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FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

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    #2612
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    The only people who matter are the electorate, a chara.

    And if you think they will allow that so called opposition in to power, I’m afraid you are in for disappointment .

    The Shinners and a ragtag bunch of lefties!!!!

    Nah mate.

    Bad and all the current lot are, the alternative is worse.


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    #2613
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Bishop of hope wrote: »
    But she put forward the jaab nomination, not hers

    Correct, and if I am reading Section 16 (6) of the Courts and Court Officers Act, 1995 correctly, she was legally obliged to put that nomination forward first for consideration. Once, approved, all other nominations, outside of the JAAB process, fall.

    As I am not a lawyer, someone may have a different view of what is a rather complicated Act for the appointment of judges.


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    #2614
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,569 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    MikeOxsgreen wrote: »
    Bad and all the current lot are, the alternative is worse.

    Far worse Mike, and they know it too, which is why they are quite content to sit back, have a few odd shkelps of roaring and shouting confident in the notion that nobody in their right mind would elect them.

    You’ll always get the few auld warhorses down from the wind blown gorse yellow hills with nothing else to do but negatise everything.


    Of no consequence Mike........


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    #2615
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Bishop of hope wrote: »
    But she put forward the jaab nomination, not hers

    As I said, if JAAB got four applications and chose Woulfe, I see no problems.

    I don't see any issue with people keeping a government with a poor reputation in check, or any government for that matter.


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    #2616
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Bowie wrote: »
    As I said, if JAAB got four applications and choose Woulfe, I see no problems.

    What section of the 1995 Act led you to this conclusion?


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    #2617
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Well Leo would be over a week gone now had they not circled the wagons to protect and vote for him. Ahead of a SIPO andd Garda investigation.

    If you don't find the above embarrassing I'd say you were being less than forthcoming TBH.

    As I said to the Bish, if you are politically naive enough to think this is not doing damage keep it up, it's playing into the hands of an opposition that know how to play this game.

    Circled the wagon?? :p grow up. Why would I find it embarrassing. If SF was any good they would have got him out the door, hence why he was sitting laughing in the face of Pearse as he done his usual rant & roar. I would be more than happy to get Leo the kitten out but no chance SF will ever do that

    I asked you what damage they have done, trying to make little sly comments is not really an answer. Plus no idea why you say Bish? when you qoute me


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    #2618
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,208 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Solutionking wrote: »
    Circled the wagon?? :p grow up. Why would I find it embarrassing. If SF was any good they would have got him out the door,

    No they wouldn't if the government decided to ignore what he confessed to and vote for him. I.E. Circled the wagons.
    hence why he was sitting laughing in the face of Pearse as he done his usual rant & roar. I would be more than happy to get Leo the kitten out but no chance SF will ever do that

    I asked you what damage they have done, trying to make little sly comments is not really an answer. Plus no idea why you say Bish? when you qoute me

    I have no doubt he was laughing, why wouldn't he, he has Michael by the throat basically. You think the electorate don't see that?
    That is damage SK, the electorate one by one realising these two are the same thing.

    Oh the arrogance, if you don't learn fast. We know what happens when arrogance gets too big for it's boots. So I hope Leo keeps laughing.


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    #2619
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    What section of the 1995 Act led you to this conclusion?

    It was suggested that FG/McEntee only put Woulfe forward despite other applicants. If that's the case FG are proven to be crony, once again.
    That will be my conclusion.

    I'll even throw in an alternative, "Here, FG, stop being crony getting your pals jobs".


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    #2620
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users Posts: 9,431 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    When the FF FG Greens cling to power by circling the wagons then the public see through them for what they are.

    The more that happens the more it plays into the hands of the opposition.

    They are being played here by an opposition that knows exactly what it is doing. A 'new order' so to speak.

    Yep that's it exactly. It's all about the optics and the weekly optics are terrible.
    FFG are defending very murky dealings every week instead of running the country.
    We are still essentially discussing golfgate in mid November! :D

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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    #2621
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,660 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Bowie wrote: »
    As I said, if JAAB got four applications and chose Woulfe, I see no problems.

    I don't see any issue with people keeping a government with a poor reputation in check, or any government for that matter.

    JAAB as far as I am aware only receive applications from those not already a judge. If a current judge from another court is applying for a role in another court such as the SC then they would send their application to the AG who should/would forward it onto the Minister for Justice for consideration.

    From the way I am reading it, JAAB would receive all applications from non judges and would review them and then send their recommendation to the Minister for Justice for consideration, I am guessing this why the chief justice is on JAAB. The Minister for Justice would then receive all applications both the JAAB recommendation and then applications from current judges via the AG, the Minister would then review them and then bring their selection to the cabinet for approval.

    So if McEntee followed this process and all she has to do is give an explanation of the criteria she used to select the nomination for cabinet.


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    #2622
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Floppybits wrote: »
    JAAB as far as I am aware only receive applications from those not already a judge. If a current judge from another court is applying for a role in another court such as the SC then they would send their application to the AG who should/would forward it onto the Minister for Justice for consideration.

    From the way I am reading it, JAAB would receive all applications from non judges and would review them and then send their recommendation to the Minister for Justice for consideration, I am guessing this why the chief justice is on JAAB. The Minister for Justice would then receive all applications both the JAAB recommendation and then applications from current judges via the AG, the Minister would then review them and then bring their selection to the cabinet for approval.

    So if McEntee followed this process and all she has to do is give an explanation of the criteria she used to select the nomination for cabinet.

    If those with the power to decide saw all options and went with Woulfe, I've no issues with FF/Greens only being shown Woulfe as the only viable candidate.


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    #2623
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    Floppybits wrote: »
    JAAB as far as I am aware only receive applications from those not already a judge. If a current judge from another court is applying for a role in another court such as the SC then they would send their application to the AG who should/would forward it onto the Minister for Justice for consideration.

    From the way I am reading it, JAAB would receive all applications from non judges and would review them and then send their recommendation to the Minister for Justice for consideration, I am guessing this why the chief justice is on JAAB. The Minister for Justice would then receive all applications both the JAAB recommendation and then applications from current judges via the AG, the Minister would then review them and then bring their selection to the cabinet for approval.

    So if McEntee followed this process and all she has to do is give an explanation of the criteria she used to select the nomination for cabinet.

    That's simy answered as I said.
    She decided to go with the jaab recommendation.
    If Woulfe had been the ministers and govts nomination there would be a case to be made, but as they didn't there's nothing to answer.
    All the Opposition are seeking to do is ré hold job interviews so they can spout and that's not in their remit as opposition.
    They're just making a laugh of themselves again.


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    #2624
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Helen McEntee will perhaps follow Enda, and need an earpiece in the Dail, because there is no way on this green earth that she'll be able to handle a barrage of questions by the opposition on this without being guided on what to say.

    They will tear her asunder.


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    #2625
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,660 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Bowie wrote: »
    If those with the power to decide saw all options and went with Woulfe, I've no issues with FF/Greens only being shown Woulfe as the only viable candidate.

    I think it is just the minister that makes the decision after JAAB make their recommendation and I guess that the minister reviews ALL applications. Surely she didn't just go oh there's the JAAB nomination I will go with that so?

    For me I cannot understand when a vacancy becomes available in a court that they just select sitting judge from the court below. So in this case the vacancy is in the Supreme Court so they would select a Judge from those sitting in the Court of Appeal.

    And any person looking to become a judge would start in the District Court and work their way up. Seems the fairest way.


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    #2626
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    MikeOxsgreen wrote: »
    Bad and all the current lot are, the alternative is worse.

    That's the plucky attitude steered us both through and towards numerous scandals, wrong doing, frauds, criminality, wastes of tax payer money, crony appointments, generational debt, a number of recessions and a general lowering of the bar for political representatives.


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    #2627
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Bowie wrote: »
    It was suggested that FG/McEntee only put Woulfe forward despite other applicants. If that's the case FG are proven to be crony, once again.
    That will be my conclusion.

    I'll even throw in an alternative, "Here, FG, stop being crony getting your pals jobs".

    I have had a look at the Act, and it seems that the legal requirement was to put forward Woulfe's name first as the only one who came through the JAAB route.


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    #2628
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I have had a look at the Act, and it seems that the legal requirement was to put forward Woulfe's name first as the only one who came through the JAAB route.

    Can you point us towards the relevant text stating this please blanch.


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    #2629
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    No they wouldn't if the government decided to ignore what he confessed to and vote for him. I.E. Circled the wagons.



    I have no doubt he was laughing, why wouldn't he, he has Michael by the throat basically. You think the electorate don't see that?
    That is damage SK, the electorate one by one realising these two are the same thing.

    Oh the arrogance, if you don't learn fast. We know what happens when arrogance gets too big for it's boots. So I hope Leo keeps laughing.

    Are you trying to convince yourself because you ain't doing it to anyone else.

    When anyone looks at Leo, normally on the 6/9 news then next picture that comes up is Pearse or Mary Lou. So no matter how bad Leo is they look at them and see how terrible it could be,.

    The only way SF will get to power is if they never are in front of the TV like the last election when Mary Lou didn't even get invited onto the leader debate :-) Once they are front and centre like now it all goes terribly wrong.

    How they get on today with McEntee anyway?

    I doubt MM cares, he got into power. Doesn't give a f**k and can walk away now. Plus so far hasn't done too shabby even with all the f**k ups. I suppose he is about on par with the amount coming from the opposition. :P


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    #2630
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I have had a look at the Act, and it seems that the legal requirement was to put forward Woulfe's name first as the only one who came through the JAAB route.

    Do you judge the quality of your political representatives based solely on whether they broke the law or not?
    As I said if all the decision makers were made aware of all four applicants, I've no issue.
    McMurphy wrote: »
    Can you point us towards the relevant text stating this please blanch.

    He said 'it seems', this gives him an out and no requirement to follow though. I could be wrong...


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    #2631
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,208 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Solutionking wrote: »
    Are you trying to convince yourself because you ain't doing it to anyone else.

    When anyone looks at Leo, normally on the 6/9 news then next picture that comes up is Pearse or Mary Lou. So no matter how bad Leo is they look at them and see how terrible it could be,.

    The only way SF will get to power is if they never are in front of the TV like the last election when Mary Lou didn't even get invited onto the leader debate :-) Once they are front and centre like now it all goes terribly wrong.

    How they get on today with McEntee anyway?

    I doubt MM cares, he got into power. Doesn't give a f**k and can walk away now. Plus so far hasn't done too shabby even with all the f**k ups. I suppose he is about on par with the amount coming from the opposition. :P

    He's on 10% in the polls and falling.

    Leo dropped 10% in the last poll too.

    I know you don't like polls being used, so let's go back to the last election, when ML finished 2% better than Michael and 4% higher than Leo.

    Being on the telly didn't seem to hamper them then. Another of your theories blown out of the water by the facts.


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    #2632
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,077 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Bowie wrote: »
    Do you judge the quality of your political representatives based solely on whether they broke the law or not?

    First and foremost, complying with legal requirements would be ranked most important when implementing a legally mandated process. If you don't follow the law, then everything else is meaningless and moot.

    Then it is important that based on reviewing applications, the Minister decides whether the ones received deserve further consideration. Just because someone is a sitting judge, does not make them automatically deserving of being progressed in a SC Judge competition. Minister of Justice, with advisors are in the best place to determine whether other cabinet colleagues should consider them.

    I know that people were enraged that McEntee appeared to stall on putting herself forward for question time, but discussion of judicial appointments or prospective ones are confidential.

    If McEntee stands up and says, the three sitting judges that expressed interest did not have the personable, collegiate or legal brain or writing to deserve to be considered by Taoiseach, Tanaiste etc for the appointment, what can be said by the opposition?

    Not a fan of Woulfe, Im reserved on McEntee as I dont know her that well, but unless there is evidence of nefarious actions, it comes across as a pot shot.

    But I think it is appropriate to wait until she is adequately challenged and shows her understanding and ability to determine what candidates were progressed.


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    #2633
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    joeguevara wrote: »
    First and foremost, complying with legal requirements would be ranked most important when implementing a legally mandated process. If you don't follow the law, then everything else is meaningless and moot.

    Then it is important that based on reviewing applications, the Minister decides whether the ones received deserve further consideration. Just because someone is a sitting judge, does not make them automatically deserving of being progressed in a SC Judge competition. Minister of Justice, with advisors are in the best place to determine whether other cabinet colleagues should consider them.

    I know that people were enraged that McEntee appeared to stall on putting herself forward for question time, but discussion of judicial appointments or prospective ones are confidential.

    If McEntee stands up and says, the three sitting judges that expressed interest did not have the personable, collegiate or legal brain or writing to deserve to be considered by Taoiseach, Tanaiste etc for the appointment, what can be said by the opposition?

    Not a fan of Woulfe, Im reserved on McEntee as I dont know her that well, but unless there is evidence of nefarious actions, it comes across as a pot shot.

    But I think it is appropriate to wait until she is adequately challenged and shows her understanding and ability to determine what candidates were progressed.

    It's as low as the bar can go IMO. We should hold our government ministers to a higher bar.

    Agreed. If all four applicants were shown to the decision makers I see no issues. It's unfortunate but we need watch everything FF/FG do closely based on previous actions.


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    #2634
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    He's on 10% in the polls and falling.

    Leo dropped 10% in the last poll too.

    I know you don't like polls being used, so let's go back to the last election, when ML finished 2% better than Michael and 4% higher than Leo.

    Being on the telly didn't seem to hamper them then. Another of your theories blown out of the water by the facts.

    I have no idea on polls. Quick google and I find RedC and doesn't back up your info
    https://www.redcresearch.ie/where-is-the-fianna-fail-voter/

    For a person claiming to be so busy you couldn't read the SF document you have an awful lot of time to comment on this thread about other parties.


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    #2635
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bowie wrote: »
    That's the plucky attitude steered us both through and towards numerous scandals, wrong doing, frauds, criminality, wastes of tax payer money, crony appointments, generational debt, a number of recessions and a general lowering of the bar for political representatives.

    Because that's all we've had since the foundation of the state...

    As I said. Theyre bad. The alternative is even more unpalatable.


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    #2636
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    MikeOxsgreen wrote: »
    Because that's all we've had since the foundation of the state...

    As I said. Theyre bad. The alternative is even more unpalatable.

    'Unpalatable' comes across better than 'worse', 'worse' is a guess however well researched.
    Worse than bankrupt followed by generational debt would be some feat.


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    #2637
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bowie wrote: »
    'Unpalatable' comes across better than 'worse', 'worse' is a guess however well researched.
    Worse than bankrupt followed by generational debt would be some feat.

    OK, they're worse than unpalatable...

    Hurlers in the ditch with no gameplan, hurleys or talent (maybe 1) , watching a rugby match...

    Naaaa


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    #2638
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,569 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Bowie wrote: »
    'Unpalatable' comes across better than 'worse', 'worse' is a guess however well researched.
    Worse than bankrupt followed by generational debt would be some feat.

    What does the last sentence refer to, a chara.


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    #2639
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,208 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Solutionking wrote: »
    I have no idea on polls. Quick google and I find RedC and doesn't back up your info
    https://www.redcresearch.ie/where-is-the-fianna-fail-voter/

    For a person claiming to be so busy you couldn't read the SF document you have an awful lot of time to comment on this thread about other parties.

    Here you go SK. The poll, not an opinion on the poll, it the poll itself.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40048205.html

    Popping in and out answering posts. I don't have time to read a document at the moment. I'll be sure and let you know when I do.

    I will read the actual document though, not an opinion of it that makes me feel better. :)


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    #2640
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Here you go SK. The poll, not an opinion on the poll, it the poll itself.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40048205.html

    Popping in and out answering posts. I don't have time to read a document at the moment. I'll be sure and let you know when I do.

    I will read the actual document though, not an opinion of it that makes me feel better. :)

    Maybe I am blind but I don't see any poll in that link, just an opinion piece. Also if anything it confirms my point in regards to Leo. So whats the relevance

    I would acceopt you are busy BUT you have been posting non stop on this thread and others. So not really that busy are you?


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    #2641
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Solutionking wrote: »
    Maybe I am blind but I don't see any poll in that link, just an opinion piece. Also if anything it confirms my point in regards to Leo. So whats the relevance

    I would acceopt you are busy BUT you have been posting non stop on this thread and others. So not really that busy are you?

    Not blind, but it's difficult to see with your head in the sand I suppose.

    IMG-20201120-181304.jpg


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