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Registration of classic vehicles after Brexit

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    #242
    preacherman
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭preacherman


    Car99 wrote: »
    You'll have to run the gauntlet, fight your case and take your chances because sure as fcuk no one will be a le to answer that until you try. My money is on you'll be paying everything VAT, VRT and import duty.

    Thanks, I think I'll let someone else run that gauntlet first :)


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    #243
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    preacherman wrote: »
    Thanks, I think I'll let someone else run that gauntlet first :)

    My brother brought in a Hymer not long ago from Netherlands: far easier than UK. VRT on its estimated value (not the invoice mind).

    He did look in the UK before taking the plunge.

    UK will be Customs, VRT , VAT,. Not worth it.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #244
    preacherman
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭preacherman


    galwaytt wrote: »
    My brother brought in a Hymer not long ago from Netherlands: far easier than UK. VRT on its estimated value (not the invoice mind).

    He did look in the UK before taking the plunge.

    UK will be Customs, VRT , VAT,. Not worth it.

    Thanks, I’m watching vans in the Eu too but Covid has effected that too with having to quarantine etc.


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    #245
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    preacherman wrote: »
    Hi all,
    built in Germany originally and at some point in it's life ended up in the UK.

    What I can't work out is that if the van was originally manufactured and used in Germany, then exported to UK as a used vehicle what the vat and customs implications are. Are they the same?

    Used German manufactured camper van imported from UK then imported to Ireland - 10% duty + VAT@23%

    The only way you can get "Returned Good Relief" (saving the 10% duty bit) is if the used vehicle is re-imported to the EU (e.g. Ireland) from the UK within 3 years of export (the important date is the date of export of the vehicle from the EU to the UK and not the date of registration of the vehicle in the UK)

    Paperwork requirements for RGR are outlined HERE

    As far as the VAT goes: In very specific circumstances, relief may also apply where the goods are re-imported into the EU by the same person that originally exported the goods out of the EU. (e.g. fat chance). So expect to pay VAT regardless.


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    #246
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    preacherman wrote: »
    Thanks, I’m watching vans in the Eu too but Covid has effected that too with having to quarantine etc.

    He had it shipped from Northern Holland direct to Cork: all in €1200.

    Didn't miss a day at work.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #247
    Casati
    Registered Users Posts: 3,034 ✭✭✭Casati


    macplaxton wrote: »
    Used German manufactured camper van imported from UK then imported to Ireland - 10% duty + VAT@23%

    The only way you can get "Returned Good Relief" (saving the 10% duty bit) is if the used vehicle is re-imported to the EU (e.g. Ireland) from the UK within 3 years of export (the important date is the date of export of the vehicle from the EU to the UK and not the date of registration of the vehicle in the UK)

    Paperwork requirements for RGR are outlined HERE

    As far as the VAT goes: In very specific circumstances, relief may also apply where the goods are re-imported into the EU by the same person that originally exported the goods out of the EU. (e.g. fat chance). So expect to pay VAT regardless.

    I never heard of that returned good relief before. Does that mean that any vehicle also less than three years old and originally manufactured in the EU but sold new in U.K. can be exported to Ireland now duty free?


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    #248
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Casati wrote: »
    I never heard of that returned good relief before. Does that mean that any vehicle also less than three years old and originally manufactured in the EU but sold new in U.K. can be exported to Ireland now duty free?

    not sure how you reached that conclusion. It seems to be the opposite to what was being said in the post you quoted.


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    #249
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    Casati wrote: »
    I never heard of that returned good relief before. Does that mean that any vehicle also less than three years old and originally manufactured in the EU but sold new in U.K. can be exported to Ireland now duty free?

    Sold new in the uk pre Jan 31 2020 was sold in the UK therefore sold in the EU . It's a minefield that would take someone with deep pockets to fight their case in a court. The cost of fighting would outweigh the imports costs in most cases so I guess we will never know.


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    #250
    Casati
    Registered Users Posts: 3,034 ✭✭✭Casati


    Car99 wrote: »
    Sold new in the uk pre Jan 31 2020 was sold in the UK therefore sold in the EU . It's a minefield that would take someone with deep pockets to fight their case in a court. The cost of fighting would outweigh the imports costs in most cases so I guess we will never know.

    Why would you have to fight a case in court?


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    #251
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Casati wrote: »
    Why would you have to fight a case in court?

    because you are wanting a ruling imposed by our Government and the EU changed.


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    #252
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    The post quoted has a link to the Revenue page of the paperwork requirements for Returned Goods Relief.

    Got the required paperwork that qualifies the goods for the relief? No problem.


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    #253
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    Casati wrote: »
    Does that mean that any vehicle also less than three years old and originally manufactured in the EU but sold new in U.K. can be exported to Ireland now duty free?

    It doesn't have to be less than 3 years old in absolute age. It doesn't have to be sold new.

    What the conditions outline is when it moved out of the EU and back into the EU, the time spent outside the EU cannot be more than 3 years.

    To prove the time spent outside the EU is less than 3 years, a paperwork trail is required by Revenue.

    I've heard of it in the example of Marks & Spencer "Percy Pigs". They are "Fred Ferkel" and are made and packaged in Germany. They come into GB for distribution into M&S shops. They stopped selling them in NI / Ireland as they really hadn't got their paperwork sorted out, but providing they weren't messing with the goods, they could with the right paperwork trail legitimately re-import them into the EU without tariffs.

    The same rules apply to vehicles. As long as they're aren't messed with, they can come back into the EU tariff-free, but there is also a time limit to this relief to consider.
    The TCA provides that where products originating in one party are exported to a third country, then returns to the original party can retain their origin status as long as the returned products are the same as those exported and have not undergone any operation other that what was necessary to preserve it in good condition.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/special-reports/brexit-next-steps/brexit-the-disappearance-of-percy-pig-is-a-feature-not-a-bug-1.4488589

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0115/1189875-solution-to-percy-pigs-tariffs-problem-put-forward/

    If a ten year old car left the EU and came back in when it was twelve, then that could potentionally qualify if you have the Revenue required paperwork. No proof, no relief.


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    #254
    Casati
    Registered Users Posts: 3,034 ✭✭✭Casati


    macplaxton wrote: »
    It doesn't have to be less than 3 years old in absolute age. It doesn't have to be sold new.

    What the conditions outline is when it moved out of the EU and back into the EU, the time spent outside the EU cannot be more than 3 years.

    To prove the time spent outside the EU is less than 3 years, a paperwork trail is required by Revenue.

    I've heard of it in the example of Marks & Spencer "Percy Pigs". They are "Fred Ferkel" and are made and packaged in Germany. They come into GB for distribution into M&S shops. They stopped selling them in NI / Ireland as they really hadn't got their paperwork sorted out, but providing they weren't messing with the goods, they could with the right paperwork trail legitimately re-import them into the EU without tariffs.

    The same rules apply to vehicles. As long as they're aren't messed with, they can come back into the EU tariff-free, but there is also a time limit to this relief to consider.



    https://www.irishtimes.com/special-reports/brexit-next-steps/brexit-the-disappearance-of-percy-pig-is-a-feature-not-a-bug-1.4488589

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0115/1189875-solution-to-percy-pigs-tariffs-problem-put-forward/

    If a ten year old car left the EU and came back in when it was twelve, then that could potentionally qualify if you have the Revenue required paperwork. No proof, no relief.

    V interesting- I heard of the Percy Pig issue but not it’s relevance for vehicles. Looks v clear cut.


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    #255
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    Casati wrote: »
    V interesting- I heard of the Percy Pig issue but not it’s relevance for vehicles. Looks v clear cut.


    Just in case the Revenue PDF link was missed because it was short-linked on the previous page. Paperwork requirements for RGR are outlined:

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/documents/returned-goods-relief-and-movement-of-vehicles.pdf

    I would be cautious and make sure all of the required documentary proof is to hand for Revenue.


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