Budget 2021 Opinions

stefanovich

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not supporting anyone being an arsehole to you, tbf- you're always unfailingly polite!

But nah, "macro is complex" does not handwave away "freebies for non contributors" in a system where:

a. That money comes from contributors
b. That money is spent chasing the same things contributors also want, causing huge issues for eg workers looking to get decent housing for fair price within their commute range
c. That money isn't being spent on things we all know need it- infrastructure, health, education

I propose to you that it *is* in fact that simple

A huge amount of money is spent on health. Way more per capita than most countries. The HSE just waste it so efficiently.

stefanovich

stefanovich wrote: »

A huge amount of money is spent on health. Way more per capita than most countries. The HSE just waste it so efficiently.

It's a simple breakdown, and yeah you can take any part of it and start the analysis as above, sure

But the headline facts are imo indisputable

paw patrol

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you will find, a larger percentage of your income, since you ve been indebted and renting, have in fact gone towards the 'rentier class' than the welfare class

and so what of it? I'm paying then for a service in my case the bank and I'll eventually own my home.



you have linked two unrelated things and tried to connect them.
I just don't get it tbh

stefanovich

paw patrol wrote: »

and so what of it? I'm paying then for a service in my case the bank and I'll eventually own my home.



you have linked two unrelated things and tried to connect them.
I just don't get it tbh

I do think we are paying more in interest than is fair though. Compare the cost of a mortgage here to the cost of a mortgage in Germany for instance...

Richard Hillman

I have been working the last 4 Christmas's and didn't get a bonus from any of my jobs. This Christmas I will likely be unemployed and I'll get a Christmas bonus. Go figure.

stefanovich

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I have been working the last 4 Christmas's and didn't get a bonus from any of my jobs. This Christmas I will likely be unemployed and I'll get a Christmas bonus. Go figure.

Only long term unemployed get the bonus I thought?

suicide_circus

stefanovich wrote: »

Only long term unemployed get the bonus I thought?

Yes they're certainly deserving of a reward

Wanderer78

suicide_circus wrote:

Yes they're certainly deserving of a reward

Again, is the issue with welfare our with working conditions?

Topgear on Dave

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Again, is the issue with welfare our with working conditions?

Iv had quite a few jobs over the last 25 years, the conditions have never been that bad.

stefanovich

stefanovich wrote: »

Only long term unemployed get the bonus I thought?

Unemployment Assistance and this year, people on PUP once they’ve be in receipt of it for 4 months.

Those on Unemployment Benefit don’t qualify. (Newly unemployed)

The_Brood

So those of us who remained working the entire time, keeping the coffers afloat with taxes, in some occupations denied a proper leave from work because of travel restrictions...get nothing in the budget and instead get told how we are the 'lucky ones'.

Why are we putting up with this?

Well, we have a democratically elected govt according to our political governance system who get to vote in a budget

All you can do is work out what parties try to buy votes with this type of budget and make sure to avoid giving them a vote in future.

I'd suggest if your options are SF/ff/fg as main parties then only one of those would be a safe bet, and everyone hates them when they were the main party in the last few govts

Maybe they just weren't given enough free reign, who knows

The Rooster

The_Brood wrote: »

So those of us who remained working the entire time, keeping the coffers afloat with taxes, in some occupations denied a proper leave from work because of travel restrictions...get nothing in the budget and instead get told how we are the 'lucky ones'.

Why are we putting up with this?

You would like free money for doing your job, on top of your usual take home pay? Me too.

Who would you like to pay for it?

Presumably you haven't had your annual leave time reduced? Employers cannot reduce your entitlement.

Topgear on Dave

The_Brood wrote: »

So those of us who remained working the entire time, keeping the coffers afloat with taxes, in some occupations denied a proper leave from work because of travel restrictions...get nothing in the budget and instead get told how we are the 'lucky ones'.

Why are we putting up with this?

Iv worked the entire time and can't go anywhere either.

Compared to working in airlines, or pub / restaurant trade, or ending up on PUP etc I consider myself to be on an absolute winner.

The Rooster

The Rooster wrote: »

You would like free money for doing your job, on top of your usual take home pay? Me too.

Who would you like to pay for it?

Presumably you haven't had your annual leave time reduced? Employers cannot reduce your entitlement.

Stunning points

Maybe you want to address the free money that was given away, and to whom

Yknow, what the whole point is?

Wanderer78

Topgear on Dave wrote:

Iv had quite a few jobs over the last 25 years, the conditions have never been that bad.

Assume you're not in your 20's/30's then?

Topgear on Dave

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Assume you're not in your 20's/30's then?

I work in a team with people from 23 to about 55.

The working conditions are all the same.

Wanderer78

Topgear on Dave wrote:

I work in a team with people from 23 to about 55.

But there has been and is growing uncertainty and precariousness in employment in general, particularly for younger generations, but not only that, there's growing insecurities overall, most noticeable in property and health care needs, again, mainly for these younger generations

There's things that are much improved now than say thirty years ago and things that aren't

That's life

Every generation gets its shot

Constant comparison to what people working twenty years have attained isn't exactly an honest approach either

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote:

Constant comparison to what people working twenty years have attained isn't exactly an honest approach either

I will agree to a point, but these folks aren't getting pi$$ed off over nothing, and they've had enough, and rightly so

Theres an element of that which is true and and element which is questionable

Housing needs sorted, no arguments

But contribution should be expected, and not just demanding your rights on twitter or in the streets

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote:

But contribution should be expected, and not just demanding your rights on twitter or in the streets

Long term unemployment is extremely complex, there's nothing simply there, in regards solutions, only cans of worms

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Long term unemployment is extremely complex, there's nothing simply there, in regards solutions, only cans of worms

It's actually quite simple. Get a job and fund yourself. Simple

whisky_galore

iColdFusion wrote: »

Then why not give €203 as a bonus to every Garda, Nurse and Teacher, surely they deserve it more and would spend it in the local economy also?

Maybe we could give them another round of applause?

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote:

It's actually quite simple. Get a job and fund yourself. Simple

No it's not, it really really isn't, that's just ignorance

suicide_circus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Again, is the issue with welfare our with working conditions?

Are you suggesting that a significant amount of the long term unemployed in this country are unemployed because working conditions are so onerous and forbidding that they've no option but to remain unemployed? This isn't Dickensian London. Stuff like zero hour contracts are crap but broadly speaking working conditions in Ireland are pretty favourable.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

No it's not, it really really isn't, that's just ignorance

I worked in housing frontline for several years and have plenty of experience with welfare supports in a range of ways throughout my life to date. Most people do, and haven't just decided on their worldview this instant on a message board

Consistently pointing to a paper or two you've read and talking down to posters about how complex these things are as a substitute for engagement on points you don't want to address is poor form

Topgear on Dave

Wanderer78 wrote: »

But there has been and is growing uncertainty and precariousness in employment in general, particularly for younger generations, but not only that, there's growing insecurities overall, most noticeable in property and health care needs, again, mainly for these younger generations

There's some precariousness but not less than 30/40/50 years ago. In my experience generally employers do not want to let staff go, good staff are hard to get.

There is certainly a problem in housing but health is much much better than it used to be, healthcare problems would generally affect an older cohort. Most youth are healthy.

The Rooster

Deleted User wrote: »

Stunning points

Maybe you want to address the free money that was given away, and to whom

Yknow, what the whole point is?

I addressed the point raised.

Someone else got free money. I want free money.
Someone else has a big car. I want a big car.
Someone else has a big house. I want a big house.
Ad nauseum.

People getting excited in a negative way about a Christmas Bonus for social welfare recipients, that's already been built in and is paid pretty much every year, is just a bit odd I think.

Some employers divide annual salaries by 13 when calculating monthly payment, and so pay double in December - not as performance bonus but as a right. Almost like a way of saving so people have extra money in December. I don't think the welfare "bonus" is much different.

I personally think our welfare payments are perhaps a little high as potentially there's not enough encouragement for some people to find work. However it's far from outrageous and I don't think looking after the unemployed is a bad complaint in a society and there are far more pressing issues.

The Rooster

The Rooster wrote: »

I addressed the point raised.

Someone else got free money. I want free money.
Someone else has a big car. I want a big car.
Someone else has a big house. I want a big house.
Ad nauseum.

People getting excited in a negative way about a Christmas Bonus for social welfare recipients, that's already been built in and is paid pretty much every year, is just a bit odd I think.

Some employers divide annual salaries by 13 when calculating monthly payment, and so pay double in December - not as performance bonus but as a right. Almost like a way of saving so people have extra money in December. I don't think the welfare "bonus" is much different.

I personally think our welfare payments are perhaps a little high as potentially there's not enough encouragement for some people to find work. However it's far from outrageous and I don't think looking after the unemployed is a bad complaint in a society and there are far more pressing issues.

Fairer put!

The essential points are sound, most ppl are happy to see a well funded social welfare system in my experience

But we have real pain points around housing in particular that means that the free money going up for one lot while still being taken from the other lot is clearly a sticky issue and HAP and Christmas bonuses are two in particular that stick in the craw of anyone struggling themselves to get on the ladder or pay their bills day to day

I think handwaving that away isn't the right approach