FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

FrancieBrady

Bannasidhe wrote: »

*Breaking News* Sinn Fein walk out of Parliament they don't attend.

Tell us about how the Shinners can bilocate BB and storm out of where they aren't.
Not even Houdini could pull that level of illusion off.

'If it were any other city in the world they'd be f**ked in the Liffey' as a well known Dub blow-in here said once.

joeguevara

Deleted User wrote: »

It amuses me greatly to imagine the three or four most regular posters here holding a SF govt to account in their best "I'm only asking the hard questions, maaaan" mode

The idea of, say, a FF/SF govt having managed the past eight months in any significantly better or different way than the current lot- give or take the flavour of whatever inevitable controversy would have arisen changing- is fair nonsense.

But the govt-basher cru on boards would've been defending every decision and move to the hilt.

What a game, eh

#notmyboards

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

It amuses me greatly to imagine the three or four most regular posters here holding a SF govt to account in their best "I'm only asking the hard questions, maaaan" mode

The idea of, say, a FF/SF govt having managed the past eight months in any significantly better or different way than the current lot- give or take the flavour of whatever inevitable controversy would have arisen changing- is fair nonsense.

But the govt-basher cru on boards would've been defending every decision and move to the hilt.

What a game, eh

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

I am no fan of SF (indeed am currently having a heated email exchange with an SF TD over their support for funding the greyhound industry - one of the reason I will not vote for them) but it is disingenuous to say they 'didn't have the numbers' when the fact is no party 'had the numbers' and they - a party with as democratic mandate as FG and FF - was frozen out of a chance to form a govt.

In terms of reeling from crises to crises - many of them self made - this govt is doing amazing things for the viewing figures of Tithe an Oireachtais but in terms of governing they are dire as too time has to be devoted to them making excuses for the latest self made crises and trying to wriggle out of being held accountable.
If SF would have done worse in combination with either FF/FG we will never know as FG/FF have decided that SF's mandate isn't good enough for them to enter into govt formation talks.

FrancieBrady

Things are deteriorating fast. Who will blink first. My money's on the government. Away out on a limb here.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1331300084965924867

Fann Linn

Just on 6.1 now. Opposition walk out on the cards if MM continues to shield McEntee.

McMurphy

Fann Linn wrote: »

Just on 6.1 now. Opposition walk out on the cards if MM continues to shield McEntee.

I was beginning to think Michaél was starting to find his feet in the Taoiseach role, but this behaviour with McEntee is leading me to believe he's either more involved than he's letting on, or he's being played like a fiddle by FG.

joeguevara

McMurphy wrote: »

I was beginning to think Michaél was starting to find his feet in the Taoiseach role, but this behaviour with McEntee is leading me to believe he's either more involved than he's letting on, or he's being played like a fiddle by FG.

I must admit I don't understand what they are playing at with regards this. I have gone through the prescribed process and legislation for choosing a SC j. From what we know it was followed.

Talks of a walkout is equally frightening. No party is really coming out of this looking well. But it's us who suffer.

McMurphy

joeguevara wrote: »

I must admit I don't understand what they are playing at with regards this. I have gone through the prescribed process and legislation for choosing a SC j. From what we know it was followed.

Talks of a walkout is equally frightening. No party is really coming out of this looking well. But it's us who suffer.

I've said it on other threads - if protocol was followed correctly, and everything above board, what's with the reluctance to just get out in front and answer questions by Helen McEntee here?

joeguevara

McMurphy wrote: »

I've said it on other threads - if protocol was followed correctly, and everything above board, what's with the reluctance to just get out in front and answer questions by Helen McEntee here?

I agree. Did she attend today?

With regards to opposition questions there is a process and time frame but fcuck it, get it done. Close it off. But honestly do you think that there is a real issue?

Justice minister can decide who is qualified without consultation with others. They are allowed to present one for sign off.

Can you please tell me what opposition feel was done wrong?

Fann Linn

McMurphy wrote: »

I've said it on other threads - if protocol was followed correctly, and everything above board, what's with the reluctance to just get out in front and answer questions by Helen McEntee here?

I think that's the problem. As Finian McGrath put it last week, it looks like a bit of horse-trading went on during the coalition talks and the prize was handed to McEntee to deliver, everything was hunky-dory until Clifden .
The rest they say is history.

jmcc

A General Election Christmas present from Leo The Leak and Helen Absentee? Doesn't look good for Martin's legacy as taoiseach. Is there an opinion poll due ot this week that would put FF below the psychologically important 10% level?

Regards...jmcc

Solutionking

I don't see anything on the web or anywhere to suggest the opposition are going to walk out. So why exactly do people think they are walking out?
The guy who posted it on here didn't realize the current party he/she supports, Sinn Fein, wasn't created till 1970 so I have questions over his/her credibility

Fann Linn

Solutionking wrote: »

I don't see anything on the web or anywhere to suggest the opposition are going to walk out. So why exactly do people think they are walking out?
The guy who posted it on here didn't realize the current party he/she supports, Sinn Fein, wasn't created till 1970 so I have questions over his/her credibility

They said it on 6.1news.

Fann Linn

Solutionking wrote: »

I don't see anything on the web or anywhere to suggest the opposition are going to walk out. So why exactly do people think they are walking out?
The guy who posted it on here didn't realize the current party he/she supports, Sinn Fein, wasn't created till 1970 so I have questions over his/her credibility

Sinn Fein didn't win an overwhelming victory in the 1918 First Dail, SK?

joeguevara

Solutionking wrote: »

I don't see anything on the web or anywhere to suggest the opposition are going to walk out. So why exactly do people think they are walking out?
The guy who posted it on here didn't realize the current party he/she supports, Sinn Fein, wasn't created till 1970 so I have questions over his/her credibility

Even if there is one, what does it achieve? Government can continue with out an opposition. Do they hand back their salary?

Honestly if they do, they should be reprimanded. If they are not capable of acting as an opposition, they should resign their seats. This is not stormont that they can walk away for 3 years and still get paid.

jmcc

joeguevara wrote: »

Even if there is one, what does it achieve? Government can continue with out an opposition. Do they hand back their salary?

Honestly if they do, they should be reprimanded. If they are not capable of acting as an opposition, they should resign their seats. This is not stormont that they can walk away for 3 years and still get paid.

You sound rather worried at the opposition threat of non-cooperation and a walk-out. Then there was the whining from FG about the 4 million bequest for SF. Just how strong are FG finances when it comes to fighting a snap GE? Shame there isn't another mobile phone licence to "auction", isn't it?

What would a snap GE mean for FG? Would Coveney finally take over the leadership like the FG grassroots wanted?

Regards...jmcc

Nobotty

Fann Linn wrote: »

Sinn Fein didn't win an overwhelming victory in the 1918 First Dail, SK?

Look ,normally I'd take a similar side to you
But that party was FF,FG,Current SF and several independents and it subsequently split into the splinters we have today
Its not the same Sinn Féin as the Current Sinn Féin
Michael Collins and Dev were in the original Sinn Féin
Wikipedia has it all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sinn_F%C3%A9in

Fann Linn

joeguevara wrote: »

Even if there is one, what does it achieve? Government can continue with out an opposition. Do they hand back their salary?

Honestly if they do, they should be reprimanded. If they are not capable of acting as an opposition, they should resign their seats. This is not stormont that they can walk away for 3 years and still get paid.

Well Kelly said MM has another thing coming if he thinks this affair is going to be swept away. Looks as if the opposition are more united than the govt.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Tantrum-throwing like two-year olds if they walk out. Fits the SF profile.

Wouldn't stop you supporting such a party though?

Greens stage walk-out in furious Dail debate

Fann Linn

Nobotty wrote: »

Look ,normally I'd take a similar side to you
But that party was FF,FG,Current SF and several independents and it subsequently split into the splinters we have today
Its not the same Sinn Féin as the Current Sinn Féin
Michael Collins and Dev were in the original Sinn Féin
Wikipedia has it all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sinn_F%C3%A9in

That wasn't the question. I think Blanch asked what did SF ever do for the state, or words to that effect. And I just said, they formed it. I didn't think SK was looking for a history of SF and its splits, I would have pointed him/her in the direction of O'Bradaigh or Conor Cruise for a bit of light reading if that was the case.

joeguevara

Fann Linn wrote: »

Well Kelly said MM has another thing coming if he thinks this affair is going to be swept away. Looks as if the opposition are more united than the govt.

What affair though!? Can you tell me what they think happened that breached any law or procedure? And United in a walk out? Fair play, proceed with no opposition.

Fann Linn

joeguevara wrote: »

What affair though!? Can you tell me what they think happened that breached any law or procedure? And United in a walk out? Fair play, proceed with no opposition.

As in how more experienced judges were over looked for starters.

jmcc

Fann Linn wrote: »

As in how more experienced judges were over looked for starters.

Actual judges.

Regards...jmcc

James Brown

jmcc wrote: »

You sound rather worried at the opposition threat of non-cooperation and a walk-out. Then there was the whining from FG about the 4 million bequest for SF. Just how strong are FG finances when it comes to fighting a snap GE? Shame there isn't another mobile phone licence to "auction", isn't it?

What would a snap GE mean for FG? Would Coveney finally take over the leadership like the FG grassroots wanted?

Regards...jmcc

Can't see Varadkar going any time soon. They can't dump him after putting their collective necks on the line backing him. They'll (FF/FG/Greens) need brass it out. McEntee might get demoted but again it's too much for them and too late. McEntee might get the bull**** martyr Frances Fitzgerald treatment, she did nothing wrong* but had to go because the opposition bullied her out etc. etc.
Government will trundle along hoping Brexit throws up enough dust.
Varadkar's days are certainly numbered. He's a dead man walking IMO. When he goes I hope the low brow Trump bitter snipes go too.

*disclaimer: she did.

Nobotty

Fann Linn wrote: »

That wasn't the question. I think Blanch asked what did SF ever do for the state, or words to that effect. And I just said, they formed it. I didn't think SK was looking for a history of SF and its splits, I would have pointed him/her in the direction of O'Bradaigh or Conor Cruise for a bit of light reading if that was the case.

I didn't know until I read that, that they had a period of nearly 20 years where they were even more right than the blue shirts and wanted to have a state based on some kind of Vatican Portuguese dictator model
Don't tell Francie

The party began to advocate a corporatist social policy inspired by the Papal Encyclicals of Pope Pius XI, with the aim of creating a Catholic state, and opposed parliamentary democracy, advocating its replacement with a form of government akin to Portugal's Estado Novo, but rejected fascism as they considered a fascist state to be too secular and centralized.

Fann Linn

jmcc wrote: »

Actual judges.

Regards...jmcc

Correct.
For any other occupation or profession you would imagine that would be the 'no brainer'. For FG however being Bruton's buddy would appear to TRUMP that!!

Proud of that one, started doing cryptics during lock down.

blanch152

Fann Linn wrote: »

That wasn't the question. I think Blanch asked what did SF ever do for the state, or words to that effect. And I just said, they formed it. I didn't think SK was looking for a history of SF and its splits, I would have pointed him/her in the direction of O'Bradaigh or Conor Cruise for a bit of light reading if that was the case.

But they didn't. They were a splinter in 1970, they don't trace their lineage back to the formation of the State.

Since 1970, there hasn't been a single positive thing done by Sinn Fein other than stop killing people, which is hardly something to claim credit for.

Triangle

Fann Linn wrote: »

As in how more experienced judges were over looked for starters.

Even Alan Kelly admitted (in the Dail today when MM said it to him) that the judiciary committee put forward one name for appointments - this is standard procedure.
You're looking for scandal where there is none


Edit: in fact the way judges are nominated by the judiciary was one of the big changes that the minister in the last Dail tried to get through but was blocked left, right and center.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

But they didn't. They were a splinter in 1970, they don't trace their lineage back to the formation of the State.

Since 1970, there hasn't been a single positive thing done by Sinn Fein other than stop killing people, which is hardly something to claim credit for.

It was a split, not a 'splinter' group.
The party split in half. When one half stick to the original principles - the proposed ignoring of which, split the party - I think the half sticking to the original has the legitimacy to call itself that.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Can't see Varadkar going any time soon. They can't dump him after putting their collective necks on the line backing him. They'll (FF/FG/Greens) need brass it out. McEntee might get demoted but again it's too much for them and too late. McEntee might get the bull**** martyr Frances Fitzgerald treatment, she did nothing wrong* but had to go because the opposition bullied her out etc. etc.
Government will trundle along hoping Brexit throws up enough dust.
Varadkar's days are certainly numbered. He's a dead man walking IMO. When he goes I hope the low brow Trump bitter snipes go too.

*disclaimer: she did.

What has McEntee done wrong? I posted the relevant extracts from the legislation days ago, and not a single poster has pointed to where she broke the rules or whether different rules apply.

It seems to me that those criticising McEntee on here are sheepishly following the lead of politicians shouting on the airwaves, without applying a critical eye to the relevant legislation, rules and regulations and pointing to any misdeed. I could be wrong on this, but perhaps you or one of the others will point me in the direction of the broken law, broken protocol or broken procedure, with relevant links.