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How would you feel if restrictions were lifted?

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    #242
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Graham wrote: »
    Not really because it would be a stupid argument. I'm not sure there's a specific strawman forum anywhere on boards, maybe have a search.

    FYI there are restrictions around the use of cars to reduce risks.

    Yet there are consistently road deaths. Maybe a car lockdown would work.

    Air pollution deaths plus RTAs almost kill as many as Covid has.

    In Ireland, the number of premature deaths attributable to air pollution is estimated at 1,180 people and is mainly due to cardiovascular disease. The WHO has described air pollution as the 'single biggest environmental health risk'.


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    #243
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    bladespin wrote: »
    Absolutely, but how many of theses deaths were actually preventable?

    See previous posts about excess deaths


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    #244
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Yet there are consistently road deaths. Maybe a car lockdown would work.

    Air pollution deaths plus RTAs almost kill as many as Covid has.

    In Ireland, the number of premature deaths attributable to air pollution is estimated at 1,180 people and is mainly due to cardiovascular disease. The WHO has described air pollution as the 'single biggest environmental health risk'.

    It's only a fair comparison if we were to look at deaths with NO lockdown.


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    #245
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Graham wrote: »
    FYI there are restrictions around the use of cars to reduce risks.

    Last time I checked people still died in car accidents despite the restrictions. Not good enough cars are a death trap and should be banned.


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    #246
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    GT89 wrote: »
    Last time I checked people still died in car accidents despite the restrictions. Not good enough cars are a dearh trap and should be banned.

    horse dead, stop flogging :)


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    #247
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    If you're the main breadwinner (for want of a better word) and you can't afford food, you'll be hungry, and you can be sure as hell that will soon spread rapidly to your family who you couldn't provide for.

    Jesus the whataboutery is getting evem more massive :pac:

    Wrong. You can't catch 'hunger' off the next person. But you can catch Covid whether you or they are 'hungry' or anything else

    The stupidity of such arguments is truely stupendous....


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    #248
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,978 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Yet there are consistently road deaths. Maybe a car lockdown would work.

    Air pollution deaths plus RTAs almost kill as many as Covid has.

    In Ireland, the number of premature deaths attributable to air pollution is estimated at 1,180 people and is mainly due to cardiovascular disease. The WHO has described air pollution as the 'single biggest environmental health risk'.

    I would be very worried if they allowed a "free for all" approach to driving cars. No speed limits, no seatbelts, no traffic corps, no driving licenses etc.

    As for the air pollution, two wrongs don't make a right. Ireland needs to get its **** together there, covid or no covid.


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    #249
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭ [Deleted User]


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    People die in public every day. Heart attacks, SADS, Brain bleeds, accidents. Death doesn't wait til you're in a hospital bed to take you.

    whooosh


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    #250
    moonage
    Registered Users Posts: 814 ✭✭✭moonage


    kippy wrote: »
    So what happens if more people catch it.

    Every "case" is a step closer to herd immunity.


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    #251
    Tork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭Tork


    That's if herd immunity actually exists for Coronavirus


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    #252
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    GT89 wrote: »
    People are gonna die either way. 95% of people including myself are suffering mental health effects of lockdown so if I'm suffering from mental health issues that I did not have before this panic started I would imagine people who had mental health problems anyway may have been sent over the edge to suicide even if they problems were under control beforehand.

    That's not to mention people who missed screenings for things like cancer, heart disease and strokes the real killers in Ireland. Do those people matter to you or is covid the only worth caring about to you?

    Sure if all the people that commit suicide or die from other diseases get replaced it doesnt matter to you anyway? What actually is your argument, you are all over the place.


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    #253
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Stark wrote: »
    I would be very worried if they allowed a "free for all" approach to driving cars. No speed limits, no seatbelts, no traffic corps, no driving licenses etc.

    But presumably you're comfortable with the fact that we haven't banned them outright, yes?

    Because then we've established the principle that some level of deaths is an acceptable price to pay for the activities we want to engage in, right?

    And so the replies amounting to 'without restrictions more people will die' and 'COVID-19 is contagious, car accidents are not' are not in and of themselves good arguments for restrictions, are they?


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    #254
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    stefanovich wrote: »
    It's only a fair comparison if we were to look at deaths with NO lockdown.

    Well in a car lockdown we can remove all RTA deaths. So that would be 148 more people alive last year if we’d stopped cars. 115 so far this year.


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    #255
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Well in a car lockdown we can remove all RTA deaths. So that would be 148 more people alive last year if we’d stopped cars. 115 so far this year.

    Still on this strawman?


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    #256
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Tork wrote: »
    That's if herd immunity actually exists for Coronavirus

    Amazing the small but vocal number latching on to the idea of "herd immunity' - with no idea what it actually means.
    Herd immunity is a concept used for vaccination, in which a population can be protected from a certain virus if a threshold of vaccination is reached. For example, herd immunity against measles requires about 95% of a population to be vaccinated...

    "Herd immunities are achieved by protecting people from a virus, not by exposing them to it. Never in the history of public health has herd immunity been used as a strategy for responding to an outbreak, let alone a pandemic. It's scientifically and ethically problematic,"

    https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1171168/


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    #257
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,542 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    I wonder do those still rambling about car accidents think everyone should have a drivers license and let people build a "herd immunity" to road fatalities?


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    #258
    smck321
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭smck321


    pjohnson wrote: »
    I wonder do those still rambling about car accidents think everyone should have a drivers license and let people build a "herd immunity" to road fatalities?

    I hit a cow with my car once, do I have herd immunity?


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    #259
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    smck321 wrote: »
    I hit a cow with my car once, do I have herd immunity?

    Did you have to go to ICMoo?


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    #260
    smck321
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭smck321


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Did you have to go to ICMoo?

    Yeah with an injury to my calf.


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    #261
    Tork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭Tork


    smck321 wrote: »
    I hit a cow with my car once, do I have herd immunity?

    Only if you had bullbars on the car.


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    #262
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Graham wrote: »
    See previous posts about excess deaths

    I think you misunderstood, yes, there was a spike in deaths early on (not so much now though), due to this virus but how many of those would have died had there been a mass outbreak of another more mundane virus like the flu?

    Btw, not advocating herd immunity just playing devil’s advocate.


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    #263
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    smck321 wrote: »
    I hit a cow with my car once, do I have herd immunity?

    No but you are now at an increased risk of mad cow.


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    #264
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,501 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Nermal wrote: »
    But presumably you're comfortable with the fact that we haven't banned them outright, yes?

    Because then we've established the principle that some level of deaths is an acceptable price to pay for the activities we want to engage in, right?

    And so the replies amounting to 'without restrictions more people will die' and 'COVID-19 is contagious, car accidents are not' are not in and of themselves good arguments for restrictions, are they?

    So what is your point then? We have established that some level of covid death is acceptable as well, given that some places like gyms and schools remain open. We have decided having them open is more important than minimising whatever they contribute to covid cases. If we hadnt considered it acceptable, we'd be on a constant level 5 and shutting everything that contributes to the spread whatsoever


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    #265
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Some of the attitude and logic displayed in here is beyond ridiculous.
    'People die every day, so what?'
    'People die of other things to'
    'We are all gonna die anyway of something'
    '95 percent of people have mental health issues as a result of this'

    If that's the overriding attitude shut the hospitals straight away, remove all funding for medical research and let's just let nature take its course because 'arent we all gonna die anyway'
    Fxcking nonsense stuff.

    I also have not doubt that there are people who have genuine mental health problems before this that are made worse by this and that there are people who have been struggling since this crisis came in but 95 percent?
    To say that is to not understand what mental illness actually is.


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    #266
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    GT89 wrote: »
    Last time I checked people still died in car accidents despite the restrictions. Not good enough cars are a death trap and should be banned.

    Same people with the same flawed arguments over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and


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    #267
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Sure if all the people that commit suicide or die from other diseases get replaced it doesnt matter to you anyway? What actually is your argument, you are all over the place.

    My main argument is there is no need for the riddiculous restrictions.


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    #268
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,501 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    GT89 wrote: »
    My main argument is there is no need for the riddiculous restrictions.

    And your argument has been pulled asunder numerous times

    Maybe some of the restrictions are OTT, but you're literally one of the only people I've ever heard of that thinks there should be no restrictions. You're very much out their on your own, even among those with extreme views in this regard


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    #269
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    GT89 wrote: »
    My main argument is there is no need for the riddiculous restrictions.

    And your basis for that is? You are really struggling to get any sort of coherent point across here.


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    #270
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,501 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    And your basis for that is? You are really struggling to get any sort of coherent point across here.

    Belarus seems to be the main gist of it..

    We should all aim to be more like Belarus..then life will be perfect. I can't say before this I've ever heard anyone say anything good about Belarus. But now...we're all wishing we lived in such a place so committed to safeguarding the liberties of it's citizens


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    #271
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Belarus seems to be the main gist of it..

    We should all aim to be more like Belarus..then life will be perfect. I can't say before this I've ever heard anyone say anything good about Belarus. But now...we're all wishing we lived in such a place so committed to safeguarding the liberties of it's citizens

    It's particularly funny picking Belarus considering who is currently "in charge" there and the evidence that that the COVID deaths there were significantly down played and underreported to suit his agenda.

    Not that I expect the OP to be aware of any political climate outside of their own head.


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