Furiosa

pixelburp

The first thing to understand about Mad Max canon: there is none.

George Miller famously doesn't give a crap and doesn't even try to imply or suggest all the films are interconnected and trying to divine some kind of linearity between Mad Max, Road Warrior, Thunderdome & Fury Road is a fool's errand. Best way to think of it: the entire series are fables, oral history told between people of this guy called "Max" who kept showing up at various points - sometimes in defiance of apparent lifespans or logic - to help people out; then he disappears into the ether, never staying put.

But lore or canon? Nuh'uh, just ain't happening. Furiosa obviously IS a prequel to the titular character's backstory, but the main "Max" films simply don't have that kind of canon.

silliussoddius

If you haven't seen the older films:

Spoiler Warning

Doesn't the Gyro captain appear in both The Road Warrior and Beyond Thunderdome with no continuity?

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227433#Comment_122227433

They're separate characters AFAIK albeit played by the same guy, again as part of the whole "canon doesn't matter here".

Was listening to the Blank Check podcast on this and seems like Miller retains full control of this property - hence the relative lack of output and merchandise. One worries once he passes we're gonna see the reboot appear not long after. Unless perhaps he passes the rights to an Estate?

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226683#Comment_122226683

that doesn’t make it any clearer at all :)

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226737#Comment_122226737

I figured as much about Miller’s attitude to canon and continuity from his comment that Furiosa “maybe takes place after Thunderdome / 45 years after the collapse”.

However nothing in the original three films or in Fury Road contradicts and they seem to have a continuity other than Bruce Spence playing two different but the same pilots.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227433#Comment_122227433

Bruce Spence is the “Gyro Captain” in Road Warrior. In Thunderdome he is a pilot called Jebadiah but Miller himself (I think) said he isn’t the same guy, he just wanted Spence again.

Tony EH

There's continuity in the original Mad Max series in that it takes place in the same "universe" and it features a guy called Max. Beyond that, there's not much to point a finger at. But there doesn't have to be. It's the world that the audience is coming to these movies to see, not any particular character, or canon, or lore. But Gibson's Max is the same guy in all three movies and we follow him on his adventure through the wasteland. But the three stories are quite different and relatively unconnected, which isn't a bad thing.

Unfortunately though, for the likes of 'Fury Road' and 'Furiosa', it's impossible for me to see them as part of the original series of films with Gibson. To me they are their own breed, as it were. Hardy's Max just isn't Gibson's Max and he could just as easily be called Crazy Carl. I think it would have been better if 'Fury Road' hadn't included Max at all, in fact, and was just a continuation of the post apocalyptic world instead.

It's clear that Miller isn't all that enthused at building any kind of canon for his series and that's great, as far as I'm concerned. Because, almost inevitably, that canon gets muddled and confused, and sometimes completely contradicted. Hello Star Wars/Star Trek.

head82

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233325#Comment_122233325

Spoiler Warning

The car Max drives in 'Mad Max' 1 and 2.. a V8 Interceptor (actually a Ford Falcon Coupe) is the same car you see at the beginning of 'Fury Road' and the brief cameo in 'Furiosa'. I can't remember what car, if any he drives in 'Beyond Thunderdome'.
If we are attempting to impose a time scale or linearity upon these movies, it would not be unreasonable to assume that the 'Beyond Thunderdome' storyline takes place after 'Fury Road/Furiosa'.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234716#Comment_122234716

Spoiler Warning

Max's V8 doesn't make an appearance in Beyond Thunderdome. He's using a camel drawn cart made from some previously motorised vehicle at the beginning of the film. That gets repaired in Bartertown and he uses it at the end.

buried

Its a fine way to spend a spare day, if you have it, watching the three of Mel Gibsons Mad Max character films. Everybody loves the second one but the first film is just clever raw underground brilliance. And the third one is a hell of a lot better than some of the trash that gets spewed out these days. I've a soft spot for the third one really, its heavily dictated by the corporate Hollywood franchise machine, both in its production value (great) and its story (weak enough), but it's a spectacular barometer of what was eventually to come in our own age.

Norrie Rugger Head

3 is nowhere near as bad as people claim, it's better than many praised actioners. It's only weak in comparison to it's predecessor.

It's worth watching alone, imho, for Tina

pixelburp

Three's ugly duckling status suffers from it never originally being a Mad Max movie, but was a random script about lost kids living through the apocalypse; they put Max into it but it never quite escaped that sense of it being something else entirely.

buried

The production and world-building in the third one is brilliant though. Fury Road wouldn't exist without the world building aspect of the wasteland in Beyond Thunderdome, as weakish as the story aspect was.

Fysh

Beyond Thunderdome is not a complete turd of a film but it is a much lesser film than either of the previous Max films, partly for the blatant "two stories inelegantly smushed together" aspect of the narrative and partly for the drop in age rating meaning that the violent nature of life in the post-apocalyptic outback was neutered.

It still has some great moments, mind, but I'd say it's the only Mad Max film (including Furiosa) that I'd have to give a caveat for when recommending it.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122243033#Comment_122243033

The train chase was fabulous, while Master Blaster and the overall aesthetic lended and argument that the iconography of Fury Road was directly related to Thunderdome more than Road Warrior.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122243049#Comment_122243049

Yeah, It's just the aspect of brutal warlords taking over the wasteland and indoctrinating some sort of brute cult control that we see in the third one with Aunties character, setting up the fortress with all its scams and forced control that only benefit her and her immediate circle. That's what Fury Road was all about, and I suspect what Miller was originally going for in Beyond Thunderdome, but the greasy Hollywood money got involved so it had to incorporate the money making shtick at the time, which was Speilbergian blockbuster works such as the Goonies/Lost boys etc. Thats why we had to suffer the lost desert kids, and why the whole thing became messy. The story of brutal warlords/warladies taking over is the entertaining aspect of the third one, and was IMO Millers original interpretation for it.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122242814#Comment_122242814

'Beyond Thunderdome' is a genuinely good film. Its opening is superb, in fact I think it's the best opening of the three original films. The ending is excellent too. Where the third film falls down is when we meet up with the kids. I get what Miller was trying to do with all of that, but it's always just a let down and it brings everything to a crashing halt. However it's, as you say, a hell of a lot better than some of the trash that gets spewed out these days. But that's really not hard considering the poor fare that's on offer a lot of the time.

Personally, I feel that the worst of the original three is the first film. Sure, it's got something going for it in that it was made for tuppence ha'penny and the stunts can be great to look at. But it doesn't really get going until the last 15 minutes and for too long it feels dull. Also, I don't feel like I'm anywhere but the Australian outback in 1979, as opposed to the brilliantly realised post-apocalyptic world in 'Mad Max 2' and 'Beyond Thunderdome'. I get that 'Mad Max' is the epoch of the apocalypse and that not everything has completely fallen apart yet, but it's just not enough. Bottom line is I've always felt the first movie to be a real chore to get through.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122243762#Comment_122243762

I used to feel that way about the first film but liked it more after watching it again around the release of Fury Road. It helps that it's only 90 minutes or so, but like you say the budget was very thin.

For the truck smash toward the end, they paid some local $100 to use his truck. He was a bit worried about damaging it so he put some ply-wood over the grill, if you watch the scene closely you can see it.

pixelburp

That nobody ever died making that first movie remains a minor miracle.

Heck that nobody died making Fury Road is also a miracle. Even Steven Soderbergh agrees lol

https://theplaylist.net/steven-soderbergh-mad-max-fury-road-20171109/

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122244116#Comment_122244116

The irony of dying in a film littered with quasi-suicidal characters screaming "Witness me!".

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218704#Comment_122218704

Isn't Hardys character supposed to be the feral boy in Mad Max 2 , There's a lots off little hints & nods towards it ,

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122245913#Comment_122245913

No, apart from the fact that the Feral boy said he went on to lead The Great Northern Tribe there are a series of graphic novels that came out around the time of Fury Road that explains what happens before the events of the film.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122245913#Comment_122245913

Nope, he's Max Rockatansky, just part of that fluid sense of Lore and canon.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122244298#Comment_122244298

You can sorta see it though: some of the stuntwork was so impeccable it was hard to see here and how the cuts or CGI were made.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122247163#Comment_122247163

Absolutely. I'm only being flippant because nobody died. If the WarBoys knew how many people had witnessed their antics…

silverharp

They missed out on a Mel Gibson movie, a good old style high octane movie would have done well, Im hearing this film has lost a shed tonne of money

buried

I'll be going seeing this again on Thursday, this will be the fourth time I'm going to see her on the big screen. Awful shame this isn't doing well at the box office, its pure brilliant escapism. The scene with the chrome truck being attacked by the flying demented bikers is just 10 minutes of classic action cinematic sequential brilliance.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122247163#Comment_122247163

Is he though , the feral boys tribe had the car , the feral boy didn't speak ,Hardy barely speaks , Hardy doesn't play Max like Max, There's the music box , they call him raging feral multiple times ,He doesn't say his name and then at the end it's like he decides to be Max when he tells them ,

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248102#Comment_122248102

Yup, it's Max. I'm not 100% Miller has confirmed it, but he has also dismissed any quibbling over lore or canon … so sure, if you really wanted to you could probably say it's the Feral Kid - but equally, the series is just a cinematic form of fable and wasteland mythology; heck there's a more believable theory none of the Max's in the sequels are Max Rockatansky - that it just became a name attached to wandering nomads who helped folk out, then wandered back into the wasteland only to become legends told in the History Men's Word Burgers.

buried

If Miller was able to make another one, and hopefully he will, what do ye think the story should be?

ronano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248303#Comment_122248303

He's on record as wanting to do 'the wasteland' which much like furiosa came from writing extensive background for fury road. My understanding is it's set the year before fury road and includes the war that's montaged in furiosa. It may be about Max getting his V8 back up running with parts but tbh I've not followed it loads. I don't expect it to be made as a film, possibly a TV show or animated

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248303#Comment_122248303

They could pull a 28 days Later and it turn out the rest of the world was actually okay and still in one piece 🤡 mic drop, series over.

Or, if there's one last one it should be Max finally reconciling his past, learning to address his loss and find a new family or home.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248303#Comment_122248303

Make it aquatic.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248303#Comment_122248303

From everything I've heard, he's already written it.. It'll be The Wasteland and set prior to Fury Road. I'd also suggest giving the game a play as well, it's a great game and very much so part of the series.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122247828#Comment_122247828

We have lots of high octane movies but Miller's parables are a pretty unique experience. I also don't think there's huge demand for Gibson to return.

pixelburp

If Mel Gibson was still a box office draw he'd have had a hit by now, or been hired outside of villain roles for B Movies. Why he's not acting outside of digital schlock is well understood, and good riddance TBH.

Sudden Valley

I hope they do make another movie and it is set in totally different part of the Mad Max world. Always seemed a bit of a risk retreading the same environment from the previous movie. Taylor Joy and Hemsworth would very good so its pity they weren't cast in a different Mad Max movie with Mad Max actually in it, in a different setting.

CGI was distracting in a lot of the set pieces, for example in bullet town, half the action looked great the other half looked like it was shot in a completely different environment. Just had a whole different feel to Fury Road and I didnt think the quality of CGI could match the ambition of the script.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251875#Comment_122251875

It would have been similar to Top Gun, a chance to connect with the past, it would have gotten me off the sofa and bring some family members too. Furiosa just sat in the middle, its the second serving of a movie no teenager would care about. I dont know where the big movies will come from these days, but this wasnt going to be it, that was obvious.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258819#Comment_122258819

I do think the film has stretches of CG dodginess - the Citadel attack being the most obvious to me, where some shots felt off and unfinished - although mostly stays on the right side of the divide, even if it lacks the sheer physicality of Fury Road. Kyle Buchanan has noted some of the production team were a bit frustrated with Miller relying on CG for some sequences and design details rather than allowing for some more old-school creativity.

But some allowances should be made too IMO. By all accounts Fury Road's desert shoot in Namibia was a hugely gruelling experience for everyone involved (explained in extraordinary detail in Blood, Sweat and Chrome), and this was a much less arduous shoot for everyone. While we all morbidly enjoy the tales from a nightmare film shoot, ultimately not putting workers through hell is a positive change :) I also believe the Australian conditions the film was shot in were unusually lush for that time of year, so compromises and changes had to be made due to the practical reality on the ground.

Granted, Fury Road still stands proud as a uniquely vivid piece of modern filmmaking even with a heavy amount of computer work in there. But some of the reasons for a different kind of production were made for sensible, understandable reasons rather than just laziness or cost-saving. And while it's a different film to Fury Road, Furiosa is still great enough even with a few CG excesses that I'm more willing to forgive it then some other films that get completely lost in CG weightlessness. I can't imagine modern Spielberg, for example, pulling off something like the War Rig chase here.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259059#Comment_122259059

Cruise is still a huge star, Gibson is not. I'm pretty glad that Miller is choosing to pursue unique works versus rethreading old ground. We criticise franchises for lacking originality but Fury Road and Furiosa are pretty unusual experiences that stay with you. Visually stunning and authentic plus a genuine plot that runs throughout alongside some great world building.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258819#Comment_122258819

This is the problem with calling your movie after the name of a character. Without that character in every movie, you run the risk of audience drop off, even if the same "world" is used. I think this is the reason why 'Furiosa' has tanked.

"Furiosa…what's that about?"

Apparently the next instalment is called 'Mad Max Wasteland' and I'd almost guarantee you it'll do better than 'Furiosa' has. In fact, even if it was just called 'Wasteland', it would probably do better and it might even allow the producers to write Max out of the series altogether and start again relatively fresh. Max is now the weak point in the movies. Plus, I can see Hardy getting aged out of the role in the next few years, meaning yet another actor switch. Something I really, really, hate.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259582#Comment_122259582

Weird argument anyway: why would teenagers want to "connect with the past" and watch their parents' old movies? Watching a now famously racist, bigoted maniac reprise an ancient role in another 'memberberry nostalgia jerk-off? Yeah I can really see young demographics being totally down for that.

Yeah, we got two idiosyncratic blockbusters, neither did well at the box office but are guaranteed to live on in the "discourse" and with film enthusiasts. It's like people haven't heard of the "cult classic" before.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251979#Comment_122251979

Gibson has his troubles, for sure, and alcoholism can make you do and say the most outrageous and stupid shit. He's probably a bit of a plonker into the bargain.

However, I would have preferred him in 'Fury Road' to Tom Hardy. No question about it.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259668#Comment_122259668

Oh I won't argue that in his pomp, Mel Gibson was a star for a very good, demonstrable reason. When people lament the death of the classic Hollywood Leading Star, you can easily point to Gibson for a more modern example of an actor whose name alone could open a movie - or even get it made to begin with. Christ, he was in that weird John Wick prequel "series" and he dominated the show anytime he appeared, scenery chewing n' all.

But the suggestion Mel Gibson has any kind of box office traction now would be akin to thinking Jared Leto or Johnny Depp aren't total box office poison.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259656#Comment_122259656

I enjoyed Tom Hardy as mad max, he has a great screen presensence so they could retain him as he gets older, Mad Max doesn't have to be that young. Hardy is only 46 now, and action stars can act into their 50s and beyond now.

Mad Max is just different to any other dystopian movie universe with its Australian setting, but I think they should retire it when Miller dies.

johnny_ultimate

TBH I find it entirely unsurprising that Furiosa and Fury Road before it weren't gigantic box office hits. They're too odd and idiosyncratic for that.

What I do find genuinely surprising - baffling, even - is that anyone who liked or loved Fury Road wouldn't go see Furiosa just because Max isn't in it. Surely George Miller getting to play around in this world again is an enticing prospect with or without a grunting Max being along for the ride, especially given the overwhelmingly positive reception the film has received from critics and fans alike.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259691#Comment_122259691

Aye, he's not a BO draw for most movies today without a doubt. However, everyone who's seen a Mad Max movie associates Mel Gibson with that role, so there's an argument that he would have been a draw for 'Mad Max Fury Road' and bear in mind that was made 10 years ago. Also I don't think anyone went to see that picture purely because Tom Hardy was in it.

It would have been nice, perhaps, to have Gibson as an ageing Max and, maybe, kill him off in some noble sacrifice, thus freeing you up to carry on the series without having to focus on a particular character all the time. But then, what would you call it?

Mmmmm…Furiosa? 😁

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259705#Comment_122259705

Hardy's a good actor, don't get me wrong. But actor switcheroo's are a pet hate of mine. And for me, he's the weak link in Fury Road.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259750#Comment_122259750

Also I don't think anyone went to see that picture purely because Tom Hardy was in it.

…

Mmmmm…Furiosa? 😁

Purely for Tom Hardy? Possibly not no … but what made Fury Road sing IMO, and in some respects I think doomed Furiosa funnily enough, was the presence and absence of Charlize Theron respectably. I do think if Theron was reprising the role it might have had a better run of it. Maybe.

And given Furiosa was formed from a parallel script that existed around the time of Fury Road's production, it was clear to me Miller himself always had Theron's character front of mind - and perhaps only introduced Max at all as a sop to the studio.

TBH I don't think "Mad Max" is a draw full stop and is too niche or cult to have ever been the kind of blockbuster material Warners thought it was (enough to try not once, but twice - though Im glad they did and Miller got two chances to muck about). The box offices, while disappointing, are kinda accurate for the subject.

Fysh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259768#Comment_122259768

There is a fan edited version of Fury Road where Max's character is entirely removed, if you fancy looking that up.

Personally while I dislike actor replacements, the Mad Max films have such disregard for canon and continuity that, tbh, I'd prefer a different face than having post-hanging-his-whole-arse-out-in-public Gibson back just because he was in previous films.

Heck, were it not for the film's more down-to-earth tone you could make a good argument for Rover (the Guy Pierce vehicle, arf arf) being set in the same wasteland as the Mad Max films.

johnny_ultimate

A fan edit of Fury Road?!

ancapailldorcha

I've never seen the original films. Probably never will to be honest. I watched Fury Road at a nearby cinema just before Furiosa released and I'm fine with Hardy as the lead.

Gibson made all of his own problems so I've no sympathy there.