Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
How would you feel if restrictions were lifted?
Options
Comments
-
No obivously I wouldn't be happy. But I genuinely do not believe that is a something that is likely to happen if such a move was taken as my parents are not in the vulnerable category.
NB the virus does not differentiate. Some of the dead were strong, healthy folk; we are all vulnerable. There is no escape; unless we take the care we are taking.
No one is immune.
And we need to join forces against it not cry" IT'S NOT FAIR" or that you don't agree with safeguards.0 -
There is no fear. Just avoiding what can be a fatal and damaging virus.
And as we see even from this thread, many refuse to take any care. Hence the current restrictions.
There is no "cop on". So the rules are needed.
People have grown very insouciant. A dangerous state.
" I donn't understand the whole I'm afraid of catching covid so everyone should lock down/follow strict conditions approach. I don't think it makes much difference as all the people peddling lockdown have pretty much locked themselves down already, people going about their lives normal shouldn't affect them assuming as looks the case that the transmission in supermarkets and pharmacies etc is miniscule. People seem to think they know what is best for the elderly/others and force it upon them. Most elderly have pensions or other means of living and do not have to work etc. They and the vulnerable should be told we will support you if you want it but you are free to take the risks if you so please, we aren't forcing you to do anything. As I say I don't see how this approach wouldn't suit the majority as all those calling for lockdown wouldn't be affected by it anyway and if they are as in they can't work from home, they should be allowed quit and go on a higher rate of pup than we currently have.
At least with people back to work and spending as they normally would we can keep the obscene spending and borrowing going for much longer than our current course.
Obviously this approach won't work in community settings such as nursing homes etc, and the approach in those settings would have to be extremely strict, better education for those working there on covid measures etc, no visits, if a nursing home resident wants to be visited and be free they should look into home help etc so as not to impact other residents.
Essentially a two society system, where the two only meet in shopping centres, pharmacies etc, and in these places very strict lockdown like measures are in place such as limited numbers in shop, exaggerated distancing etc as well as current measures such as masks, sanitiser etc.
It's not like this would affect the lockdown peddlers as they aren't the ones going to the cafe or going on shopping sprees anyway.
I know plenty of elderly who want to make their own decisions who are annoyed they can't go to mass, my own grand uncle during lockdown wouldn't go for walks because a guard stopped him one day and told him he should go back to his house for his own good even though he was within restrictions at the time, he was well aware of the risks as was willing but wouldn't go out for fear of what his neighbours or others thought.
If it then appears that it is affecting those afraid of catching it such as hospitals filling up and they can't get the help they need then lockdown for all is needed. Please don't push the mantra that it's too much for our medical workers, that's their job, I'm not talking about Italy levels, I'm talking about near or at capacity like they have been dealing with for years, which isn't right I know this country doesn't seem to do anything about it other than quote the number of those on trolleys every few weeks on the news and it dies down for another while. Once it is deemed the hospitals are near capacity we need to be locked down then as I say.
Obviously there needs to be cop on, lads going into late night tescos etc messing about after being down in the pub or getting pissed in the house all day as I have seen on friends stories in the UK and going about the place taking the piss would be a big covid risk and the likes of them need a kicking.[/QUOTE]0 -
Christ some level of denial here. Can only hope OP was on the lash.0
-
Deleted User wrote: »Angry, devestated, and terrified. But mostly murderous.
You can tell the people on these threads who have not been directly impacted by the death of a loved one from Covid.
Not yet, anyway
Is it possible to block threads, or just posters? Utterly sick of reading this kind of crap.
Fortunately the OP's and a few others on here's attitude isn't widespread in our society. I always find the "fcuk everyone else" types of people massively immature and frankly a bit sad.
Leave them to it.0 -
The OP is catching a lot flack here for being selfish, which is kind of understandable. But you can always spot the people in these threads who quality of life hasn't really been affected since March. They are either retired, working from home on full salary, on a pension etc. Yes socially their lives may be limited but they have no fear about their businesses collapsing, not being able to pay rent, being rejected for mortgages. Well these concerns are real but forgotten about in the impossible fight for zero Covid. Then these people call others selfish?! Some people have lost family members which is devastating but others have lost homes, jobs, businesses, financial independence and while not comparable, should also not be lumped in with people complaining about not being able to go to a nightclub.
Some people have seen aspects of their lives fall apart in recent months, there is more going on here than just a public health emergency.0 -
Advertisement
-
NB the virus does not differentiate. Some of the dead were strong, healthy folk; we are all vulnerable. There is no escape; unless we take the care we are taking.
No one is immune.
And we need to join forces against it not cry" IT'S NOT FAIR" or that you don't agree with safeguards.
0.000391% chance of dying probably even even less if someone is healthy. But we're all vulnerable according to you. Do you honestly think the bubonic plague only had a 0.000391% chance of death out of the entire population or did they need to falsify death statistics to make the bubonic plague look worse than it really is.0 -
Over the last few years shutting down the country seems to be the solution to everything...
Bad weather - Red warning, stay at home
Virus - Stay at home hoping that 1 day we’ll have a vaccine.
We need to toughen up a bit and accept that we can’t control nature and prevent death.0 -
Agreed to a point.The OP is catching a lot flack here for being selfish, which is kind of understandable. But you can always spot the people in these threads who quality of life hasn't really been affected since March. They are either retired, working from home on full salary, on a pension etc. Yes socially their lives may be limited but they have no fear about their businesses collapsing, not being able to pay rent, being rejected for mortgages. Well these concerns are real but forgotten about in the impossible fight for zero Covid. Then these people call others selfish?! Some people have lost family members which is devastating but others have lost homes, jobs, businesses, financial independence and while not comparable, should also not be lumped in with people complaining about not being able to go to a nightclub.
Some people have seen aspects of their lives fall apart in recent months, there is more going on here than just a public health emergency.
But theres no "Fight for Zero Covid" - that's not been the aim, nor is it the aim.
The aim is to ensure numbers in hospitals do not reach a critical point while at the same time ensuring some semplance of normality is in place.
Unfortunately this means risk assessments on every activity and implemeting risk controls on activities.
And yes, there are people, many people, effected worse than others. And it has to be accepted that this will be the case until one of two things happens.
But right now, we do not know a huge amount about this virus (more than we did in March but still relatively little). To suggest that the state should just return to "normal" and let something we know very little about tear through the population is just daft.
If people followed the existing guidelines in place there would be no need for stricter ones, however not enough people are doing this, particularily when it comes to meeting in large groups and not socially distancing.
The examples coming from our politicans hasn't been great either to be fair - theres blame everywhere but the fundamentals have not changed.
Reduce close contacts.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Over the last few years shutting down the country seems to be the solution to everything...
Bad weather - Red warning, stay at home
Virus - Stay at home hoping that 1 day we’ll have a vaccine.
We need to toughen up a bit and accept that we can’t control nature and prevent death.
Well,
that's just nonsense.
We were able to leave home for most of the past few months without issue. The problem arises when the reason we are leaving home is to meet large groups of people and/or in non-socially distanced environments.
We control nature and prevent death all the time - that's just a ridiculous statement to make. Obviously its not in our hands all the time but life expectancy has increased for a reason.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »We need to toughen up a bit and accept that we can’t control nature and prevent death.
Will you also be forgoing modern medicine when you get sick? It's natural to get sick and die after all. Perhaps you should just toughen up and accept that.0 -
Advertisement
-
No obivously I wouldn't be happy. But I genuinely do not believe that is a something that is likely to happen if such a move was taken as my parents are not in the vulnerable category.
GT how is all of this affecting you? I have a feeling its taking a huge toll on your life. I know that it's doing a number on mine. Certainly for some people they are happy out, but not everyone is having a positive experience. A poster mentioned something along the lines of not needing holidays to define them. I wish I were as uncomplicated. I wish the invisible weight pressing on me would disappear and instead be just a bit annoyed that I can't travel.
It is about so much more than activities. It is how we deal with choice being limited, with the difference between life last year and now. There are triggers for mental illness such as isolation, lack of social supports, and the collective trauma we are all in. Of course our boats are different.
The thing is though that it isn't just about your parents and it isn't just about you. If we take away restrictions people will die and you don't want that to happen. Yes the elderly are more vulnerable and I do believe Covid is a lottery among the young. If we can keep them alive though, if our actions mean people get to live a meaningful life then it is important to hold firm.
I've no time for the "suck it up" crowd. Life is far too complex for that mentality. So while I can understand and empathise with all the different experiences people are having this is much bigger than your pain and mine. Be angry with Covid but anger towards the Government and others is misplaced and futile.0 -
Sounds like a dream, i would be beyond happy even though i’m considered high risk having long term illness since childhood0
-
NB the virus does not differentiate. Some of the dead were strong, healthy folk; we are all vulnerable. There is no escape; unless we take the care we are taking.
No one is immune.
And we need to join forces against it not cry" IT'S NOT FAIR" or that you don't agree with safeguards.
I agree fully that we need to see solidarity in getting through this but, let's be honest, you don't seem to have been impacted by the restrictions or have had to watch young people you know and love put their lives on hold this year. Neither have you, nor anybody in your household, suffered from the severe restrictions on the economy - in fact you probably got the extra benefits and the christmas bonus in yesterday's budget. The OP's scenario is a nightmare but we need to find a balance and a way of living with this thing.0 -
Conversely, how would you feel if the government suddenly amassed the resources required to become a totalitarian regime, everyone without exception had to stay at home for a month and enforcement was 100%? If you had to have a government issued document to leave your house for essential work. If "defectors" were rounded up and kept under lock and key?
Like the OP, the above is also an insane idea.
We're taking an incredibly moderate approach, which is only serving to prolong the damage. Maybe if the government took more decisive action and invested everything in getting this down to levels where it could be traced effectively by a system that's fit for purpose, our hospital system wouldn't be overwhelmed, businesses wouldn't now be forced to close forever, young people could feel safe socialising, schools wouldn't be shutting left right and centre, employment wouldn't be disrupted, normal medical procedures could go ahead and generally we could feel safer as a society.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Over the last few years shutting down the country seems to be the solution to everything...
Bad weather - Red warning, stay at home
Virus - Stay at home hoping that 1 day we’ll have a vaccine.
We need to toughen up a bit and accept that we can’t control nature and prevent death.
Aye!!
Feck science meddling in nature trying to prolong life!!
Pesky antibiotics curing people, cant they just accept nature??
And clothes!!. What are people thinking controlling nature like that?
Forks and knives? Idiots, didnt nature give us fingers?
Your so right. What on earth are we thinking not living in trees? Houses arent natural at all. We've lost the run of ourselves..0 -
You do realise that chances of dying of covid 19 in Ireland are 0.000391%Assume he is basing the deaths so far, up around 1800 against the entire population, 5 million plus.
Even if this is the way they are doing it their figure is wrong by a rather sizable factor of 100. The percentage is .03xxx% not .0003xxx%.
Not sure why people are so terrible at percentages.0 -
I wouldn't want it let loose. I think we'd put our health services into a position they couldn't cope with. It would cause unnecessary deaths.
However here is where it gets tricky.
There will be deaths. There will be deaths even if there was no covid. Old people would still be dying. At the moment the media and propaganda* induced public hysteria prevents any meaningful analysis. So who knows what is an unnecessary death? At the moment every covid death is unnecessary and must be prevented at all costs. Even if the cost are other deaths. Because hey they are down the road, they are not as tangible. So who cares. Maybe we care later.
What I would be happy with is to let it loose in a controlled fashion. Get as many people infected as possible without letting the hospital situation get critical. Because we need to get to some sort of immunity and vaccines are a long way out and far from certain. There is no other way. And yes there will be deaths down that road. But there is no other way unless we commit suicide by a thousand lockdowns.
Just on that note. The German Robert Koch Institute - they advise the German government like Nphet advises ours - came out with a strategy paper yesterday. They're basically saying even if there is a vaccine next year, distancing, masks, no gatherings are here to stay for many years anyway, maybe for our lifetime.
Well **** that. Before that happens I would actually advocate let it rip. They are many ways of destroying society. Thousands of unnecessary deaths would be damaging. Masks and distancing and no more social life for anyone forever would be destructive. I mean how the fvck would we actually procreate? This is completely nuts.
*And no, propaganda is not a CT word. Propaganda means manipulation of information. That is exactly what is happening.0 -
Like the poster above, I would not advocate total unmitigated spread of the virus but rather a controlled spread among the healthy population until a measure of collective immunity is attained.
However if the scenario outlined by the OP were to happen I would not leave the country, as some on here seem to be suggesting, as the virus simply isn't that dangerous for the vast bulk of the population.0 -
-
Bit cynical wrote: »Like the poster above, I would not advocate total unmitigated spread of the virus but rather a controlled spread among the healthy population until a measure of collective immunity is attained.
How does that work in practice though? It's one thing being for something and it's another having a practical way to do it. How do the vulnerable isolate while the virus spreads if they live with non vunerable? What happens if there's no long term immunity in those infected? What about the young or non vunerable who die, do their families get compensation? What about those in nursing homes?
This option is always presented as some kind of ideal solution (as the internet is prone to produce) but in the real world it would produce severe real world problems that seem to be ignored intentionally.0 -
Advertisement
-
ArmaniJeanss wrote: »Even if this is the way they are doing it their figure is wrong by a rather sizable factor of 100. The percentage is .03xxx% not .0003xxx%.
Not sure why people are so terrible at percentages.
I just assume all figures quoted on here are way off and work off the general logic being applied tbh.0 -
Totally agree.Tordelback wrote: »In other words, meaningless nonsense. For a start it ignores who "you" are. IFR is vastly different across the population.0 -
CalamariFritti wrote: »I wouldn't want it let loose. I think we'd put our health services into a position they couldn't cope with. It would cause unnecessary deaths.
However here is where it gets tricky.
There will be deaths. There will be deaths even if there was no covid. Old people would still be dying. At the moment the media and propaganda* induced public hysteria prevents any meaningful analysis. So who knows what is an unnecessary death? At the moment every covid death is unnecessary and must be prevented at all costs. Even if the cost are other deaths. Because hey they are down the road, they are not as tangible. So who cares. Maybe we care later.
What I would be happy with is to let it loose in a controlled fashion. Get as many people infected as possible without letting the hospital situation get critical. Because we need to get to some sort of immunity and vaccines are a long way out and far from certain. There is no other way. And yes there will be deaths down that road. But there is no other way unless we commit suicide by a thousand lockdowns.
Just on that note. The German Robert Koch Institute - they advise the German government like Nphet advises ours - came out with a strategy paper yesterday. They're basically saying even if there is a vaccine next year, distancing, masks, no gatherings are here to stay for many years anyway, maybe for our lifetime.
Well **** that. Before that happens I would actually advocate let it rip. They are many ways of destroying society. Thousands of unnecessary deaths would be damaging. Masks and distancing and no more social life for anyone forever would be destructive. I mean how the fvck would we actually procreate? This is completely nuts.
*And no, propaganda is not a CT word. Propaganda means manipulation of information. That is exactly what is happening.
Let it loose in a controlled manner? How?
And how would we procreate? Are you actually serious?0 -
We don't know how long immunity lasts with the virus as it hasn't been around that long. We do know that reinfections, as recently reported, are very rare. Moreover, for those waiting for a vaccine, we won't know how long immunity from that lasts either until the same amount of time has passed.How does that work in practice though? It's one thing being for something and it's another having a practical way to do it. How do the vulnerable isolate while the virus spreads if they live with non vunerable? What happens if there's no long term immunity in those infected? What about the young or non vunerable who die, do their families get compensation? What about those in nursing homes?
This option is always presented as some kind of ideal solution (as the internet is prone to produce) but in the real world it would produce severe real world problems that seem to be ignored intentionally.
Nursing homes could easily have been better protected in Ireland by not moving infected patients into them from hospitals. A lot more is known about how to manage the virus and prevent it spreading in critical areas than in the early days.
There's no ideal solution though. Each has its problems.
Those of us advocating stricter lockdowns need to examine the assumptions they are making to support that course of action. Are we thinking there will be a vaccine in the early part of next year? How effective will the vaccine be? How long will it take to vaccinate everyone? How many will refuse the vaccine? How long will immunity last from it?
How will the economy be affected by a protracted lockdown? How will the health service function without funding if the economy is badly affected?0 -
Tordelback wrote: »In other words, meaningless nonsense. For a start it ignores who "you" are. IFR is vastly different across the population.
Well yes it probably is. However you have no way of knowing what it actually is. Nobody does because nobody has any idea how many were already in contact with the virus. Current estimates of IFR are very small too. Hell even the numbers collected by HSE for the last 3 months are actually very low.0 -
-
It's a balance.Bit cynical wrote: »We don't know how long immunity lasts with the virus as it hasn't been around that long. We do know that reinfections, as recently reported, are very rare. Moreover, for those waiting for a vaccine, we won't know how long immunity from that lasts either until the same amount of time has passed.
Nursing homes could easily have been better protected in Ireland by not moving infected patients into them from hospitals. A lot more is known about how to manage the virus and prevent it spreading in critical areas than in the early days.
There's no ideal solution though. Each has its problems.
Those of us advocating stricter lockdowns need to examine the assumptions they are making to support that course of action. Are we thinking there will be a vaccine in the early part of next year? How effective will the vaccine be? How long will it take to vaccinate everyone? How many will refuse the vaccine? How long will immunity last from it?
How will the economy be affected by a protracted lockdown? How will the health service function without funding if the economy is badly affected?
No one knows those answers - like a lot of things with this virus.
If more was known about immunity, it might be possible to make alternative decisions. If more was known about longer lasting health implications as a result of having the virus, alternative decisions could be made.
The only thing that is known is that capacity in hospitals is limited by a few factors and that limited close contacts, social distancing, handwashing and mask wearing reduces the spread of the virus.
Personally, I don think that the restrictions we had in place up until two weeks ago were enough to keep the virus number down IF the vast majority of the population lived by them AND we had adequate track and trace systems in place.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »GT how is all of this affecting you? I have a feeling its taking a huge toll on your life. I know that it's doing a number on mine. Certainly for some people they are happy out, but not everyone is having a positive experience. A poster mentioned something along the lines of not needing holidays to define them. I wish I were as uncomplicated. I wish the invisible weight pressing on me would disappear and instead be just a bit annoyed that I can't travel.
It is about so much more than activities. It is how we deal with choice being limited, with the difference between life last year and now. There are triggers for mental illness such as isolation, lack of social supports, and the collective trauma we are all in. Of course our boats are different.
The thing is though that it isn't just about your parents and it isn't just about you. If we take away restrictions people will die and you don't want that to happen. Yes the elderly are more vulnerable and I do believe Covid is a lottery among the young. If we can keep them alive though, if our actions mean people get to live a meaningful life then it is important to hold firm.
I've no time for the "suck it up" crowd. Life is far too complex for that mentality. So while I can understand and empathise with all the different experiences people are having this is much bigger than your pain and mine. Be angry with Covid but anger towards the Government and others is misplaced and futile.
That was me, and I feel I should respond. What I said was that I would love a sun holiday, a night out and a shopping trip but that such things don't define my happiness. That was not to have a go at people genuinely suffering mental or emotional issues because of lockdown and I apologise if that's how it came across. It was more in response to the endless complaints about the pubs re-opening (or not) and someone else who mentioned packing 80000 people into an arena and then going on the lash. I too have had my share of problems including going through my first pregnancy, birth and first six weeks with my baby pretty much without the support of family because of restrictions and lockdowns. So, to me in that context a trip to Penney's was not really that important. But I suppose that is in line with your point that all our journeys are different and so what's ok for one will not be ok for another and I accept that.
While some people are suffering from isolation, there are also others who simply want to go out drinking again and are annoyed (at covid, the government, people who are worried about covid) because they can't do it. Incidentally many people suffering because of covid are not necessarily just ones feeling isolated.
You've also got elderly and vulnerable people in their homes, living in fear of catching this thing. Nobody wants to be a statistic, however small that might be. There are people worried about the reckless behaviour and non compliance of others which appear to be keeping us on this hamster wheel.
There are also those on the frontline and in particular healthcare workers who have to endure PPE equipment and exhausting shifts and the ever present threat that someday they may need to make a judgement call on who gets preferential treatment.
So, it isn't as simple as just saying "people are suffering because they can't go out".0 -
How would you honestly feel if the government turned around tommorrow and said the pubs can reopen to full capacity, all businneses can reopen that were closed, no more restrictions on gatherings, no more mandatory masks, people working from home should go back to work, full capacity on public transport, matches can go ahead with 80k fans, no more social distancing meaning life can return to exactly how it was before last March.
And this assumes that there is not a vaccine or effective treatment the virus would essientially be let loose. How would you feel and be 100% honest. Personally I would be delighted but know our spineless coward politicians would never have the balls to pull such a move.
I'd book a week off and go on a pub crawl in a few local towns. Maybe one in the city centre.0 -
Advertisement
-
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement