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How would you feel if restrictions were lifted?

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    #182
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭Nermal


    GT89 wrote: »
    Did that happen in Belarus?

    No, it didn't. It's total hyperbole. Even if literally the whole population became infected simultaneously, it would not be 'total chaos' and the fact that people believe this is depressing, frankly. It shows how an ill-informed stupid panic has taken root.

    When randomly tested, more than three quarters people who test positive have literally no symptoms at all: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/08/more-than-80-positive-cases-in-covid-study-had-no-core-symptoms

    That's random testing. In the working age population, particularly those working as firemen or in the police, the results would be even more stark. You could deliberately infect all of them tomorrow, and there'd still be someone to put out your house fire (or give you a speeding ticket) two weeks from now.


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    #183
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    What would telling have done? Thousands of people in China had died by the time first infections in Europe were discovered and it wasn't even big news until cases started cropping up outside China,there was already studies being published on how infectious it was and China openly displayed it's means of covid prevention to the world through lockdown, transport ban and yet flights arriving from China were not halted by most countries until it was too late. No country wanted to act until there was a need to do so and as we known with covid once there's a need to stop spread you already have a large mess on your hands. Can almost guarantee it would have gone the exact same way if it had started in any developing country but everyone loves a scapegoat

    That would be China who told the WHO that "Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳."


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    #184
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    GT89 wrote: »
    Ok Belarus seems like a messed up country with serious issues I accept that but they seem to have the reaction to covid spot on. It does not appear their entire country is dead or seriously ill.

    I guess that depends on whether you trust soviet-era style dictators or not.


    According to Stepan Putilo, an independent Belarusian journalist and owner of the NEXTA Telegram channel, the government had falsified the official data on the COVID-19 pandemic progression in Belarus and published significantly lowered numbers.


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    #185
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,501 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    GT89 wrote: »
    Well the news about the riots there seems to have gotten out. I can't see the government there wanting to inform the world that there's riots there.

    Ok Belarus seems like a messed up country with serious issues I accept that but they seem to have the reaction to covid spot on. It does not appear their entire country is dead or seriously ill.

    Was very difficult to get information about the riots out of the country, government used internet blacouts ot try and suppress dispersal of information. Was not state sanctioned coverage, all information we heard about the riots was leaked to the western media by activists., I'm sure some of them were tortured or killed for those 'crimes'. All very dystopian.
    https://www.ft.com/content/3466da92-946e-4d29-81b3-e96ba599a63e

    But yeh I agree if it was Bergamo style situation occurring in Misk right now we'd probably be seeing some leaks. But the death toll is obviously far higher than the official government figure


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    #186
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    paw patrol wrote: »
    I'm a bit late to this thread.
    OP - I'm fully with you on this. The notion of lockdown or restrictions is immoral and stupid.

    The people who are vulnerable should take steps (and receive support from the state) to protect themselves. The rest of us should be able to make risk assessment and judgement in our activities.

    Using the pub as an example but it applies to all social settings:
    If you are vulnerable you shouldn't be in a the pub EVER tbh...or you are taking a risk , during covid or flu season or any time tbh. If you are caring for a vulnerable person you should not be down the pub either.
    People will talk about vulnerable people catching covid but where will that happen? Where will they be in close contact to people who are taking risk assessments?

    There is no evidence that it is transmitted in shops or supermarkets - despite supermarkets being open and doing a roaring trade - Dunnes Stores best year ever say the financials - there isn't any major outbreak among staff. You can order online anyway.
    And the HSE say that to be a close contact you must be 15mins with a person , this doesn't happen in a shop setting.


    If you are worried you can follow the current restrictions as guidelines - they'll limit your exposure. Work from home too.
    Something tells me most of the posters agree and support the current rules so what is the problem , you are all protecting yourselves , that is good to see.

    I don't follow the restrictions , my life is too important to me to waste my time doing stuff I don't believe in.
    Anybody in my life who would be a close contact knows how I behave and acts accordingly . I have some close friends/family I've not seen because our life choices are not compatible and both sides fully accept this.

    But for some reason instead of allowing people behave in accordance with their own risk assessment and life choices the state decides to shut the whole fcuking thing down.
    They are absolute $h1tehawks ,as are some of the posters on this thread with a special mention to:



    what a weird comment only that only an utter gimp would say. It's people like you ruin society with your slavish deference the to government and its' commands . No doubt you will be curtain twitching on Halloween taking notes of the people who aren't living in fear. pathetic.

    I'd friends like this, calling me an idiot etc for going to the beach with beers during the summer. Few months later I meet him on the harbour with a bag of cans and got an apology for him going all Helen Lovejoy. More and more people are realising the risks are minimal. Once it reaches a tipping point, there is nothing the govt or the curtain twitchers can do.


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    #187
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Nermal wrote: »
    No, it didn't. It's total hyperbole. Even if literally the whole population became infected simultaneously, it would not be 'total chaos' and the fact that people believe this is depressing, frankly. It shows how an ill-informed stupid panic has taken root.

    When randomly tested, more than three quarters people who test positive have literally no symptoms at all: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/08/more-than-80-positive-cases-in-covid-study-had-no-core-symptoms

    That's random testing. In the working age population, particularly those working as firemen or in the police, the results would be even more stark. You could deliberately infect all of them tomorrow, and there'd still be someone to put out your house fire (or give you a speeding ticket) two weeks from now.

    Exactly it's all panic driven nonsense. That was the popular belief anongst Western governments last January and Feburary. The bigger concern back then was that the panic that's now commonplace might offend the Asian community.

    Back in Feburary they were encouraging you to hug a Chinese person now you can't hug your own mother.
    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-02-05/People-in-Italy-encourage-China-in-fight-against-novel-coronavirus-NPqNkY17e8/index.html


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    #188
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    GT89 wrote: »
    Exactly it's all panic driven nonsense.

    Other than the whole million plus deaths things


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    #189
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Graham wrote: »
    Pandemic that has killed 1,087,069 people so far.

    Does that work any better for you or were you looking for a more flowery description?

    Hunger kills 9m people a year. Including 2.5m little children. Covid is a minor bug in comparison.


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    #190
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Graham wrote: »
    I guess that depends on whether you trust soviet-era style dictators or not.

    Ok but the argument anout lockdowns was never about preventing deaths it was supposed to be about preventing the collapse of society. I do not see evidence of collapsed society in Belarus.


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    #191
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Graham wrote: »
    Ahhh ok, we're pretending over a million extra dead from a pandemic means the pandemic is somehow not deadly.

    Got it.

    I'm not sure there's any debating that kind of 'logic'.

    Extra? Ireland is in line to have no excess deaths in 2020. :confused:


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    #192
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Hunger kills 9m people a year. Including 2.5m little children. Covid is a minor bug in comparison.

    Where's the lockdown for that?


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    #193
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Hunger kills 9m people a year. Including 2.5m little children. Covid is a minor bug in comparison.

    Is it a "minor bug" because of massive levels of restrictions globally or is it a minor bug because it's a minor bug?


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    #194
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Hunger kills 9m people a year. Including 2.5m little children. Covid is a minor bug in comparison.

    lol.

    Quick.

    Look.

    Over There

    At that other thing.


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    #195
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I'd friends like this, calling me an idiot etc for going to the beach with beers during the summer. Few months later I meet him on the harbour with a bag of cans and got an apology for him going all Helen Lovejoy. More and more people are realising the risks are minimal. Once it reaches a tipping point, there is nothing the govt or the curtain twitchers can do.


    not gonna lie , back in feb/march when reading reports from abroad and then Italy. I thought the plague was coming .


    But once May and June kicked in a covid was here and that beautiful curve was flattened, it was clearly it wasn't in the same league as plague and the government were either clueless or something else that's I'm not privvy too is going on.


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    #196
    ThewhiteJesus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    i'll probably die of boredom if they don't reopen the pubs soon


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    #197
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Graham wrote: »
    Other than the whole million plus deaths things

    That's if you believe the official figures. How many of those dearhs would have happened anyway considering the average age of death of most people who died with covid is above that of the age of life expectancy in most countries.


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    #198
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    paw patrol wrote: »
    something else that's I'm not privvy too is going on.

    Must have been than sneaky hidden lockdown you missed.


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    #199
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    GT89 wrote: »
    That's if you believe the official figures. How many of those dearhs would have happened anyway considering the average age of death of most people who died with covid is above that of the age of life expectancy in most countries.

    Earlier poster gave you the figures for excess deaths in a few example countries.

    You should read it, it's informative.


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    #200
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    kippy wrote: »
    Is it a "minor bug" because of massive levels of restrictions globally or is it a minor bug because it's a minor bug?

    Well considering those "unlucky" enough to catch it have a 95%+ chance of survival, i'm gonna go with because it's a minor bug.

    WHO's best estimate says that over 780m people worldwide have been infected by Covid, we've just over 1m dead, vast majority at the end of their lives anyway.

    One think I've never seen mentioned or asked for in Ireland. I'd love to see the figure for how many of the elderly who died in Ireland were in palliative care or on an end of life programme pre-Covid.


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    #201
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    Graham wrote: »
    lol.

    Quick.

    Look.

    Over There

    At that other thing.


    well yes and why not?
    If we are ****ting the bed over covid , why not ask legitimately why don't we panic over other things with similar death rates.


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    #202
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Well considering those "unlucky" enough to catch it have a 95%+ chance of survival, i'm gonna go with because it's a minor bug.

    WHO's best estimate says that over 780m people worldwide have been infected by Covid, we've just over 1m dead, vast majority at the end of their lives anyway.

    So what happens if more people catch it.


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    #203
    ThewhiteJesus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    I've had to stop watching the news as it's pure doom and gloom, once the clocks go back and the darkness set's in suicides will go through the roof if they haven't already in my opinion.
    Social isolation is a killer


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    #204
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    It is estimated that the worlds population has increased by 1.05% during the course of the year 2020. Do you think that during the bubonic plague the world's population increased?


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    #205
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    GT89 wrote: »
    It is estimated that the worlds population has increased by 1.05% during the course of the year 2020. Do you think that during the bubonic plague the world's population increased?

    I'm fascinated now.

    There's obviously some hidden meaning behind this snacklet of statistics.

    What is it?


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    #206
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    kippy wrote: »
    So what happens if more people catch it.

    Will they even know they have it if they do catch it??


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    #207
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Graham wrote: »
    Earlier poster gave you the figures for excess deaths in a few example countries.

    You should read it, it's informative.

    Excess deaths are not relevant when the worlds population is increasing anyway. They are being replaced.


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    #208
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    GT89 wrote: »
    Excess deaths are not relevant when the worlds population is increasing anyway. They are being replaced.

    Interesting approach

    You're essentially suggesting f*** the dead people, we can make more.


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    #209
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    GT89 wrote: »
    Excess deaths are not relevant when the worlds population is increasing anyway. They are being replaced.

    What are you even trying to imply there? That people dying doesn't matter as long as they are being replaced?

    That's some ****ed up view tbh.


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    #210
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Will they even know they have it if they do catch it??

    Completely irrellivant tbh but it's one other reason why restrictions are in place......


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    #211
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Graham wrote: »
    Interesting approach

    You're essentially suggesting f*** the dead people, we can make more.

    That's shifting the goalposts excess deaths does not mean the health service will be overwhelmed which is the main argument behind lockdowns. Also would missed health screenings for things like strokes, heart diesease and cancer and increased suicides not have something to do with the excess deaths?

    Is this about keeping as many people alive as possible or preventing the health service from becoming overwhelmed for you?


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