Tesla Model 3 - V3.0

One Question

Excellent! ��

blue chuzzle

does anyone know if FSD tech will make its way to us mere mortals with standard HW3 Autopilot?

i realised i was assuming that it would be a new platform so we would get the benefit for the set of features available to autopilot users when it gets upgraded.

for example, autopiloting down a city street but only following the road and not reacting to traffic lights or stop signs as it does today, but with all the extra cleverness in avoiding obstacles and that.

i see in the early videos, FSD appears to jump to normal autopilot mode on the motorway and then back to new super FSD mode on city streets.

EVGuy

I suspect you might see some features added to "basic AP", e.g. stopping at stops/red lights that are safety related when FSD is more feature-rich.

The obstacle avoidance too, as that is also a safety feature.

The only thing I think they would need to keep separate are turns and full navigation.

Once they have city street FSD working well, motorways should be realatively easy.

It could of course just be that the "dev rendering" is only enabled on city streets but it could still be in use/learning on motorways.

Step by step getting specific things working well seems sensible versus enabling everything at once too.

redcup342

EVGuy wrote: »

I suspect you might see some features added to "basic AP", e.g. stopping at stops/red lights that are safety related when FSD is more feature-rich.

The obstacle avoidance too, as that is also a safety feature.

The only thing I think they would need to keep separate are turns and full navigation.

Once they have city street FSD working well, motorways should be realatively easy.

It could of course just be that the "dev rendering" is only enabled on city streets but it could still be in use/learning on motorways.

Step by step getting specific things working well seems sensible versus enabling everything at once too.

IMO FSD is never going to work relying just on cameras.

If it's starts raining (even misting) you'll get an annoying warning message saying "camera is blind"

Anyone have any tips for using some sort of hydrophobic cleaner for the camera ? the back camera becomes completely obscured at times just from water (never had this issue on other cars and had it now on two Model 3s)

FSD will probably never work as proper hands free sit in the back seat driving with the limited power of the size of a computer they can fit in a car, I think the Data Centre will be the best chance for proper FSD, the car will have the hardware, sensors, limited on board computer and the data centre will do the heavy number crunching.

copeyhagen

folks, i have the premium connectivity, but cancelled my spotify premium as i dont sue it, apart from in the car. i used to use the tesla account in the model S and it worked eprfectly, but i cant get it working in the 3.

i click 'use tesla account' and it just comes back saying unable to connect. i tried changing the language on the display and rebooting but no change.

should i be able to use the tesla account on the 3 like i could on the s even?!!

Banana Republic 1

Kramer wrote: »

Is anyone who took delivery of a 202 reg Model 3 not pissed off that just a few months later, the price dropped almost €1k (SR+, vat reduction) & the car will now include a heat pump, better specs, glass etc.?

When it comes to selling on, an early 202 Model 3 will be worth far less than a later 202 Model 3, which will have more range etc.

Elon pinched pennies by removing mats, cables, dimming door mirrors etc. already & has now seriously devalued cars, just a few months old.
He has effectively taken money from your pockets :eek:.

If people didn't buy these July cars at full price, he wouldn't be able to push out these higher spec models.

Two solutions to right this wrong.

1. Give early 202 owners free supercharging or make some gesture
2. Immediately push up the price of the new, upgraded model .

.............ducks & waits to be attacked by prospective Model 3 purchasers...... :D:D.

How much is a model 3 now, do you get a charger included or is that extra. I was asking about the ID3 recently and you don’t get much as standard, typical Irish dealer fast one move perhaps.

AndyBoBandy

copeyhagen wrote: »

folks, i have the premium connectivity, but cancelled my spotify premium as i dont sue it, apart from in the car. i used to use the tesla account in the model S and it worked eprfectly, but i cant get it working in the 3.

i click 'use tesla account' and it just comes back saying unable to connect. i tried changing the language on the display and rebooting but no change.

should i be able to use the tesla account on the 3 like i could on the s even?!!

Yes you should, I use it all the time, and just use teh Tesla account (I've never had a personal spotify account)

did you previously use your own account in the Model 3? if there some sort of cache that needs to be cleared after logging out??

AndyBoBandy

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

How much is a model 3 now, do you get a charger included or is that extra. I was asking about the ID3 recently and you don’t get much as standard, typical Irish dealer fast one move perhaps.

Every Model 3 has an AC charger built into it (as does every EV). The box at your home is simply a fancy plug that delivers power to the cars onboard AC charger...

But in terms of a Wall Connecter for your home (which is essentially a fancy socket/lead), you don't get that with the car, however you do get a UMC (Granny Cable) with the car which allows you to slowly charge the car from a 3 pin socket, at a rate of about 1-2kWh. See below video to show this in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqgGCuxWVbc

The Tesla Wall Connector (€530), or any other home charge unit (Zappi, EO etc...) allows the car to charge at 7.2kWh.



If you purchase a 32 amp (blue) industrial plug from Tesla (€49 from Tesla), you can use that with the UMC you get with the car to charge at a faster rate, closer to what a dedicated Wall connector does, but for this, you'd need a 32 amp socket installed at the location you want to charge at. See below video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwUin9E0l_E

Banana Republic 1

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Every Model 3 has an AC charger built into it (as does every EV). The box at your home is simply a fancy plug that delivers power to the cars onboard AC charger...

But in terms of a Wall Connecter for your home (which is essentially a fancy socket/lead, you dont get that with the car, however you do get a UMC (Granny Cable) with the car which allows you to slowly charge the car from a 3 pin socket, at a rate of about 1-2kWh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqgGCuxWVbc

The Tesla Wall Connector (€530), or any other home charge unit (Zappi, EO etc...) allows teh car to charge at 7.2kWh.

If you purchase a 32 amp (blue) industrial plug from Tesla (around €40), you can use that with the UMC you get with the car to charge at a faster rate, closer to what a dedicated Wall connector does, but for this, you'd need a 32 amp socket installed at the location you want to charge at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwUin9E0l_E

Ok thanks for the info. I had in my head the came with an optional super fast station, not as standard like.

redcup342

Deleted User wrote: »

FSD will probably never work as proper hands free sit in the back seat driving with the limited power of the size of a computer they can fit in a car, I think the Data Centre will be the best chance for proper FSD, the car will have the hardware, sensors, limited on board computer and the data centre will do the heavy number crunching.

Not feasible with the amount of data required to transmit forward and back.

Latency is way too high as well and 4G / 5G is not reliable enough to have the 100% uptime required for data steaming from the car and realtime feedback

Also how does it work with Network Roaming, you lose signal crossing any country border in the EU for a few minutes in the Model 3 (currently they all use a Dutch Sim Card - I would guess it's with Deutsche Telekom)

AndyBoBandy

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Ok thanks for the info. I had in my head the came with an optional super fast station, not as standard like.

No AC is Superfast, as the fastest the Model 3 can charge at on AC is 11kWh as you are limited by the cars onboard charger, however most homes in Ireland being single phase, the fastest you'll get at home would be 7.2kW

Anything faster than 11kWh and you'll need to Fast (DC) charge. And no homes would have DC charging (unless you are mega rich)

redcup342

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

No AC is Superfast, as the fastest the Model 3 can charge at on AC is 11kWh as you are limited by the cars onboard charger, however most homes in Ireland being single phase, the fastest you'll get at home would be 7.2kW

Anything faster than 11kWh and you'll need to Fast (DC) charge. And no homes would have DC charging (unless you are mega rich)

11kWh is the sweet spot IMO until you start getting in the 90-100kWh battery sizes with heavy power consumption)

It then possibly becomes a bit difficult if you are driving close to the kilometers you can reclaim with an overnight charge.

Depends on your usage pattern really

Banana Republic 1

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

No AC is Superfast, as the fastest the Model 3 can charge at on AC is 11kWh as you are limited by the cars onboard charger, however most homes in Ireland being single phase, the fastest you'll get at home would be 7.2kW

Anything faster than 11kWh and you'll need to Fast (DC) charge. And no homes would have DC charging (unless you are mega rich)

I do have three phases my workshop 100 meter from house. Could one wangle a grant for a DC station I wonder or could a DC station be written of as a business exp, cynically speaking

AndyBoBandy

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

I do have three phases my workshop 100 meter from house. Could one wangle a grant for a DC station I wonder or could a DC station be written of as a business exp, cynically speaking

I believe they (DC Chargers) can be got for around €10,000, but why would you want it? DC charging will only quicken any battery degradation you might see... (Slow AC charging is best for battery longevity). A DC charger will also be limited by the supply to your workshop, so you might still only get 11kWh on DC

if you have 3 phase, you can install a Wall Connector there and charge the car at 11kWh on AC, meaning empty to full* in an SR+ of about 4.5 hours... would you really need to charge the car any faster?

*empty to full charging isn't something you'd be doing so often anyway.... 20% - 80% would be far more realistic for day to day use, so in an SR+ at 7.2kWh (standard single phase supply), 20-80% would take around 4 hours..

EVGuy

redcup342 wrote: »

IMO FSD is never going to work relying just on cameras.

If it's starts raining (even misting) you'll get an annoying warning message saying "camera is blind"

Even misting? That's just not true; in *heavy* rain I usually get "bad weather detected" and "NoA temporarily unavailable", AP continues to drive along without issue.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

still only get 11kWh on DC

the car at 11kWh 7.2kWh .

Those are all kW power rates, not kWh, i.e. capacity.

/pedantic

AndyBoBandy

EVGuy wrote: »

Those are all kW power rates, not kWh, i.e. capacity.

/pedantic

Yeah, I will forever always get it wrong....

Surely theres an easy way to remember the battery has the little 'h', and charge rates/speed dont have the 'h'.

redcup342

EVGuy wrote: »

Even misting? That's just not true; in *heavy* rain I usually get "bad weather detected" and "NoA temporarily unavailable", AP continues to drive along without issue.

You mean adaptive cruise control (Tesla Call it Autopilot) that still works fine.

Navigate on Autopilot (i.e. FSD) doesn't work when the cameras are "blind"

EVGuy

Yes, maybe think of how long you get the power for out of the battery, i.e. it's how many hours if can supply the power for?

The power rates are "in the moment", i.e. how much you are getting right now, while it's turned on.

redcup342 wrote: »

You mean adaptive cruise control (Tesla Call it Autopilot) that still works fine.

Navigate on Autopilot (i.e. FSD) doesn't work when the cameras are "blind"

No, I don't. TACC is what they call it "Traffic Aware CC". I mean the full auto-steer and stopping at stop signs and red lights.

All you lose is the car's ability to change lane itself (initiated by indicator stalk) and its ability to take the motorway exit by itself, it still steers too. TACC on the other hand, does not, although it too now will stop at red lights/stop signs if you have FSD.

KCross

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

I do have three phases my workshop 100 meter from house. Could one wangle a grant for a DC station I wonder or could a DC station be written of as a business exp, cynically speaking

Yes.... read up on this....
https://www.seai.ie/business-and-public-sector/business-grants-and-supports/accelerated-capital-allowance/

Basically, if the unit you buy is on the approved list you can write the entire amount off against tax in year 1 instead of the usual 8yrs.

redcup342

EVGuy wrote: »

No, I don't. TACC is what they call it "Traffic Aware CC". I mean the full auto-steer and stopping at stop signs and red lights.

All you lose is the car's ability to change lane itself (initiated by indicator stalk) and its ability to take the motorway exit by itself, it still steers too. TACC on the other hand, does not, although it too now will stop at red lights/stop signs if you have FSD.

Doesn't stop/start on traffic lights with Basic Autopilot, that's only FSD.

Lane change only comes with Enhanced Autopilot, that doesn't work either with Cameras left/right fender cameras obscured (no longer possible to purchase)

Front camera is staying in Lane this is rarely obscured as its cleared by the Window Wipers.

LKSS/ACC/CMBS has been around on Hondas since 2008.

Not something particularly special to Tesla.

Point is the only thing that works in heavy rain/waterlogged roads is ACC (Basic Autopilot)

EVGuy

redcup342 wrote: »

Point is the only thing that works in heavy rain/waterlogged roads is ACC (Basic Autopilot)

The point is that "basic autopilot" is not just an advanced cruise control, it also includes auto-steer and on top of that, if you do have FSD, you don't lose all its extra features due to "some misting rain" either.

Tesla auto-steer is far more advanced than a 2008 (and many newer) ALKA.

redcup342

EVGuy wrote: »

The point is that "basic autopilot" is not just an advanced cruise control, it also includes auto-steer and on top of that, if you do have FSD, you don't lose all its extra features due to "some misting rain" either.

Tesla auto-steer is far more advanced than a 2008 (and many newer) ALKA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj73Q3lWvFM

I haven't really ever experienced an anchor being dropped for no apparent reason on any other vehicle I've driven.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+phantom+braking+shadow+site:www.reddit.com&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBDE864DE864&sxsrf=ALeKk02PVU8kR6oPcVmWYKLxMaTAk2WgXw:1604504054027&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-4Lixm-nsAhXIGuwKHd5FB0sQrQIoBHoECBkQBQ&biw=1536&bih=754

Maybe it works better in Ireland, over here in Germany Full Autopilot is complete trash.

As I said before, I bought a Model 3 mostly for the Charging Network, the Car is great but the Driver Assist features are awful and really don't use Autopilot in any form most of the time unless road conditions are perfect (even then you can get caught out by a shadow)

EVGuy

What version are you on? 36.xx was rather poor but 40.8 is good and I suspect when we get the newer code it will improve dramatically.

Kramer

redcup342 wrote: »

Maybe it works better in Ireland, over here in Germany Full Autopilot is complete trash.

Careful now, you'll upset all the Tesla fanboys .

How long have you had your Model 3? Did you luck out & get the new model with heat pump, electric boot, acoustic glass etc.?

redcup342

Kramer wrote: »

Careful now, you'll upset all the Tesla fanboys .

How long have you had your Model 3? Did you luck out & get the new model with heat pump, electric boot, acoustic glass etc.?

Have mine almost 4 months now (SR+) :pac:

So no did not

Totally happy with it though, did a Dusseldorf to Berlin trip last week and it was absolutely flawless with charging.

No chances it being so comfortable in any other EV (Non-Tesla) to do that length of a trip :pac:

The Cruise Control is sh1te though (you can call it whatever you want)

Kramer

redcup342 wrote: »

The Cruise Control is sh1te though

And the high beam assist (auto dimming headlights)
And the auto wipers...........
And the...........

:pac:.

Kramer

redcup342 wrote: »

did a Dusseldorf to Berlin trip last week and it was absolutely flawless with charging.

Can't deny they have the charging/charging infrastructure down alright. What's that trip, 600km? If there are Ionity installs along that route though, it'd be just as easy in any CCS car.

redcup342

Kramer wrote: »

Can't deny they have the charging/charging infrastructure down alright. What's that trip, 600km? If there are Ionity installs along that route though, it'd be just as easy in any CCS car.

Ionity is not all that, EnBW and Fastned are just a good if not better.

Have done long roadtrips in E-Tron/i-Pace/i3

You cannot just type in a destination in any of those and let it work out stops. Least stressfull is the i3, E-Tron and i-Pace had their range absolutely decimated when it started raining.

Also you need cards or start the charger with an App, Tesla you just plug in.

Kramer

redcup342 wrote: »

Ionity is not all that, EnBW and Fastned are just a good if not better.

Dude, we're in Ireland. We've got ECars .
3 or possibly 4, 75kW (x2), hubs :rolleyes:.

Ionity is the gold standard here (not counting Tesla SuCs, of course) .



That'd be grand in an E-Tron 50, stopping at 150kW Ionity multicharger sites.