FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

grayzer75

Solutionking wrote: »

An all island approach would be preferred but that is impossible because of the incompetent government in the North.

Has it actually been tried though? There's a lot of disjointed actions been taken on both sides of the border rather than a common approach.

I do agree that those in stormont need to get their act together especially after the last week - you either go by the science or don't.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Sorry, but I will leave it there, I was trying to be helpful.

All I will say is that your post clearly sets out the case I was making. There is no real alternative put forward, just a wandering long-winded complaint about FG and Leo.

As regards Australia and New Zealand, I addressed these previously. Unless you want to close the border with the North, they won't work here.

Sure, yeah. Okay.

I previously gave an alternative to my criticisms which I shall reiterate for your reading pleasure:

'Hey Fine Gael, stop being so crony'.
I suggest they try not being crony.

You ignored the point and failed to back up your baseless claim.

You gave examples, left out others because they weakened your point.
IMO, it's not practical to close our border with the occupied portion of Ulster. As an alternative solution, which I've given before, we should be looking at an all island approach. You even commented in response when last I posted that so your claim no alternatives are ever offered is not credible.

Solutionking

grayzer75 wrote: »

Has it actually been tried though? There's a lot of disjointed actions been taken on both sides of the border rather than a common approach.

I do agree that those in stormont need to get their act together especially after the last week - you either go by the science or don't.

This was agreed early on, even when Leo was in charge he was in contact with UK and telling them what Ireland was doing. This was been given to the North as well.

Wales and Scotland could follow their own plan, yet the North decided to follow the plan England implemented. First the excuse from SF was they had to, which was BS as the whole of Wales shut itself down while England was still open. Even today they still continue to have a different strategy to Republic. Absolutely idiotic, yet we have Mary Lou, Pearse and the minions shouting about how great SF are.

Imagine how many deaths the Rep would have if SF was in actual power down here. The place would be a disaster.

grayzer75

Solutionking wrote: »

This was agreed early on, even when Leo was in charge he was in contact with UK and telling them what Ireland was doing. This was been given to the North as well.

Wales and Scotland could follow their own plan, yet the North decided to follow the plan England implemented. First the excuse from SF was they had to, which was BS as the whole of Wales shut itself down while England was still open. Even today they still continue to have a different strategy to Republic. Absolutely idiotic, yet we have Mary Lou, Pearse and the minions shouting about how great SF are.

Imagine how many deaths the Rep would have if SF was in actual power down here. The place would be a disaster.

It was the DUP who were wanting to follow Boris, it was also the DUP who vetoed all the other parties last week when there was agreement to extend the lockdown until the end of the month as per the direction of the CMO. I know you don't like SF but it was the DUP acting the **** on this issue.

Apparently the CMO has recommended schools in the north close on the 11th of December with a week of home schooling before christmas - this is one of the extra restrictions to be put in place to allow a 5 day slight easing over christmas......

Solutionking

grayzer75 wrote: »

It was the DUP who were wanting to follow Boris, it was also the DUP who vetoed all the other parties last week when there was agreement to extend the lockdown until the end of the month as per the direction of the CMO. I know you don't like SF but it was the DUP acting the **** on this issue.

Apparently the CMO has recommended schools in the north close on the 11th of December with a week of home schooling before christmas - this is one of the extra restrictions to be put in place to allow a 5 day slight easing over christmas......

Sorry I forgot, it wasn't SF fault. I don't like any political party who mantra is excuses. These threads are full of SF supporters making excuses for incompetent politicians.

SF talk a lot and have nothing to back it up, at least if they actually done some good they could really show up the Rep government but instead they are 10 times worse

James Brown

Solutionking wrote: »

Sorry I forgot, it wasn't SF fault. I don't like any political party who mantra is excuses. These threads are full of SF supporters making excuses for incompetent politicians.

SF talk a lot and have nothing to back it up, at least if they actually done some good they could really show up the Rep government but instead they are 10 times worse

You are ignoring facts because they don't suit your agenda.
If SF ruled the north unhindered you'd still be wrong. They have advocated for an all island approach. The DUP pushed to follow London.

Ah lads

Well, I tried

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah lads

Well, I tried

What's wrong now snoop?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You just ignored one of the 'alternatives' offered but shied away from by a government too afraid to offend and too afraid of supporting a political party they view as a threat. 'An all island approach to our health'.

grayzer75 wrote: »

Surely the best way would be an all island approach to achieve the outcomes of Australia / New Zealand - you couldn't close the border here if you wanted as there's too many crossing points. Have testing at every port of entry on the whole island and mandatory isolation until results are known.

An all-island approach is not a practical solution within the powers of our government. Those advocating it as the alternative to our government are being disingenuous is suggesting it, knowing that it is not achievable. Even more so, many are doing so to further a non-Covid agenda.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

An all-island approach is not a practical solution within the powers of our government. Those advocating it as the alternative to our government are being disingenuous is suggesting it, knowing that it is not achievable. Even more so, many are doing so to further a non-Covid agenda.

Why is it not 'achievable'?

Solutionking

Bowie wrote: »

You are ignoring facts because they don't suit your agenda.
If SF ruled the north unhindered you'd still be wrong. They have advocated for an all island approach. The DUP pushed to follow London.

I am not ignoring facts. I am telling the exact truth. You are ignoring facts and making up a story to suit your agenda.

The North shows that SF are unfit to be part of a government, any government. In all reality if they do get into power in the Rep they will have to go into a coalition. Based on the evidence of the North, plus the fact they couldn't get a single party to agree to join them earlier this year it shows they are incapable of adult negotiations.

Or do you think otherwise?

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

It was the DUP who were wanting to follow Boris, it was also the DUP who vetoed all the other parties last week when there was agreement to extend the lockdown until the end of the month as per the direction of the CMO. I know you don't like SF but it was the DUP acting the **** on this issue.

Apparently the CMO has recommended schools in the north close on the 11th of December with a week of home schooling before christmas - this is one of the extra restrictions to be put in place to allow a 5 day slight easing over christmas......

Nonsense, we had Pearse and Mary-Lou hysterically shouting for schools to close down here while Michelle and Conor were working to keep bookies and pubs open up North. No coherence, no cohesion, the only thing in common was that the measures were against what everyone else was proposing, allowing them to moan and whinge and criticise everything.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why is it not 'achievable'?

Where do you start???????

(1) Two different jurisdictions

Actually, no need to go further.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What's wrong now snoop?

Well Francie, with the lens that ye biyiz seem to view the world with, what's right?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Where do you start???????

(1) Two different jurisdictions

Actually, no need to go further.

Two jurisdictions that have a mechanism for joint initiatives through the British Irish Council.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why is it not 'achievable'?

Ah Francie, come on, you know fine well why?
Look at just last week, they can't agree on their own approach.
Our govt can say what they like and even what you'd like but that would probably make it even worse!

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Ah Francie, come on, you know fine well why?
Look at just last week, they can't agree on their own approach.
Our govt can say what they like and even what you'd like but that would probably make it even worse!

but but the north's situation is SF's fault we are told?

Are you suggesting that FF and FG and the Greens together would also fail to convince the DUP that an all island approach was the best possible way? How very dare you Bish!

Solutionking

FrancieBrady wrote: »

but but the north's situation is SF's fault we are told?

Are you suggesting that FF and FG and the Greens together would also fail to convince the DUP that an all island approach was the best possible way? How very dare you Bish!

SF shut down the government for 3 years in the North over a petty fight with the DUP. School yard stuff.

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

SF shut down the government for 3 years in the North over a petty fight with the DUP. School yard stuff.

Petty to you...but then what was happening for 80 years in NI was petty to the government here and partitionists, so much so that they were happy to ignore it.

What has it got to do with FF FG and Greens fear of demanding an all Ireland approach to health through the British Irish council though?

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

but but the north's situation is SF's fault we are told?

Are you suggesting that FF and FG and the Greens together would also fail to convince the DUP that an all island approach was the best possible way? How very dare you Bish!

Said it many times Francie Tbf.
But your concern on such is muck stirring really.
You know that SF if they could help it wouldn't agree on anything FF/FG/Greens or any other political rival said either, only when it suits their narrative to use against unionists or any rival.
If the unionists started to give out about our govt down here you and others would only be too happy to jump on that wagon too.

It's kinda hard to separate the hostility to the govt of the state from the hostility towards the state itself sometimes isn't it

Maybe that's a factor that bears consideration

Solutionking

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Petty to you...but then what was happening for 80 years in NI was petty to the government here and partitionists, so much so that they were happy to ignore it.

What has it got to do with FF FG and Greens fear of demanding an all Ireland approach to health through the British Irish council though?

You are trying to compare the troubles to a Renewable heating incentives issue? strange opinion to have.

James Brown

Solutionking wrote: »

I am not ignoring facts. I am telling the exact truth. You are ignoring facts and making up a story to suit your agenda.

The North shows that SF are unfit to be part of a government, any government. In all reality if they do get into power in the Rep they will have to go into a coalition. Based on the evidence of the North, plus the fact they couldn't get a single party to agree to join them earlier this year it shows they are incapable of adult negotiations.

Or do you think otherwise?

You blame SF for policy backed by the DUP. Policy SF don't want. You then claim people believe SF are never wrong when it's pointed out to you.
Now you're just scatting and be-bopping.

Yes, see above.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Where do you start???????

(1) Two different jurisdictions

Actually, no need to go further.

This would include the other option you mentioned, closing the border?
The Irish and British government are capable of organising such a thing. The DUP wouldn't wear it.
You asked for an alternative and one was presented.

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

You are trying to compare the troubles to a Renewable heating incentives issue? strange opinion to have.

No, I compared your 'opinion' to the the one that ignored what happened for 80 or more years. The opinion that thought that gerrymandering, the lack of parity of esteem and equal opportunities in housing and education was worthy of ignoring and that complaints about the same were petty and inconsequential.

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, I compared your 'opinion' to the the one that ignored what happened for 80 or more years. The opinion that thought that gerrymandering, the lack of parity of esteem and equal opportunities in housing and education was worthy of ignoring and that complaints about the same were petty and inconsequential.

Well they are having their way. Criticism of FF/FG/Greens results in the shinners and up north.
As I said, FG won't tackle their own issues. It's worn thin.

Bowie

Bowie wrote: »

Well they are having their way. Criticism of FF/FG/Greens results in the shinners and up north.
As I said, FG won't tackle their own issues. It's worn thin.

Ye

(Yes, "ye")

Have been invited to demonstrate where the shinners down south have provided anything other than the merest fig-leaf of rote criticism without even the semblance of offering understanding or alternative

The principle of opposition for opposition's sake has been critiqued and found wanting

It's been pointed out that they cannot even be bothered to pretend any issue they can find at all is less than a world-ending, govt-toppling crisis

So when this is pointed out and ye cannot even bear to pull out of the cycle to pretend to even acknowledge the points made, its rich indeed to hear ye lament that the response to lazy SF efforts here will be lazy slings about SF performance elsewhere

After all, wtf else have SF provided? Nothing of substance in opposition here, with the platform and resources available.

It's natural enough imo that Shinners throwing brickbats so lazily should have those efforts treated with likewise handwaving.

If ye want people to work harder engaging ye perhaps look upon your own tired efforts first.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Ye

(Yes, "ye")

Have been invited to demonstrate where the shinners down south have provided anything other than the merest fig-leaf of rote criticism without even the semblance of offering understanding or alternative

The principle of opposition for opposition's sake has been critiqued and found wanting

It's been pointed out that they cannot even be bothered to pretend any issue they can find at all is less than a world-ending, govt-toppling crisis

So when this is pointed out and ye cannot even bear to pull out of the cycle to pretend to even acknowledge the points made, its rich indeed to hear ye lament that the response to lazy SF efforts here will be lazy slings about SF performance elsewhere

After all, wtf else have SF provided? Nothing of substance in opposition here, with the platform and resources available.

It's natural enough imo that Shinners throwing brickbats so lazily should have those efforts treated with likewise handwaving.

If ye want people to work harder engaging ye perhaps look upon your own tired efforts first.

Instead of making this point ad nauseum, show us an example of an opposition government that was any different or behaved any differently and we can compare and contrast?

i. If I allow anyone in these threads to accuse me of repeating a point ad nauseum, it won't be one of the four tagteamers, buck. Ye have Irish political threads rendered absolutely useless- the cheek of you tbh!

ii. I offered corbyns manifesto the election as exactly that a few posts back. It was one of the posts ye ignored in order to copy and paste this week's attack points out for the fortieth time

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

i. If I allow anyone in these threads to accuse me of repeating a point as nauseum, it won't be one of the four tagteamers, buck. Ye have Irish political threads rendered absolutely useless- the cheek of you tbh!

ii. I offered corbyns manifesto the election as exactly that a few posts back. It was one of the posts ye ignored in order to copy and paste this week's attack points out for the fortieth time

Corbyn..was he in PBP?

Tell us what Irish opposition you admire?

You were repeating that point ad nauseum...bemoaning the lack of debate up to your standard. Here's you chance...give us something we can compare and contrast to.