FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

Well focus Ireland are undoubtedly biased

As are govt

As are FG within govt, with FF another way, as are greens

As are opposition

As are lobbyists for investment funds

And those looking for a HAP gaff, and those looking for a forever home, and those looking to buy their first home, those looking to trade, landlords, banks, pension funds etc

Property is a snarl that goes right to the heart of the entire system, which a govt should be looking to fix

The sooner housing as a service/need met is separate to property as an investment/nest egg the better

FG are the last party that are going to do that imo

Careful, they'll be calling you a Shinner soon
Take it from a former Labour party member, occasional FG voter.

As long as I'm fighting with *somebody* sher I don't mind

Bishop of hope

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well focus Ireland are undoubtedly biased

As are govt

As are FG within govt, with FF another way, as are greens

As are opposition

As are lobbyists for investment funds

And those looking for a HAP gaff, and those looking for a forever home, and those looking to buy their first home, those looking to trade, landlords, banks, pension funds etc

Property is a snarl that goes right to the heart of the entire system, which a govt should be looking to fix

The sooner housing as a service/need met is separate to property as an investment/nest egg the better

FG are the last party that are going to do that imo

Don't quite know how you think that, though not saying you're wrong either.
But FF are the party responsible for the separation imo.
Their shift in the buy from the market and let the market supply social housing has been the most damaging policy to ever hit housing here. Getting rid of bedsits too.
The problem is that in the boom housing became a gold dust industry and despite the crash that gold hasn't lost its value.
The perilous state of the country's finances stopped any chance of an immediate return to affordable builds, rising costs of labour and material.
Just when it seemed their was a sign or two of improvement and the prospect of a reasonable upsurge in affordable and social housing, along comes covid, all set back now for a few years imo.
But in reality going back through my lifetime anyway, housing never flourished during FG led govts as it did under FF ones, either private or social.

joeguevara

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Don't quite know how you think that, though not saying you're wrong either.
But FF are the party responsible for the separation imo.
Their shift in the buy from the market and let the market supply social housing has been the most damaging policy to ever hit housing here. Getting rid of bedsits too.
The problem is that in the boom housing became a gold dust industry and despite the crash that gold hasn't lost its value.
The perilous state of the country's finances stopped any chance of an immediate return to affordable builds, rising costs of labour and material.
Just when it seemed their was a sign or two of improvement and the prospect of a reasonable upsurge in affordable and social housing, along comes covid, all set back now for a few years imo.
But in reality going back through my lifetime anyway, housing never flourished during FG led govts as it did under FF ones, either private or social.

The hap is an absolute disgrace. My mate is living by himself round the corner for me. Had a spare room but had no interest in renting it out to a stranger. Anyway, our friend was being made homeless as the apartment he was in was being sold. As he is a friend my mate had no issue with him moving in. Then the absolute nightmare with hap begins. A room in a comparable house rented privately would be about 500 more. Hap maximum is 648 including bills. As he is a friend that’s no issue but how does hap expect someone else to find something with that allowance. Even worse 2 months in, the rent still isn’t paid. When they rang the call centre in park gate they were told that a document was missing. But never rang to ask. It was provided immediately and confirmed that the first months rent and deposit would be paid in 2 weeks. When said, that the guy has been living their for 2 and half months in and no money provided, the person said we recommend that nobody moves in until everything is processed. They literally said that the person should be left homeless instead of speeding up process. But even worse as the 2nd month is now in arrears and coming to third month due, they said that it hasn’t been assigned and will be soon and then another two weeks for payment. Rarely I give out a public service but it’s fcucked up. Firstly on the hap participants and secondly on the hap landlords.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1119/1179294-judicial-appointments/

McEntee will answer questions on judicial appointments in Dáil

No statement of explanation. She'll just answer a few questions. That's good of her.
I am sure the words 'separation of powers' will be used while ignoring the invite to the FFG elite dinner in Clifden.

FG haven't had a reliable justice minister for many years.

James Brown

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1119/1179294-judicial-appointments/



No statement of explanation. She'll just answer a few questions. That's good of her.
I am sure the words 'separation of powers' will be used while ignoring the invite to the FFG elite dinner in Clifden.

FG haven't had a reliable justice minister for many years.

As pointed out its been done previously. Plenty of room for her to explain what happened without naming the other 3 applicants.
Its not believable that the party and government who shrug off the leaking of confidential documents are truly concerned about any protocol breech.

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

As pointed out its been done previously. Plenty of room for her to explain what happened without naming the other 3 applicants.
Its not believable that the party and government who shrug off the leaking of confidential documents are truly concerned about any protocol breech.

It will be interesting.
She claims she went with the recommendation of the jaab, their only recommendation.
After that there's nothing to add regardless of other applicants and no case to answer really so it's another pointless exercise and time wasting just so the belligerent can mouth off in press filling outraged emotion.

Floppybits

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1119/1179294-judicial-appointments/



No statement of explanation. She'll just answer a few questions. That's good of her.
I am sure the words 'separation of powers' will be used while ignoring the invite to the FFG elite dinner in Clifden.

FG haven't had a reliable justice minister for many years.

I wonder are paddy power offering odds on how many times 'Separation of Power' will be used.

I wouldn't mind this is not coming into a specially arranged Dáil sitting, this is the normal slot for the Q&A of the Minister of Justice that happens on Fridays. You swear the government were being graciously accommodating here the way this has been reported.

Bishop of hope

Floppybits wrote: »

I wonder are paddy power offering odds on how many times 'Separation of Power' will be used.

I wouldn't mind this is not coming into a specially arranged Dáil sitting, this is the normal slot for the Q&A of the Minister of Justice that happens on Fridays. You swear the government were being graciously accommodating here the way this has been reported.

And they are, the Opposition are seeking to impinge on judicial business.
As long as McEntee has the recommendation from jaab as evidence of the appointment then there's nothing to add to the story.
Why Woulfe was chosen by jaab, which includes the chief justice is a matter for them to answer.
Chief Justice Clarke is on the jaab, he was one of the signatories of that recommendation and now isn't happy and is trying to get the govt to cover his arse imo.
The opposition are just wasting time here again.

The opposition again being drawn in by another vested interest and a judicial one this time shows their lack of grasping the concept of separation of powers.
The govt have shown that separation by telling them, sort out your own mess and move on.

Floppybits

Bishop of hope wrote: »

And they are, the Opposition are seeking to impinge on judicial business.
As long as McEntee has the recommendation from jaab as evidence of the appointment then there's nothing to add to the story.
Why Woulfe was chosen by jaab, which includes the chief justice is a matter for them to answer.
Chief Justice Clarke is on the jaab, he was one of the signatories of that recommendation and now isn't happy and is trying to get the govt to cover his arse imo.
The opposition are just wasting time here again.

Don't JAAB only deal with applications from those people that are not judges like say the AG? Judges who want to apply for a role need to send their interest to the Minister. So if this is the case and JAAB put forward Woulfe that is grand but what happened to the 3 other applications from Judges and the minister needs to explain what criteria she used to select Woulfe over the other applicants. She should be able to explain that easily enough.

Bishop of hope

Floppybits wrote: »

Don't JAAB only deal with applications from those people that are not judges like say the AG? Judges who want to apply for a role need to send their interest to the Minister. So if this is the case and JAAB put forward Woulfe that is grand but what happened to the 3 other applications from Judges and the minister needs to explain what criteria she used to select Woulfe over the other applicants. She should be able to explain that easily enough.

That's immaterial unless there is proof of wrongdoing, which there isn't.
By that I mean if the jaab said that they brought Woulfe forward as a political request or something like that.
It's the ministers remit to act on advice and if the jaab's advice was Woulfe then that's ideally obviously the best candidate.
The reasoning behind that can also be that despite the others being judges already, they might still not be as suitable a candidate.
Also the debate can't become about the reasoning behind picking one over the other unless wrongdoing by the Minister or govt can be proven, it can't be seen to seek and explain one's qualifications over the other.
Unless the opposition are in a position to prove McEntee or the govt did something wrong then talking or naming even others irrelevant.
To do so would be trying to influence a judicial appointment and criticising the nominated justice perhaps which is against the separation of powers.
The fairest and best way to insure that separation of power was give them who they wanted themselves.

Solutionking

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1119/1179294-judicial-appointments/



No statement of explanation. She'll just answer a few questions. That's good of her.
I am sure the words 'separation of powers' will be used while ignoring the invite to the FFG elite dinner in Clifden.

FG haven't had a reliable justice minister for many years.

It gives the chance for Mary Lou, Pearse, PBP and the rest of the numpties to shout like idiots and have zero relevance. It will keep RTE happy as they can interview someone from SF after it so they can again shout and show faux outrage but actually achieve nothing.

Then move onto next week and SF will have found something else to shout about but guess what, again they will achieve f**k all.

Best opposition ever. Who are you kidding Mary Lou, that statement should go along with the one she made about been next Taoiseach. Unless SF get some decent politicians, stop ranting and raving they will go nowhere. First because they will never get a majority and second because no party would ever want to join with them. Not even the Raving Lunatic Parties.

Brendan Bendar

Solutionking wrote: »

It gives the chance for Mary Lou, Pearse, PBP and the rest of the numpties to shout like idiots and have zero relevance. It will keep RTE happy as they can interview someone from SF after it so they can again shout and show faux outrage but actually achieve nothing.

Then move onto next week and SF will have found something else to shout about but guess what, again they will achieve f**k all.

Best opposition ever. Who are you kidding Mary Lou, that statement should go along with the one she made about been next Taoiseach. Unless SF get some decent politicians, stop ranting and raving they will go nowhere. First because they will never get a majority and second because no party would ever want to join with them. Not even the Raving Lunatic Parties.

Contender for post of the month there, King.

Clear and succinct and accurate.

Telling it as it is.

#stopwastingtimeparty

Cluedo Monopoly

Once you are explaining, you are losing.

That's politics.

The debates for GE.Next will be a hoot!

blanch152

Floppybits wrote: »

Don't JAAB only deal with applications from those people that are not judges like say the AG? Judges who want to apply for a role need to send their interest to the Minister. So if this is the case and JAAB put forward Woulfe that is grand but what happened to the 3 other applications from Judges and the minister needs to explain what criteria she used to select Woulfe over the other applicants. She should be able to explain that easily enough.

This is why judicial appointments are a mess. Judges insisted on the current system, because they didn't want a system where judges could be assessed by other judges, hence they got a right to directly apply to the Minister. This means the Minister is left with one or more nominations (in this case, one) for which there is an assessment of whether the person is suitable to be a judge and one or more other nominations (in this case, three) for which there is no assessment, and they could be the three worst judges in the State for all she knows.

Cluedo Monopoly

Solutionking wrote: »

It gives the chance for Mary Lou, Pearse, PBP and the rest of the numpties to shout like idiots and have zero relevance. It will keep RTE happy as they can interview someone from SF after it so they can again shout and show faux outrage but actually achieve nothing.

Then move onto next week and SF will have found something else to shout about but guess what, again they will achieve f**k all.

Best opposition ever. Who are you kidding Mary Lou, that statement should go along with the one she made about been next Taoiseach. Unless SF get some decent politicians, stop ranting and raving they will go nowhere. First because they will never get a majority and second because no party would ever want to join with them. Not even the Raving Lunatic Parties.

Are you talking to yourself?

I voted FG for 20 years. Now I vote SDs.

But don't let me interrupt your rage.

Floppybits

Bishop of hope wrote: »

That's immaterial unless there is proof of wrongdoing, which there isn't.
By that I mean if the jaab said that they brought Woulfe forward as a political request or something like that.
It's the ministers remit to act on advice and if the jaab's advice was Woulfe then that's ideally obviously the best candidate.
The reasoning behind that can also be that despite the others being judges already, they might still not be as suitable a candidate.
Also the debate can't become about the reasoning behind picking one over the other unless wrongdoing by the Minister or govt can be proven, it can't be seen to seek and explain one's qualifications over the other.
Unless the opposition are in a position to prove McEntee or the govt did something wrong then talking or naming even others irrelevant.
To do so would be trying to influence a judicial appointment and criticising the nominated justice perhaps which is against the separation of powers.
The fairest and best way to insure that separation of power was give them who they wanted themselves.

But that is what we don't know was there wrong doing. As I just heard on the radio the Judge applies to the AG who then passes this onto the Minister, the AG at the time was one Seamus Woulfe, bit of a conflict of interest there were a person who is applying for a job is also getting submissions from others for the same job they are applying for. All McAntee has to do is say this is the process that was used and that will clear all this up. Remember in 2017 Micheal Martin had no issue calling in the then Justice Minister to answer question on the appointment of Maire Whelan so what's his problem now?

Floppybits

joeguevara wrote: »

The hap is an absolute disgrace. My mate is living by himself round the corner for me. Had a spare room but had no interest in renting it out to a stranger. Anyway, our friend was being made homeless as the apartment he was in was being sold. As he is a friend my mate had no issue with him moving in. Then the absolute nightmare with hap begins. A room in a comparable house rented privately would be about 500 more. Hap maximum is 648 including bills. As he is a friend that’s no issue but how does hap expect someone else to find something with that allowance. Even worse 2 months in, the rent still isn’t paid. When they rang the call centre in park gate they were told that a document was missing. But never rang to ask. It was provided immediately and confirmed that the first months rent and deposit would be paid in 2 weeks. When said, that the guy has been living their for 2 and half months in and no money provided, the person said we recommend that nobody moves in until everything is processed. They literally said that the person should be left homeless instead of speeding up process. But even worse as the 2nd month is now in arrears and coming to third month due, they said that it hasn’t been assigned and will be soon and then another two weeks for payment. Rarely I give out a public service but it’s fcucked up. Firstly on the hap participants and secondly on the hap landlords.

Why anyone would be a landlord is beyond me? There is not much profit in it for anyone who just has one or two properties. I know when I was renting out my apartment when I was considering the rate to charge I had to take into account the mortgage I was paying, the tax I would have to pay and then having money in a sinking fund for repairs. Tax was paid on the full amount I charged for rent not just what left over after the mortgage was paid. The amount of rent I charged just about covered those costs. Just not worth it.

On HAP I had no problems with HAP, maybe I got lucky but the HAP was fine for me. I was paid each month on time and the full amount never had an issue. I did before the tenants when on it, then they were always a few days late.

When I went sell the apartment I had to have the eviction letter witnessed by a solicitor to confirm that I was going to sell the apartment. If I decided to change my mind I would have had to give the tenants first refusal on renting the property again.

Bishop of hope

Floppybits wrote: »

But that is what we don't know was there wrong doing. As I just heard on the radio the Judge applies to the AG who then passes this onto the Minister, the AG at the time was one Seamus Woulfe, bit of a conflict of interest there were a person who is applying for a job is also getting submissions from others for the same job they are applying for. All McAntee has to do is say this is the process that was used and that will clear all this up. Remember in 2017 Micheal Martin had no issue calling in the then Justice Minister to answer question on the appointment of Maire Whelan so what's his problem now?

I take your point there.
But it's conflicted and bordering on interference.
If there's no evidence of the Minister or govt trying influence the jaab then nothing else matters.
The fact that the AG may have been influencing something or other is again a judicial matter.

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

It gives the chance for Mary Lou, Pearse, PBP and the rest of the numpties to shout like idiots and have zero relevance. It will keep RTE happy as they can interview someone from SF after it so they can again shout and show faux outrage but actually achieve nothing.

Then move onto next week and SF will have found something else to shout about but guess what, again they will achieve f**k all.

Best opposition ever. Who are you kidding Mary Lou, that statement should go along with the one she made about been next Taoiseach. Unless SF get some decent politicians, stop ranting and raving they will go nowhere. First because they will never get a majority and second because no party would ever want to join with them. Not even the Raving Lunatic Parties.

Someone doesn't like the new order.

Twice this government has tried to avoid scrutiny and twice they have failed disastrously.

Now another embarrassing session for a senior minister in the Dáil.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Someone doesn't like the new order.

Twice this government has tried to avoid scrutiny and twice they have failed disastrously.

Now another embarrassing session for a senior minister in the Dáil.

Apart from his apology session there was no embarrassing session over the leak issue.
The opposition made fools of themselves and were shown to do so with their NCM.
Again they're bein seen to be chasing shadows here unless they have concrete evidence of wrongdoing and it doesn't appear they have.
People are getting tired of their games amid our trying to get rid the virus and lockdown.
They're shadow boxing and badly at that.
The questions have been answered so far, but no they want them answered again and again.

Floppybits

Floppybits wrote: »

Why anyone would be a landlord is beyond me? There is not much profit in it for anyone who just has one or two properties. I know when I was renting out my apartment when I was considering the rate to charge I had to take into account the mortgage I was paying, the tax I would have to pay and then having money in a sinking fund for repairs. Tax was paid on the full amount I charged for rent not just what left over after the mortgage was paid. The amount of rent I charged just about covered those costs. Just not worth it.

On HAP I had no problems with HAP, maybe I got lucky but the HAP was fine for me. I was paid each month on time and the full amount never had an issue. I did before the tenants when on it, then they were always a few days late.

When I went sell the apartment I had to have the eviction letter witnessed by a solicitor to confirm that I was going to sell the apartment. If I decided to change my mind I would have had to give the tenants first refusal on renting the property again.

A landlord who calculates the money made every month as his gain or loss has little business in the game

After twenty five years, your mortgage is paid for you. That's your money made, that's your investment. The monthlies in and out are your cost of doing business and providing a service

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It will be interesting.
She claims she went with the recommendation of the jaab, their only recommendation.
After that there's nothing to add regardless of other applicants and no case to answer really so it's another pointless exercise and time wasting just so the belligerent can mouth off in press filling outraged emotion.

If JAAB saw all four and recommended Woulfe to McEntee, you'll be correct. Even then it wouldn't have been pointless, we have to keep FG in check, they shrugged off the leaking of a confidential document to a pal.
I think the only belligerence is in the FF/FG party telling us to toddle along.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

That's immaterial unless there is proof of wrongdoing, which there isn't. ...

So if she did only put Woulfe forward she's still gold? What would be needed a recording of her saying, 'I'll fix this for Woulfe'?
FG sounding more like Bertie era FF every day.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Apart from his apology session there was no embarrassing session over the leak issue.
The opposition made fools of themselves and were shown to do so with their NCM.

It was a 'Confidence' motion actually. The government fearing embarrassment switched it around to limit speaking times.
Embarrassment is in the eye of the beholder it seems. What I seen was once more bewiderment among the public that FG FF and Greens would cover their own mistakes by attacking a single part.

Again they're bein seen to be chasing shadows here unless they have concrete evidence of wrongdoing and it doesn't appear they have.
People are getting tired of their games amid our trying to get rid the virus and lockdown.
They're shadow boxing and badly at that.
The questions have been answered so far, but no they want them answered again and again.

They have 'concrete evidence of wrongdoing' that can be thrown at Varadkar and FG whenever they choose now - Leo confessed to the wrongdoing.

As I said to somebody else trying this 'it had no effect' line of snake oil selling - if you are politically naïve enough to think that the only function of NCM or a Minister being forced to account for their actions in the Dáil, is to cause that minister to resign, then you really shouldn't be debating politics.

Solutionking

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Someone doesn't like the new order.

Twice this government has tried to avoid scrutiny and twice they have failed disastrously.

Now another embarrassing session for a senior minister in the Dáil.

What new order? are you trying to say SF are the new order? take your head out of the clouds. As I already have said if anything with all the problems the current government are having it just goes to show how incompetent SF are.

How many f**k up now have the government had since they formed? in the that what exactly have SF done to the government? maybe you think Pearse and Mary Lou shouting on the TV is a "new order" but I do remember one of you lads here posting a video of Leo and the only thing worse he could do was starting laughing and pointing at Pearse saying "look at that clown". The vote of no confidence actually backfired on SF as everyone said it was a waste of time and guess what, it was a waste of time.

Nobody is taking the opposition serious. Paul Murphy was on TV the other day and he looked like a homeless man. Social Dem I have no idea, she gets on tv and you can't even understand her. RTE stick the clowns on because they have nothing else to put on with Covid. It's that or an hour special on the US

The problem with Ireland is we don't have an opposition. We have a shower of clowns. Next week SF will be in the news again because something else will come out about them. The lad on twitter shouting about getting too many pay rises and then claims full expenses. That's the level of stupidity you are dealing with .

New order!! cop on to yourself will you

McEntee will go in, maybe she already has, say a few words! walk out, have a laugh with Leo as Mary Lou/Pearse and the rest stay crowing in the room getting absolutely nowhere.

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

What new order? are you trying to say SF are the new order? take your head out of the clouds. As I already have said if anything with all the problems the current government are having it just goes to show how incompetent SF are.

How many f**k up now have the government had since they formed? in the that what exactly have SF done to the government? maybe you think Pearse and Mary Lou shouting on the TV is a "new order" but I do remember one of you lads here posting a video of Leo and the only thing worse he could do was starting laughing and pointing at Pearse saying "look at that clown". The vote of no confidence actually backfired on SF as everyone said it was a waste of time and guess what, it was a waste of time.

Nobody is taking the opposition serious. Paul Murphy was on TV the other day and he looked like a homeless man. Social Dem I have no idea, she gets on tv and you can't even understand her. RTE stick the clowns on because they have nothing else to put on with Covid. It's that or an hour special on the US

The problem with Ireland is we don't have an opposition. We have a shower of clowns. Next week SF will be in the news again because something else will come out about them. The lad on twitter shouting about getting too many pay rises and then claims full expenses. That's the level of stupidity you are dealing with .

New order!! cop on to yourself will you

McEntee will go in, maybe she already has, say a few words! walk out, have a laugh with Leo as Mary Lou/Pearse and the rest stay crowing in the room getting absolutely nowhere.

When the FF FG Greens cling to power by circling the wagons then the public see through them for what they are.

The more that happens the more it plays into the hands of the opposition.

They are being played here by an opposition that knows exactly what it is doing. A 'new order' so to speak.

Solutionking

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When the FF FG Greens cling to power by circling the wagons then the public see through them for what they are.

The more that happens the more it plays into the hands of the opposition.

They are being played here by an opposition that knows exactly what it is doing. A 'new order' so to speak.

What are you talking about? as I said what have the opposition done on the government?

How did FF/FG circle the wagons by the way? remember the video I already shared with a TD telling us all about what SF tried to do forming a government

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

What are you talking about? as I said what have the opposition done on the government?

How did FF/FG circle the wagons by the way? remember the video I already shared with a TD telling us all about what SF tried to do forming a government

Well Leo would be over a week gone now had they not circled the wagons to protect and vote for him. Ahead of a SIPO andd Garda investigation.

If you don't find the above embarrassing I'd say you were being less than forthcoming TBH.

As I said to the Bish, if you are politically naive enough to think this is not doing damage keep it up, it's playing into the hands of an opposition that know how to play this game.

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

If JAAB saw all four and recommended Woulfe to McEntee, you'll be correct. Even then it wouldn't have been pointless, we have to keep FG in check, they shrugged off the leaking of a confidential document to a pal.
I think the only belligerence is in the FF/FG party telling us to toddle along.




So if she did only put Woulfe forward she's still gold? What would be needed a recording of her saying, 'I'll fix this for Woulfe'?
FG sounding more like Bertie era FF every day.

But she put forward the jaab nomination, not hers

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When the FF FG Greens cling to power by circling the wagons then the public see through them for what they are.

The more that happens the more it plays into the hands of the opposition.

They are being played here by an opposition that knows exactly what it is doing. A 'new order' so to speak.

The only people who matter are the electorate, a chara.

And if you think they will allow that so called opposition in to power, I’m afraid you are in for disappointment .

The Shinners and a ragtag bunch of lefties!!!!

Nah mate.