How long to fix boundary issue in land registry?

Annoyedseller

We are sale agreed on a house but have noticed on the land registry map that the current boundary between the house and neighbouring house is different than on the map. Both houses are owned by family and it looks as though they changed the layout years ago to make it a more sensible shape but obviously never changed the map. We are happy with the current layout and don't want it to be changed back but obviously want the map to reflect it. I'm assuming both parties will be happy to change the map.
Seller solicitor is currently 'looking into it' and my solicitor hasn't indicated a time line for resolution.
Would anyone be able to give me an approx time frame on when we should expect to have this resolved? Would it be possible to go ahead with the sale once the legal part of it has been sorted ie. both parties have signed to change it but the land registry hasn't completed their part? We're also sale agreed on our house and would like to sell and move in to new house asap.

nuac

Mod
Talk to your own solicitor

Annoyedseller

nuac wrote: »

Mod
Talk to your own solicitor

As I mentioned in my post, my Solicitor hasn't indicated how long it will take. They also didn't answer my question in relation to whether we could go ahead with the sale once both parties had agreed and it was with the land registry.
I was hoping that someone with experience of this might be able to give an indication but thanks for your helpful reply!

Lenar3556

If all parties are in agreement, and you are dealing with a minor mapping issue, this is usually pretty straightforward to rectify but it still takes time, particularly where there are changes to maps. I wouldn’t like to put a guess on it at the present time, but with a push you perhaps 6 weeks from end to end?

If there are lenders involved, their consent may be necessary and this is likely to give rise to further delay.

As regards closing the sale before the matter is resolved, this may be an option if you are a cash buyer, your solicitor will advise you on the level of risk arising. If you are purchasing the property with the aid of borrowings, it is unlikely the solicitor would be in a position to certify good title to the lender until this matter is fully resolved.

If it’s a house you are serious about purchasing you really need to discuss in detail with your solicitor the issues and best path forward. Like most things persistence pays off!

Good luck with it and hope all works out.

Annoyedseller

Lenar3556 wrote: »

If all parties are in agreement, and you are dealing with a minor mapping issue, this is usually pretty straightforward to rectify but it still takes time, particularly where there are changes to maps. I wouldn’t like to put a guess on it at the present time, but with a push you perhaps 6 weeks from end to end?

If there are lenders involved, their consent may be necessary and this is likely to give rise to further delay.

As regards closing the sale before the matter is resolved, this may be an option if you are a cash buyer, your solicitor will advise you on the level of risk arising. If you are purchasing the property with the aid of borrowings, it is unlikely the solicitor would be in a position to certify good title to the lender until this matter is fully resolved.

If it’s a house you are serious about purchasing you really need to discuss in detail with your solicitor the issues and best path forward. Like most things persistence pays off!

Good luck with it and hope all works out.

Thanks so much for your very detailed reply. 6 weeks wouldn't be too long to wait but we'll likely have to move out of our house and rent after the sale of our house as they are eager for a quick sale & I don't want it to fall through.

Unfortunately we're not cash buyers so it sounds like we'll have to wait until it's resolved before closing on the house. We really love the house and definitely want to buy it so I'm going to really push our solicitor from Monday. They've been very blasé about it so far and I almost feel like they think we're making a problem out of it!
It's so disappointing that the sellers didn't resolve this before they put the house up for sale as they've had 2 years dealing with probate etc.

salamiii

you can't get a loan until it's settled


It will therefore be necessary to engage a chartered geomatics surveyor. In addition to a detailed survey of the boundary features, the surveyor’s brief should include the preparation of a map which clearly indicates the areas of the individual plots created by the conflicting boundary alignments.It may be feasible to exchange plots with some of the adjoining property owners by means of deeds of rectification.will take about 6 months

Annoyedseller

salamiii wrote: »

you can't get a loan until it's settled


It will therefore be necessary to engage a chartered geomatics surveyor. In addition to a detailed survey of the boundary features, the surveyor’s brief should include the preparation of a map which clearly indicates the areas of the individual plots created by the conflicting boundary alignments.It may be feasible to exchange plots with some of the adjoining property owners by means of deeds of rectification.will take about 6 months

Thanks for your reply. Do you mean the whole process could take 6 months before buying the house? Or just the deeds of rectification part?

Peregrinus

Lenar3556 wrote: »

If all parties are in agreement, and you are dealing with a minor mapping issue, this is usually pretty straightforward to rectify but it still takes time, particularly where there are changes to maps . . .

From the OP, this is not a "minor mapping issue". It seems the maps in the registry are correct; it is the boundary markers on the ground (I presume, fences) which are misleading.

The quick fix to this is to move the boundary markers so that they run along what is in fact the boundary. But that is not what the OP wants; he wants to buy the area of land currently enclosed within the boundary markers.

Let's suppose that we have property A and, immediately beside it, property B. The fence between the properties doesn not run alon the boundary; it lies inside (let's say) property B, so anybody looking at property A and assuming that the fence marks the boundary will think that property A includes some land that is in fact part of property B.

So the OP wants to buy property A plus part of property B. That's a more complex transaction than the one he thought he was entering into - how much more complex we cannot say, because facts will need to be investigated - e.g. is there a mortgage over property B? So I don't think we have anything like enough information to say what might be involved in sorting this out or how long it might take. The purchaser's solicitor is better positioned to answer the question, but the answer requires investigation and it might not be an easy answer to give. There's also scope for a row about who is going to bear the (likely non-trivial) costs of sorting this out.

Annoyedseller

Peregrinus wrote: »

From the OP, this is not a "minor mapping issue". It seems the maps in the registry are correct; it is the boundary markers on the ground (I presume, fences) which are misleading.

The quick fix to this is to move the boundary markers so that they run along what is in fact the boundary. But that is not what the OP wants; he wants to buy the area of land currently enclosed within the boundary markers.

Let's suppose that we have property A and, immediately beside it, property B. The fence between the properties doesn not run alon the boundary; it lies inside (let's say) property B, so anybody looking at property A and assuming that the fence marks the boundary will think that property A includes some land that is in fact part of property B.

So the OP wants to buy property A plus part of property B. That's a more complex transaction than the one he thought he was entering into - how much more complex we cannot say, because facts will need to be investigated - e.g. is there a mortgage over property B? So I don't think we have anything like enough information to say what might be involved in sorting this out or how long it might take. The purchaser's solicitor is better positioned to answer the question, but the answer requires investigation and it might not be an easy answer to give. There's also scope for a row about who is going to bear the (likely non-trivial) costs of sorting this out.

Thanks for your reply. Both parties gained from the change in the layout - house we're buying gained a bit extra at the side of the house whereas the house next door gained at the end of garden. Next door probably gained more aesthetically as a triangular shaped piece of the house we're buying essentially went behind their garden but that was squared off and both gardens have a square shape now. It's a funny shape on the map but the current layout makes more sense.
We would be happy if it was changed back to the way its supposed to be as per the map, if it meant that the sale would be straight forward however I'm not sure the other house would agree to this.

Peregrinus

Annoyedseller wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. Both parties gained from the change in the layout - house we're buying gained a bit extra at the side of the house whereas the house next door gained at the end of garden. Next door probably gained more aesthetically as a triangular shaped piece of the house we're buying essentially went behind their garden but that was squared off and both gardens have a square shape now. It's a funny shape on the map but the current layout makes more sense.
We would be happy if it was changed back to the way its supposed to be as per the map, if it meant that the sale would be straight forward however I'm not sure the other house would agree to this.

If the owners of the other house are the same people who are trying to sell a house to you, then you are in a position to encourage them to change their mind about the shape of the garden.

Annoyedseller

Peregrinus wrote: »

If the owners of the other house are the same people who are trying to sell a house to you, then you are in a position to encourage them to change their mind about the shape of the garden.

Not the same people unfortunately. They are aunt & uncle of the people selling and I've no idea if the relationship is a good one or not. They've made a good few changes to the bottom of the garden and I'm not sure they'd be happy to give it up. It is something I'm going to suggest though.
In your opinion, if both parties agree to change the map to the current layout what time frame would we be looking at?

Marcusm

Annoyedseller wrote: »

Not the same people unfortunately. They are aunt & uncle of the people selling and I've no idea if the relationship is a good one or not. They've made a good few changes to the bottom of the garden and I'm not sure they'd be happy to give it up. It is something I'm going to suggest though.
In your opinion, if both parties agree to change the map to the current layout what time frame would we be looking at?

It’s not about changing the map; it’s about the owners of both folios agreeing to sell and/or exchange land between them. If you think about it, that is the process which you are going through to buy the house. However, if both properties are mortgages then the transfer is likely ineffective without the consent of both mortgagees (ie the banks).

Annoyedseller

Marcusm wrote: »

It’s not about changing the map; it’s about the owners of both folios agreeing to sell and/or exchange land between them. If you think about it, that is the process which you are going through to buy the house. However, if both properties are mortgages then the transfer is likely ineffective without the consent of both mortgagees (ie the banks).

Yes that's true and I do understand that it's not as simple as just changing the map. I suppose I just presume that they were happy years ago to change the layout so it seems like it could be an 'easy' exchange of signing over both pieces of land. I'm trying to be foolishly optimistic here!
No mortgages involved - the house we're buying has gone through probate and is being sold by the children of the deceased owner & the owners of the property next door are in their 70's.

Peregrinus

What you've got is a non-standard property transfer - the owners of Property A transfer a little bit of Property A to the owners of Property B, not in exchange for money as is usual but in exchange for a little bit of Property B. So, two transfers, strictly speaking. The technicalities of each transfer are broadly the same as they would be for any property transfer - it makes little difference that the areas being transferred are comparatively small. The tax/stamp duty implications need to be worked out. And of course the question of who is going to pay the legal and registration fees for the transfers will raise its ugly head at an early stage.

Suppose the parties had done what they ought to have done at the time the boundary marker was moved. "Hey! Why don't we transfer that that corner over there to you, and you transfer this corner to us? You think that's a good idea? Great! Lets get our solicitors onto it!" But, now, it has to be done under pressure, and people may feel they are being railroaded into something; sometimes people dig their heels in when they feel that. My guess is that the biggest factor in determining how long it will take will be the money; what is it going to cost to sort this out and who is going to pay for it?

Bottom line; it is possible that this will get sorted out at no cost to you, quickly and amicably. But I wouldn't be wildly optimistic.

Lenar3556

Annoyedseller wrote: »

Yes that's true and I do understand that it's not as simple as just changing the map. I suppose I just presume that they were happy years ago to change the layout so it seems like it could be an 'easy' exchange of signing over both pieces of land. I'm trying to be foolishly optimistic here!
No mortgages involved - the house we're buying has gone through probate and is being sold by the children of the deceased owner & the owners of the property next door are in their 70's.

It is of benefit that there is less likely to be lenders involved. The venders solicitor would be best placed to identify the solution, including if there was an informal transfer of lands between parties at a point in the past? or were both plots always intended to be as they are, and the extent of the current issue is that the relevant maps do not match the true position.

limos

How long did it take in the end I am having the same problem we have all agreed and signed paper work but my lender is taking for ever to agree after receiving all documents requested, it has been a year now waiting for an answer from them.

Annoyedseller

Funny you should ask this question as this has only just been completed in the last month for us! 22 months after I posted this!!

We went ahead with the purchase prior to it being rectified on the recommendation from our new solicitor* and the vendor agreeing that they would undertake to ensure the Deed of Rectification (DOR) went through. This went in before we finalised the sale. I can't answer your question about the lender as I don't think our solicitor informed our lender of the DOR. He was happy with the undertaking from the vendor solicitor (long working history together).

*we changed solicitor for the purchase of the house due to issues with our old solicitor&the sale of our previous property