FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

What issues though? No law was broken.

Who else was there - the issue with Judge Woulfe and the visible separation of power.

Bishop of hope

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

There was a Garda inquiry set up even though there were a load of Garda cars parked outside the venue during the dinner
That inquiry will go absolutely nowhere. The law and order party will see to that
I always wondered how no golfgate photos were leaked but I do have to thank FG for keeping the story going through lockdown, it's great craic.

I went through Clifden in October, I was going to have a coffee in a little cafe I know there, but the, whole town was wedged so I kept going.
As I passed the Mart and horse sales place there were lines about a half mile of jeeps and horseboxes on the Galway road and the place looked wedged, and that's next door to the Garda, station.
Not sure what the Gardai are doing over there, but it's not crowd control anyway it seems.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who else was there - the issue with Judge Woulfe and the visible separation of power.

Visual? It was a private event. Judges are allowed to mix with others as long as it is in private. They don't sign away their social lives you know. Hold on a second here, is nothing to do with breaking covid guidance now and is simply because they went out for a meal and not locked away from others?

Solutionking

joeguevara wrote: »

Were there actual laws broken by the Golf Event?

No
It was interesting how outraged RTE was till they decided to have a bit of a shindig. Then an old apology was all that was required.

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

Visual? It was a private event. Judges are allowed to mix with others as long as it is in private. They don't sign away their social lives you know. Hold on a second here, is nothing to do with breaking covid guidance now and is simply because they went out for a meal and not locked away from others?

What the parameters are, are vague.

Susan Denham's report, which I believe is an outstanding issue arising from Clifden that needs to be addressed.

However, a judge has to take care that his or her conduct, on or off the Bench, does not undermine the independence of the judiciary, “either by an inappropriate action or by the appearance of an inappropriate action”.

Mrs Justice Denham continues that the media coverage also reflected negatively on the Supreme Court, as a collegiate court.

“Judicial independence should be considered very seriously.

"Independence should be from the Executive and the Legislature.

“Independence is a heavy mantle for a judge to carry. It is required to be worn on and off the bench, in public life and in private life.

“It is important that judges retain the respect of the people. Thus, a judge should not take part in any conduct that is inappropriate, but also should not take part in an activity which may appear to be inappropriate to a reasonable and informed observer,” the report says.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What the parameters are, are vague.

Susan Denham's report, which I believe is an outstanding issue arising from Clifden that needs to be addressed.

I think the most important aspect in the part of Ms. Denhams report is 'of an informed observer'. The people that I have seen on twitter screaming for his head, are anything but informed observers.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Here is the report in full:

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/co-living_report_to_minister.pdf

Seems like O'Broin doesn't see it the way you do.

https://www.thejournal.ie/ban-on-co-living-5275973-Nov2020/


"Sinn Féin spokesperson on Housing Eoin Ó Broin has today called on the minister to clarify whether he intends to ban or co-living or just restrict it."

It was never the intention to have widespread co-living, it was always a niche provision. The key question then, and a detailed read of the report is needed to examine this, is whether we have reached the position where the niche need has been met, and future provision is limited. If so, there has been no change in policy.

The conspiracy theory idea of "FG, (or what ever splinter group they end up as down the road) are giving land to Goldman Sachs to build tenements that the tax payer leases for 25 years" was never going to happen under the original plan anyway. Irrational fears are a bigger feature of public discourse than ever before, we should be careful to avoid them.

I do not trust Fine Gael would stick to limiting it. I do not take them at their word.
Restricted or banned, a step in the right direction.

No conspiracy theory. An opinion of what might happen if FG and their partners are let off the leash. They have us using luxury apartments on 25 year leases as social housing. They have us buying houses off the market to use as social housing as common place. They have us assisting private companies to build to rent and then we are renting off them. They introduced the shared living model. Thinking they might run with it is not a conspiracy theory, it's an eventuality based on form.

Brendan Bendar

grayzer75 wrote: »

PSNI: Did you attend the funeral?

MON: Yes.

PSNI: Dead on, you're free to go.

PSNI Statement: We spoke to MON regarding the funeral but as there were no laws broken we could only advise not to do it again in light of public health guidance.

Enquiry closed.

Didn’t know that.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-lawyers-in-police-talks-for-michelle-oneill-interview-over-bobby-storey-funeral-attendance-39769948.html

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

I think the most important aspect in the part of Ms. Denhams report is 'of an informed observer'. The people that I have seen on twitter screaming for his head, are anything but informed observers.

A little bit of your arrogance now showing.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A little bit of your arrogance now showing.

No its not. Note, I am not saying anything on the issue as I am not an informed observer. But people calling for impeachment, or dismissal or indeed how a judge is required to act, without any knowledge of the process or requirements, are not informed observers. If knowing requirements is arrogance, what do you suggest I do?

grayzer75

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Didn’t know that.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-lawyers-in-police-talks-for-michelle-oneill-interview-over-bobby-storey-funeral-attendance-39769948.html

Covid laws came into place on the 23rd of July, almost a month after the funeral:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisr/2020/150/introduction

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A little bit of your arrogance now showing.

This comment is a bit out of order to be fair.

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

No its not. Note, I am not saying anything on the issue as I am not an informed observer. But people calling for impeachment, or dismissal or indeed how a judge is required to act, without any knowledge of the process or requirements, are not informed observers. If knowing requirements is arrogance, what do you suggest I do?

Not 'saying anything'? You just pronounced on it.

Judges are allowed to mix with others as long as it is in private. They don't sign away their social lives you know. Hold on a second here, is nothing to do with breaking covid guidance now and is simply because they went out for a meal and not locked away from others?

I showed you that there are issues about who a judge mixes with by quoting a Judge.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What the parameters are, are vague.

Susan Denham's report, which I believe is an outstanding issue arising from Clifden that needs to be addressed.

Yes, and what did Denham recommend for Woulfe?

Or are we engaged in the usual selective quoting for political purposes?

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not 'saying anything'? You just pronounced on it.



I showed you that there are issues about who a judge mixes with by quoting a Judge.

It didn't say anything about private functions. You made it out that what Denham said meant that the judge in question was breaking rules. She made out that it was what an informed observer would determine, but made no effort to give an informed observation. Except when queried, you point out that person making the query is in some way arrogant.

Cant win with you.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

I do not trust Fine Gael would stick to limiting it. I do not take them at their word.
Restricted or banned, a step in the right direction.

No conspiracy theory. An opinion of what might happen if FG and their partners are let off the leash. They have us using luxury apartments on 25 year leases as social housing. They have us buying houses off the market to use as social housing as common place. They have us assisting private companies to build to rent and then we are renting off them. They introduced the shared living model. Thinking they might run with it is not a conspiracy theory, it's an eventuality based on form.

Well, you are free to hold the opinion that you don't trust FG. I am free to hold the opinion that you are displaying irrational fear bordering on conspiracy theory with your post.

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

Covid laws came into place on the 23rd of July, almost a month after the funeral:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisr/2020/150/introduction

They are "The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020"


What happened the No.1 Regulations? Oh, here they are, made on 28th March 2020

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisr/2020/55/regulation/4/made

"8) A person who is responsible for a crematorium or burial ground must ensure that, during the emergency period, the crematorium or burial ground is closed to members of the public, except for funerals or burials."

So the law was broken at the Storey funeral. Well, well, who'd have guessed.

Still, why is this being discussed on this thread? It should be on the SF thread.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, you are free to hold the opinion that you don't trust FG. I am free to hold the opinion that you are displaying irrational fear bordering on conspiracy theory with your post.

I'm suggesting FG will continue in the manner we have become accustomed to if left unchecked. Your response is irrational.

Again, back to the main comment. Nice to see FF taking good housing tips from the shinners. No matter who implements such things, if it's good for society bring it on.
Hopefully it's a ban, but knowing FF, it'll be likely jiggered in some manner makes the most money for pals.

Solutionking

For all the people moaning about FG, hate to tell you but FF and MM are the people in power. You might have missed the whole election and all that but I can 100% confirm they are.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

They are "The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020"


What happened the No.1 Regulations? Oh, here they are, made on 28th March 2020

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisr/2020/55/regulation/4/made

"8) A person who is responsible for a crematorium or burial ground must ensure that, during the emergency period, the crematorium or burial ground is closed to members of the public, except for funerals or burials."

So the law was broken at the Storey funeral. Well, well, who'd have guessed.

Still, why is this being discussed on this thread? It should be on the SF thread.

So the council broke that law by opening both up not SF.

Are you a thread mod now?

joeguevara

Solutionking wrote: »

For all the people moaning about FG, hate to tell you but FF and MM are the people in power. You might have missed the whole election and all that but I can 100% confirm they are.

It is clear that there has been a decision made about who to attack and who to give a by to. More than likely, FF are seen as the most obvious coalition partner in the next Dail.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

They are "The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020"


What happened the No.1 Regulations? Oh, here they are, made on 28th March 2020

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisr/2020/55/regulation/4/made

"8) A person who is responsible for a crematorium or burial ground must ensure that, during the emergency period, the crematorium or burial ground is closed to members of the public, except for funerals or burials."

So the law was broken at the Storey funeral. Well, well, who'd have guessed.

Still, why is this being discussed on this thread? It should be on the SF thread.

Still trying to breath faux outrage into this shergar of a horse?
Get the fashion police onto them over the clothes they wore sure

TBF, bit rich to post on something and then pretend to call it out for being in the wrong thread

James Brown

Solutionking wrote: »

For all the people moaning about FG, hate to tell you but FF and MM are the people in power. You might have missed the whole election and all that but I can 100% confirm they are.

Yeah, you should really read the thread title. It even has 'government' in it.

Floppybits

joeguevara wrote: »

Never said you did Francie. But if no laws were broken, time to move on.

Things had kinda moved on until the details of Seamus Woulfes meeting with Denham were published and here we are now.

joeguevara

Floppybits wrote: »

Things had kinda moved on until the details of Seamus Woulfes meeting with Denham were published and here we are now.

Yeah, exactly no where cause he did nothing wrong.

Floppybits

Deleted User wrote: »

Mate FG took over a country with a housing excess and within a decade turned it into homelessness and housing crisis not seen since famine times

His fear seems well grounded to me


How many families slept in hotel rooms last night,how many are facing into their 2nd,if not 3rd xmas without a home

How many people will sleep in cars tonight,to be near work,as they dont qualify for HAP or homelessness??


Your significantly out of touch here

In 2014 the homeless figure was around 2500, 6 years later the homeless in January of this year was over 10,000. You had FG supporters on here a few days celebrating that in the 6 years, where they managed to add just under 8,000 to the homeless list, they reduced it by a mere 2000. Sure only another 6000 odd to go to get back to where we were in 2014. How anyone can claim that a success is deluded.

Floppybits

joeguevara wrote: »

Yeah, exactly no where cause he did nothing wrong.

Did I say he did anything wrong? Can you point out where I have called for him to be sacked?

joeguevara

Floppybits wrote: »

Did I say he did anything wrong? Can you point out where I have called for him to be sacked?

Did I say you did. What are you talking about? IT was you who quoted me when I said to a poster that it was time to move on as no laws had been broken.

Floppybits

joeguevara wrote: »

Did I say you did. What are you talking about? IT was you who quoted me when I said to a poster that it was time to move on as no laws had been broken.

And things had moved on until Woulfe opened his mouth and brought focus on his appointment which is what is happening now. The impeachment and sacking is just a load of nonsense. The main issue is now the Minister for Justice running of hiding and not answering questions on his appointment to the SC. If everything was done correctly and all was above board then she has nothing to fear, come into the Dail answer the questions and then this all goes away. Why the government are carrying on this way is beyond me?

joeguevara

Floppybits wrote: »

And things had moved on until Woulfe opened his mouth and brought focus on his appointment which is what is happening now. The impeachment and sacking is just a load of nonsense. The main issue is now the Minister for Justice running of hiding and not answering questions on his appointment to the SC. If everything was done correctly and all was above board then she has nothing to fear, come into the Dail answer the questions and then this all goes away. Why the government are carrying on this way is beyond me?

There is a process for answering questions in the Dail. If the opposition parties dont follow that process, that is their issue, and not the Justice Minister.