Catherine Corless - Meaning of Life

Cluedo Monopoly

I recommend people watching Catherine Corless on the Meaning of Life show on RTE. She is the Galway historian who uncovered 796 children buried in a septic tank at the Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home. She has interesting thoughts on the Roman catholic church and how they tried to block her at every opportunity. And still do.

I hope the commission of investigation do a good job of uncovering the truth.

Amazing woman.

1990sman

hahaha

the bots are out

its been established already that it certainly was not a septic tank, as the suitable narrative suggests, its been documented that no piping was going to or from the concrete makeshift sarcophagus in order to make it a so called septic tank.

those poor babies would have died anywhere and im sure they were minded as best as possible and prayed for after their passing.

the nuns had already left when the local council was building a new estate and even the workmen who discovered the remains had the decency and dignity to offer their humble prayers for the human remains. and they were then moved to where they were since discovered.

its surprising mrs corless didnt ask the older people around said town for the actual history and chain of events. she showed an abject lack of faith in standard irish peope in her easy campaign of self-loathing and attacks on easy targets.

the nuns had left and the home was closed before the estate was being built on the old burial ground.

its too easy and fashionable to attack the old chestnut but people should do their research first

historian? this is her only work in that regard, and its massively unfounded and under-researched.

i really felt for this lady, she was well spoken and gracious, however, i feel that she deeply needs the guidance she seeks from the one place she denys.

the popular train of catholic bashing is supported from so many circles, its an open goal with little palpable resistance however the so point scored is atually a pyrrhic victory.

now, obviously babies dying is always sad (how many shouters now were pro abortion and didnt even allow pain relief) but marrying a tragedy to a political agenda is a prostitution of the instigators morals and it says even less for the people who blindly support it.

vicwatson

Oh FFS

1990sman

got a problem buddy?

come to tuam and do your own research.

ancapailldorcha

1990sman wrote: »

marrying a tragedy to a political agenda is a prostitution of the instigators morals and it says even less for the people who blindly support it.

This is literally what you're doing though for different reasons. You're trying to defend the abominable atrocity committed by the Catholic Church for some unfathomable reason here.

gozunda

1990sman wrote: »

hahahathe bots are outits been established already that it certainly was not a septic tank, as the suitable narrative suggests, its been documented that no piping was going to or from the concrete makeshift sarcophagus in order to make it a so called septic tank.those poor babies would have died anywhere and im sure they were minded as best as possible and prayed for after their passing.the nuns had already left when the local council was building a new estate and even the workmen who discovered the remains had the decency and dignity to offer their humble prayers for the human remains. and they were then moved to where they were since discovered.its surprising mrs corless didnt ask the older people around said town for the actual history and chain of events. she showed an abject lack of faith in standard irish peope in her easy campaign of self-loathing and attacks on easy targets.the nuns had left and the home was closed before the estate was being built on the old burial ground.its too easy and fashionable to attack the old chestnut but people should do their research first. historian? this is her only work in that regard, and its massively unfounded and under-researched. i really felt for this lady, she was well spoken and gracious, however, i feel that she deeply needs the guidance she seeks from the one place she denys.the popular train of catholic bashing is supported from so many circles, its an open goal with little palpable resistance however the so point scored is atually a pyrrhic victory. now, obviously babies dying is always sad (how many shouters now were pro abortion and didnt even allow pain relief) but marrying a tragedy to a political agenda is a prostitution of the instigators morals and it says even less for the people who blindly support it.

Tbh what you've written simply comes across as twisted and bitter. A lot makes no sense at all tbh but the bit in bold is so odd as to frankly defy explanation. Who exactly are 'pro abortion' and don't allow 'pain relief'?

But more to the point what the fek has any of that got to do with the very high death rates of children and babies born and who died in that institution? Unless you are suggesting that these children's birth and deaths was some kind of birth control by the religious order in question? As for the"prostitution of the instigators morals" - Id say that's more likely self reflection of your own comment tbf.

Ash.J.Williams

1990sman wrote: »

hahaha

the bots are out

its been established already that it certainly was not a septic tank, as the suitable narrative suggests, its been documented that no piping was going to or from the concrete makeshift sarcophagus in order to make it a so called septic tank.

those poor babies would have died anywhere and im sure they were minded as best as possible and prayed for after their passing.

the nuns had already left when the local council was building a new estate and even the workmen who discovered the remains had the decency and dignity to offer their humble prayers for the human remains. and they were then moved to where they were since discovered.

its surprising mrs corless didnt ask the older people around said town for the actual history and chain of events. she showed an abject lack of faith in standard irish peope in her easy campaign of self-loathing and attacks on easy targets.

the nuns had left and the home was closed before the estate was being built on the old burial ground.

its too easy and fashionable to attack the old chestnut but people should do their research first

historian? this is her only work in that regard, and its massively unfounded and under-researched.

i really felt for this lady, she was well spoken and gracious, however, i feel that she deeply needs the guidance she seeks from the one place she denys.

the popular train of catholic bashing is supported from so many circles, its an open goal with little palpable resistance however the so point scored is atually a pyrrhic victory.

now, obviously babies dying is always sad (how many shouters now were pro abortion and didnt even allow pain relief) but marrying a tragedy to a political agenda is a prostitution of the instigators morals and it says even less for the people who blindly support it.

thoughts and prayers eh

Abel Ruiz

1990sman wrote: »

those poor babies would have died anywhere and im sure they were minded as best as possible and prayed for after their passing.

Are you sure though?
Where is your evidence for this?
And the prayers helped!

Cluedo Monopoly

Watched it again this morning. It's a very good interview. She comes across very well as always.

Zebra3

1990sman wrote: »

hahaha

the bots are out

Very true.

completedit

She seems like a good person and someone determined to uncover the truth and bring justice, but it's not like it was an extermination camp.

I really loved the end of the interview; it was kind of awkward because Joe pushed it to make her appearance at the gates of heaven involve the spirits of those she has fought justice for but I loved how she said 'it would be nice' if they thanked her. It was very real and very human. It would have been so trite if she had of said 'they have no need to say anything'. A very genuine and very introspective person.

Graces7

completedit wrote: »

She seems like a good person and someone determined to uncover the truth and bring justice, but it's not like it was an extermination camp.

I really loved the end of the interview; it was kind of awkward because Joe pushed it to make her appearance at the gates of heaven involve the spirits of those she has fought justice for but I loved how she said 'it would be nice' if they thanked her. It was very real and very human. It would have been so trite if she had of said 'they have no need to say anything'. A very genuine and very introspective person.

actually with the sheer numbers of babies remains found and their bodies dumped wherever they could find room with no ceremony and no shrouds or any other covering..That is a fair description …..

jmayo

1990sman wrote: »

hahaha

the bots are out

its been established already that it certainly was not a septic tank, as the suitable narrative suggests, its been documented that no piping was going to or from the concrete makeshift sarcophagus in order to make it a so called septic tank.

Ah so it was alright that they were fooked into a concrete hole in the ground since it wasn't a septic tank. :rolleyes:

1990sman wrote: »

those poor babies would have died anywhere and im sure they were minded as best as possible and prayed for after their passing.

Well I suppose if you half starve a child or baby then yes there is good chance they would have died alright.
And prayers definitely do make up for being treated as subhuman while they were alive. :rolleyes:

Maybe the likes of the guards in the concentration camps did a bit of praying.
No coincidence the worst Nazis were catholics.

1990sman wrote: »

the nuns had already left when the local council was building a new estate and even the workmen who discovered the remains had the decency and dignity to offer their humble prayers for the human remains. and they were then moved to where they were since discovered.

So they were never in a graveyard then, or it wasn't much of a graveyard since it was being dug up for housing ?
They were never given a decent burial bar fooked out of one hole into another I guess.

Ah but sure weren't they prayed for.
That's all that matters,

1990sman wrote: »

its surprising mrs corless didnt ask the older people around said town for the actual history and chain of events. she showed an abject lack of faith in standard irish peope in her easy campaign of self-loathing and attacks on easy targets.

the nuns had left and the home was closed before the estate was being built on the old burial ground.

its too easy and fashionable to attack the old chestnut but people should do their research first

historian? this is her only work in that regard, and its massively unfounded and under-researched.

i really felt for this lady, she was well spoken and gracious, however, i feel that she deeply needs the guidance she seeks from the one place she denys.

the popular train of catholic bashing is supported from so many circles, its an open goal with little palpable resistance however the so point scored is atually a pyrrhic victory.

now, obviously babies dying is always sad (how many shouters now were pro abortion and didnt even allow pain relief) but marrying a tragedy to a political agenda is a prostitution of the instigators morals and it says even less for the people who blindly support it.

Feck's sake one might even think you were that odious c*** Prone with your dislike of Corless and your snide remarks about her.

Yeah she should have asked the older people around town who turned a blind eye for generations to what was going on.

Yeah we should listen to the catholic church and it's sycophant lickspittles about caring for babies and little children since after all they have shown
how much they really cared for children in the homes they ran and the peados they moved from parish to parish.

Graces7

jmayo wrote: »

Ah so it was alright that they were fooked into a concrete hole in the ground since it wasn't a septic tank. :rolleyes:

Actually an unused septic tank was also found later. The babies bones were " compacted, ie they had been thrown down into the tank atop the existing corpses, naked.

When I first came to Ireland, just before the very first scandals broke I was commissioned ( monastic historian) to write a book on the Irish Catholic Church at the start of the new millenium,< I had access to much material etc. Tuam haunts me. I was sick three days when it hit the news

The full report of the Commission was delayed because of covid but thoughtit was this month? Covering most ot the Mother an Baby bomes.

It will make terrible reading and some aspects have but recently come to light We knew about the babies being used for vaccination trials But the selling of remains for medical research is recently exposed

And it all started because one woman asked WHY are there death certs and no graves?

Oh the mercy Srs gave a former childrens home in Galway for a museum. They said they could do anything with the house BUT DO NOT TOUCH THE GARDEN

Catherine Corless visited there too and the same syndrome, deaths but no graves.

off to get some fresh air...

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.rte.ie/player/series/the-meaning-of-life-with-joe-duffy/SI0000007199?epguid=IH000391916

Link above. You cannot help but be moved by this woman's fight for the truth. What bothers her the most if how hard the church fought to suppress the truth and that they continue to do so. She puts it down to power corrupting the senior Vatican managers.

gozunda

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/player/series/the-meaning-of-life-with-joe-duffy/SI0000007199?epguid=IH000391916

Link above. You cannot help but be moved by this woman's fight for the truth. What bothers her the most if how hard the church fought to suppress the truth and that they continue to do so. She puts it down to power corrupting the senior Vatican managers.

I always thought that the whole horrendous debacle should have been properly investigated by a body such as the UN and not by authorities which potentially could be leaned on by the RC Church or others. The mass graves of these children certainly bear some sickening similarities to genocide in other countries. The children whose cause of death was declared as starvation are a case in point.

Zebra3

gozunda wrote: »

I always thought that the whole horrendous debacle should have been properly investigated by a body such as the UN and not by authorities which potentially could be leaned on by the RC Church or others. The mass graves of these children certainly bear some sickening similarities to genocide in other countries. Children whose cause of death was declared as starvation are a case in point.

But sure they would've died anyway. :rolleyes:

Graces7

gozunda wrote: »

I always thought that the whole horrendous debacle should have been properly investigated by a body such as the UN and not by authorities which potentially could be leaned on by the RC Church or others. The mass graves of these children certainly bear some sickening similarities to genocide in other countries. The children whose cause of death was declared as starvation are a case in point.

Be assured the investigation is thorough and will shock, a nd not by folk influenced by the church.
They have delayed publishing several times as the sheer weight of evidence that keeps coming in

And be sure that the church does not, thankfully, have any real power now.

And yes, it will include reports of murders. That has already been decided

The focus now will be on exhuming the remains, testing DNA so that the families involved can get some kind of closure.

Zappone ( who was CHildrens MInister) has fought steadfastly for this. And will not be gainsaid) The whole area ( and of course the local Council was heavily involved, even paying £5 for each "burial" which is probably the only reason we have the death certs)
has been scanned with ground penetrating radar, and babies found in many places.Including another tank they built a road over.

All I have written is easily verified /available online now if you can spare a few hours.With a stiff drink! There are some examples of how local folk, so under the thumb of the church and dependent for eg employment, did what they could, Tunnels were made to hide the newly dead babies, so they could later bury them.

Yes it is a form of genocide but not in the usually accepted sense as there were Irish babies. But they were born out of wedlock....evidence of sin . A race apart.

It was not only Tuam. Bessborough, Sean Ross Abbey etc etc etc

But be assured that this investigation has been thorough and will have been utterly painful to compile .

These times are gone. Thankfully. Most of the perpetrators are long gone. So is the overweening power of the church.

JP Liz V1

Why did I think she was a nun or ex nun

morebabies

jmayo wrote: »

Ah so it was alright that they were fooked into a concrete hole in the ground since it wasn't a septic tank. :rolleyes:



Well I suppose if you half starve a child or baby then yes there is good chance they would have died alright.
And prayers definitely do make up for being treated as subhuman while they were alive. :rolleyes:

Maybe the likes of the guards in the concentration camps did a bit of praying.
No coincidence the worst Nazis were catholics.



So they were never in a graveyard then, or it wasn't much of a graveyard since it was being dug up for housing ?
They were never given a decent burial bar fooked out of one hole into another I guess.

Ah but sure weren't they prayed for.
That's all that matters,



Feck's sake one might even think you were that odious c*** Prone with your dislike of Corless and your snide remarks about her.

Yeah she should have asked the older people around town who turned a blind eye for generations to what was going on.

Yeah we should listen to the catholic church and it's sycophant lickspittles about caring for babies and little children since after all they have shown
how much they really cared for children in the homes they ran and the peados they moved from parish to parish.

Just to gain perspective... Nothing is ever as black and white as that.

My granny had a baby at age 16, her parents were too poor and drunk to take care of her and her baby so she was sent to Tuam and lived there between 1937-1941.

Unlike the prevailing narrative, she said the nuns took great care of her and her baby, they allowed her to stay for 4 years and when her parents again refused to take her back home with her now 4 year old daughter, the nuns set up the child's Foster care in such a way that mother and daughter could remain in touch.

My granny was not particularly religious so had no reason to defend the Church, but always praised those nuns and said they did the best with what they had. She was alive when Catherine Corless first broke her big news story, and said she never witnessed any ill treatment of mothers or their children during her 4 years there. If they hadn't taken her in, she would have been out on the streets, hungry, homeless and pregnant.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/2f492-minister-ogorman-to-publish-commission-of-investigation-mother-and-baby-homes-and-certain-related-matters-records-bill-2020/

The Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Roderic O’Gorman TD, has today received Government approval for the text of the Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records Bill 2020.

The Bill deals with the arrangements for the transfer and management of the records of the Commission of investigation upon its dissolution. These records include databases and related information on the mothers and children who were resident in the main mother and baby homes, which have been compiled by the Commission of Investigation in the course of its work.

At its meeting today, Government approved the text of the Bill which will provide for the safeguarding and protection of these valuable records.

Good news that the government are safeguarding the records. There were too many instances where records were hidden or destroyed in the past when investigating child abuse.

completedit

Phishnet wrote: »

Power corrupts, absolute power, corrupts absolutely. Where there is good you will find evil.

I honestly think people lose sight of this when discussing the catholic church. I'm not taking any opinion on the rights or wrong of the Bible, whether god exists, whether Jesus was a prophet, who knows. But so much of the debate that centers around the catholic church acts as if the church in and of itself is the root of its evil.

Cluedo Monopoly

completedit wrote: »

I honestly think people lose sight of this when discussing the catholic church. I'm not taking any opinion on the rights or wrong of the Bible, whether god exists, whether Jesus was a prophet, who knows. But so much of the debate that centers around the catholic church acts as if the church in and of itself is the root of its evil.

Fine but why does it continue to cover up their wrongdoings. Corless herself said they blocked her at every opportunity and continue to do so. It shows zero transparency. Hiding behind canon law. The survivors still want answers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr0_94zveh0

gozunda

morebabies wrote: »

Just to gain perspective... Nothing is ever as black and white as that.

My granny had a baby at age 16, her parents were too poor and drunk to take care of her and her baby so she was sent to Tuam and lived there between 1937-1941.

Unlike the prevailing narrative, she said the nuns took great care of her and her baby, they allowed her to stay for 4 years and when her parents again refused to take her back home with her now 4 year old daughter, the nuns set up the child's Foster care in such a way that mother and daughter could remain in touch.

My granny was not particularly religious so had no reason to defend the Church, but always praised those nuns and said they did the best with what they had. She was alive when Catherine Corless first broke her big news story, and said she never witnessed any ill treatment of mothers or their children during her 4 years there. If they hadn't taken her in, she would have been out on the streets, hungry, homeless and pregnant.

The reports and cases like the deaths and maltreatment of infants from starvation etc are certainly not unique to the work of Catherine Corless. There are thousands of individual testimonies from women and others testifying to this. If your grandmother was lucky to be not amongst those who were seen as wortless sinners who had to repent and who had their babies taken away - then she was indeed fortunate amongst so many

Graces7

gozunda wrote: »

The reports and cases like the deaths and maltreatment of infants from starvation etc are certainly are certainly not unique to the work of Catherine Corless. There are thousands of individual testimonies from women and others testifying to this. If your grandmother was lucky to be not amongst those who were seen as wortless sinners who had to repent and who had their babies taken away - then she was indeed fortunate amongst so many

I think the date has the answer? This was before it went bad. ?

Sometimes thing start well then? And depends also on the Superior.

And yes, good deeds in no way negates the evil of Tuam, No way; in fact it makes it worse as they knew how to act properly.

Tuam was 1925 - 1961 so that would fit.( 1937-41) Oh the report says " A number of the samples are likely to date from the 1950s" so that explains that. Although even before that clearly the babies were not buried with markers.

Noticed a mention of a Mother and baby home in Castlepollard Co Westmeath contains the remains of over 3.200 babies ( Article from the Irish Times called "q and a the Tuam babies and children who died" )

It must have been hard for that grandmother when the news came out but she was very very fortunate. Many places start off well then deteriorate.

And this was happening all over Ireland, not just Tuam. Before the scandal hit I visited Sean Ross Abbey. Just a few Sisters left, and they fed me tea and Christmas cake.

I knew little about their work there and nothing about the graveyard. After Tuam a local man told the authorities where the babies were buried there.
They used ground penetrating radar but so far decided not to disturb the ground. It was a graveyard.

Not a sewage system.

One lady went to Bessborough to find her baby's grave to be shown it and told that there was one baby under her and 18 atop.

The whole thing went bad. So let us be glad for those who were treated well before that.


We shall see what the report says.

padd b1975

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Watched it again this morning. It's a very good interview. She comes across very well as always.

She comes across as a bit of a curtain twitcher in my opinion.

Very fond of the cameras and microphones too.

KevRossi

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Good news that the government are safeguarding the records. There were too many instances where records were hidden or destroyed in the past when investigating child abuse.

This thread here has a different twist on it, not sure which one is nearer the truth....

https://twitter.com/maeveorourke/status/1315984352279437313

Graces7

The issue above needs reading at least three times to understand it. Basically it is safeguarding sensitive information from "anybody" while leaving it available for those with a real right /need to access it.

Which is right and good. No one needs their private family life exposed.

Graces7

padd b1975 wrote: »

She comes across as a bit of a curtain twitcher in my opinion.

Very fond of the cameras and microphones too.

What an extraordinary and blinkered comment! Without this lady the atrocities at Tuam, and elsewhere, would have remained the dark secret the perpetrators intended them to be.

As a historian, it is her work to investigate and assess.

People have been declared saints for less. She braved the authorities many times to seek the truth,

Truth which will bring closure to many grieving families and ensure that this kind of abuse never happens again.

seligehgit

Graces7 wrote: »

What an extraordinary and blinkered comment! Without this lady the atrocities at Tuam, and elsewhere, would have remained the dark secret the perpetrators intended them to be.

As a historian, it is her work to investigate and assess.

People have been declared saints for less. She braved the authorities many times to seek the truth,

Truth which will bring closure to many grieving families and ensure that this kind of abuse never happens again.

Well said.

She's an extraordinary individual in the very best sense of the word.

We owe her a great debt.

Graces7

I was puzzled about this. it did not make sense.

So I sought out a contemporary of mine here in Ireland, ie in our late 70s.

Apparently pre-world war 2. all was well as the poster's granny experienced.

During the war, many American soldiers came to Eire on furlough, for time away from the fighting. And as a direct result , there was a huge and overwhelming rise in illegitimate babies.

The Homes in turn got totally overstretched and changed. Attitudes hardened at a time of great hardship and stress. .

So yes, it is as black and white as it seems. White prewar then black thereafter

The war changed the whole of society; food shortages, social changes. family deaths .. I remember the years after the war well; we were sent to the shops not for groceries, but for "the rations".

They were dark and difficult years and attitudes and acts became harder and less humane . It changed everything, including the Homes.

morebabies wrote: »

Just to gain perspective... Nothing is ever as black and white as that.

My granny had a baby at age 16, her parents were too poor and drunk to take care of her and her baby so she was sent to Tuam and lived there between 1937-1941.

Unlike the prevailing narrative, she said the nuns took great care of her and her baby, they allowed her to stay for 4 years and when her parents again refused to take her back home with her now 4 year old daughter, the nuns set up the child's Foster care in such a way that mother and daughter could remain in touch.

My granny was not particularly religious so had no reason to defend the Church, but always praised those nuns and said they did the best with what they had. She was alive when Catherine Corless first broke her big news story, and said she never witnessed any ill treatment of mothers or their children during her 4 years there. If they hadn't taken her in, she would have been out on the streets, hungry, homeless and pregnant.