well but from leaving covid cluster meat packing untouched to LV rambling on about November being too early to book flights while he watched reeling in the years, they are not so good. I think that's fair comment.

On the one hand you're asking opposition to provide alternatives while on the other giving it the 'it's worse elsewhere'.
If I want FG to answer questions I don't want the answer to be 'SF something something' and I don't think I'm alone in that. I think that's fair.

theres really no need to post the full thing every time a stór

i think given that i spelt out a fair approximation of both sides (certainly not just "there are worse places" as you pick out twice) in more than one post today, i dont need the total spin version back each time

I'll only repeat- the quality of opposition matters imo, and you reiterate your support for sf pretending every bump is a national crisis and avoiding any real presentation of alternative govt that has much credibility.

waiting for a turn in govt by default is weak.
hoping to stay in the irresponsible position that's so comfy currently on both sides of the border equally so.

but as i say, it may well sway enough voters to get a coalition spot next time, who knows?

at that stage it'll be interesting to see o'bróins housing strategy get traction, that has promise (and govt shouldve nicked it) but there's nothing else ive seen that looks like a policy or manifesto for govt

corbyns manifesto the election before last across the water was an exemplary demonstration of how planned and publicised policy can get traction- id genuinely love to see the opposition put something coherent together that could land a punch on the current lot in this sphere, but their attentions at present are as described and its little service to the public

James Brown

[Deleted User] wrote: »

theres really no need to post the full thing every time a stór

i think given that i spelt out a fair approximation of both sides (certainly not just "there are worse places" as you pick out twice) in more than one post today, i dont need the total spin version back each time

I'll only repeat- the quality of opposition matters imo, and you reiterate your support for sf pretending every bump is a national crisis and avoiding any real presentation of alternative govt that has much credibility.

waiting for a turn in govt by default is weak.
hoping to stay in the irresponsible position that's so comfy currently on both sides of the border equally so.

but as i say, it may well sway enough voters to get a coalition spot next time, who knows?

at that stage it'll be interesting to see o'bróins housing strategy get traction, that has promise (and govt shouldve nicked it) but there's nothing else ive seen that looks like a policy or manifesto for govt

corbyns manifesto the election before last across the water was an exemplary demonstration of how planned and publicised policy can get traction- id genuinely love to see the opposition put something coherent together that could land a punch on the current lot in this sphere, but their attentions at present are as described and its little service to the public

But who or what the opposition are is not for FG to hide behind when asked about things FF/FG do. Thats my criticism.

Solutionking

Bowie wrote: »

I disagree. I see SF/SD/PBP/Lab and non-party affiliates calling out FG. FF/Greens doing nothing and FG attacking SF for unrelated matters.
Also the tone from FG is disgusting and childish IMO.
Any way, glad you agree FG dodging questions regarding their own behaviour isn't working.

That's a good one. I am not sure if you are just taking the pi** or you actually believe what you are putting up on this forum but that was the best yet :P

Solutionking

Fann Linn wrote: »

Because of this I suppose:

�� Delighted the Irish Independent Political Team has won ‘Investigation of the Year’ for our work on #Votegate. Seems like two lifetimes ago now! #JournalismMatters


And don't forget #Swinggate.

So why?

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

I disagree. I see SF/SD/PBP/Lab and non-party affiliates calling out FG. FF/Greens doing nothing and FG attacking SF for unrelated matters.
Also the tone from FG is disgusting and childish IMO.
Any way, glad you agree FG dodging questions regarding their own behaviour isn't working.

Bowie wrote: »

Quality of opposition. Opposition are not expected to cheer on government. Generally if government are doing well they'll talk about something else or nothing. When government are seen to do wrong they speak out. Generalising here.
SF/Lab/SD etc called out FF/FG/Greens on allowing LV go unchecked for leaking a confidential document to a pal. They also raised the Woulfe appointment with FF/Green not notified about three other applicants.
That's all they can do if FF/FG/Green decide to shrug these things off.
In the least the public are aware and can make up their own minds.

No party or government is perfect but when blatant issues arise they need be called out. 'It's worse elsewhere' means **** all quite frankly as regards tackling problems or issues. And at this stage it's a well worn FG tack running out of steam.

What's the alternative to crony behaviour? Stopping it? Do you think FF/FG will stop unless cornered into doing so? Should SD/SF/Lab/PBP suggest FF/FG stop behaving all crony, do you think FF/FG will listen?

On covid, initially I thought FF/FG/Green were doing pretty well but from leaving covid cluster meat packing untouched to LV rambling on about November being too early to book flights while he watched reeling in the years, they are not so good. I think that's fair comment.

On the one hand you're asking opposition to provide alternatives while on the other giving it the 'it's worse elsewhere'.
If I want FG to answer questions I don't want the answer to be 'SF something something' and I don't think I'm alone in that. I think that's fair.

I could accurately sum up your post as being that you see the role of opposition to oppose for the sake of opposing, and when there is nothing to oppose, to distract by talking about tone and personally attacking personalities on the other side. You couldn't have summed up Trumpism more accurately.

The role of opposition in a democracy is to provide an alternative, a different option, a mirror to policy to show how things can be done better. The inability of Sinn Fein and the other opposition parties to do so is clear.

There is no coherent policy platform from Sinn Fein or the opposition parties, there isn't an alternative to the Programme for Government. In fact, when asked about it, they complain about FF/FG/Greens stealing their ideas. I that's a lie, it is an admittance to a failure to think of different alternatives. If it is true, it means they need to think of alternatives as what is the point of voting for Sinn Fein, if FF/FG/Greens will implement the best of their policies? The really sad things is that there are alternatives to the FF/FG/Green policies that would be better. Increasing LPT to fund housing initiatives is one idea, replacement of income tax with USC is another, reform of PRSI to make everyone pay something and the self-employed pay more for the same benefits etc. All of that would free money for improvement of services. On services, address the long teacher holidays, the grip the INMO have on staffing levels in the health service, bring childcare standards in line with the rest of Europe to reduce costs (e.g. less staff per child etc.) and sort out the compensation culture by reducing insurance payouts and criminalise false claims.

Instead the opposition look for heads for silly reasons. Throwing out baseless corruption allegations is a tired trope in need of an update.

As for your comments on Covid, someone should drop you into the middle of Derry or the American midwest without masks or sanitiser and see how you feel then about the job our government is doing. You would be fearful for your health then. No government has Covid under control - even the Australians with all their restrictions have another situation out of control today - but our government is doing better than most, and that is something as a patriotic Irishman, you should be proud of. Unfortunately, most people who style themselves as patriotic Irishmen just think its about shouting "Up the Ra" after an election, drunkenly singing rebel songs, having a laugh at unionists and voting Sinn Fein. All they do is perpetuate the myth of the drunken uncouth Irishman.

Yurt2

No government has covid under their control? C'mon blanch get a map out and fire up the Ask Jeeves search bar. Ridiculous.

As for the rest of the post. One can only guffaw at it, silly stuff.

FrancieBrady

The next **** show emerging out of the mists of chaos.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1329006559159078914

blanch152

Yurt! wrote: »

No government has covid under their control? C'mon blanch get a map out and fire up the Ask Jeeves search bar. Ridiculous.

As for the rest of the post. One can only guffaw at it, silly stuff.

Sorry, I forgot about North Korea and Turkmenistan, they have no cases and Covid-19 fully under control. Are they the examples that you believe we should follow?

Not surprised you guffaw, a Trumpian reaction to any discussion about policy and decency.

Yurt2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The next **** show emerging out of the mists of chaos.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1329006559159078914

That effing project is a rolling disaster. A public procurement expert from DCU around 2018 said it's likely going to be one of the most expensive buildings ever built and the most expensive hospital ever (in the world btw).

Utterly unbelievable.

Floppybits

Yurt! wrote: »

That effing project is a rolling disaster. A public procurement expert from DCU around 2018 said it's likely going to be one of the most expensive buildings ever built and the most expensive hospital ever (in the world btw).

Utterly unbelievable.

And after all the money spent it is not going to increase the bed capacity.