Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Exit Strategy

Options
12467…14

Comments

  • Options
    #92
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Local Area Man wrote: »
    I don't have an issue with periods of tighter restrictions to suppress the case load for hospitals, followed by an easing of restrictions and so forth. To me that's living with the virus.

    I don't think we can expect a zero covid scenario given the internal border on the island and our membership of the EU.

    It's not living with the virus if businesses have to shut. I think our government knows this and a second lockdown or severe restrictions will be disastrous and there's no going back. But then we can't have people getting sick, putting pressure on the hospitals where they can't cope and that having knock-on affects with other healthcare issues.


  • Options
    #93
    haskellgeek
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭haskellgeek


    eleventh wrote: »
    One of Europe’s Leading Neurologists Claims Masks Are Dangerous & Explains Why

    https://www.collective-evolution.com/2020/10/07/one-of-europes-leading-neurologists-claims-masks-are-dangerous-explains-why/

    All of that piece is her opinion and no actual data or anything that anyone else can verify or refute.


  • Options
    #94
    Local Area Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Local Area Man


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    It's not living with the virus if businesses have to shut. I think our government knows this and a second lockdown or severe restrictions will be disastrous and there's no going back. But then we can't have people getting sick, putting pressure on the hospitals where they can't cope and that having knock-on affects with other healthcare issues.

    I cannot fathom why we didn't build up our ICU capacity over the last 6 months, that to me has been a massive failure of government.

    I think many business's have shouldered the blame for the increase in the virus but it seems that the majority of the cases are stemming from household visits.


  • Options
    #95
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    El Sueño wrote: »
    Unless there's some actual enforcement of restrictions there is no exit strategy other than a vaccine

    And everyone would have to take it.


  • Options
    #96
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,358 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Local Area Man wrote: »
    I cannot fathom why we didn't build up our ICU capacity over the last 6 months, that to me has been a massive failure of government.
    .

    To me, that this is even an issue is a symptom of a more fundamental failure. Surely we should be looking to create a situation that the numbers who need intensive care due to covid are very low.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #97
    greenfield21
    Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    To me, that this is even an issue is a symptom of a more fundamental failure. Surely we should be looking to create a situation that the numbers who need intensive care due to covid are very low.

    Wow, another excellent contribution. Where have you been the last nine months.


  • Options
    #98
    rob316
    Registered Users Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Rodin wrote: »
    The short-term thinking from many is astounding.

    We already had this thing beaten. But it was the coming out of lockdown was the issue. We don't have a strategy for that.

    NZ aren't crying about closing/opening schools. They aren't worrying about pubs/restaurants being closed and jobs losses. They don't worry about longterm mental health issues with repeated lockdowns.

    They took the big decision because Jacinda has foresight. And she's been proven right.

    Nobody should leave an airport in this country without being quarantined for 2 weeks at their own expense.

    It's a country in the middle of nowhere, it doesn't have a border of another country running through it, it's not part of a border free travel area with another 26 countries.

    Honestly it's like talking to wall with people championing zero covid.


  • Options
    #99
    Hobgoblin11
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11


    its the winter coldness that forces people inside to gather indoors that spreads the virus, 6 weeks?, more like 6 months lockdown until March

    Dundalk, Co. Louth



  • Options
    #100
    eleventh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭eleventh


    eleventh wrote: »
    One of Europe’s Leading Neurologists Claims Masks Are Dangerous & Explains Why

    https://www.collective-evolution.com/2020/10/07/one-of-europes-leading-neurologists-claims-masks-are-dangerous-explains-why/
    haskellgeek wrote: »
    All of that piece is her opinion and no actual data or anything that anyone else can verify or refute.
    It's not just someone's opinion. She is one of the leading experts in the relevant fields that deal directly with brain and environment:
    Dr Margareta Griesz-Brisson MD, PhD, is one of Europe's leading consultant neurologists who is based on Harley Street in London. She is the Medical Director of The London Neurology & Pain Clinic, where she currently sees patients.

    She specialises in neurology, neuro-regeneration, neuroplasticity, neurotoxicology, environmental medicine and pain management. The uniqueness of this clinic is the working philosophy which is based exclusively on physiological methods based on support and biology, rather than on suppression and pharmacotherapy.

    Dr Griesz-Brisson is a member of the American Academy of Neurology, European Federation of Neurological Societies, European Academy of Environmental Medicine, and many others. She also consistently serves as a medico-legal expert in the United Kingdom, Norway, Germany, Switzerland and the United States.
    https://www.topdoctors.co.uk/doctor/margareta-griesz-brisson


  • Options
    #101
    Local Area Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Local Area Man


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    To me, that this is even an issue is a symptom of a more fundamental failure. Surely we should be looking to create a situation that the numbers who need intensive care due to covid are very low.

    Can you keep the numbers low and prevent the economy from collapsing? I'm not so sure. I think the government should have foreseen that allowing society to return to "normality" would have resulted in the situation we find ourselves in now. I would have expected we would be better placed to deal with the increase in hospitalisations, which was always likely to happen.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #102
    haskellgeek
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭haskellgeek


    eleventh wrote: »
    It's not just someone's opinion. She is one of the leading experts in the relevant fields that deal directly with brain and environment:
    Dr Margareta Griesz-Brisson MD, PhD, is one of Europe's leading consultant neurologists who is based on Harley Street in London. She is the Medical Director of The London Neurology & Pain Clinic, where she currently sees patients.

    She specialises in neurology, neuro-regeneration, neuroplasticity, neurotoxicology, environmental medicine and pain management. The uniqueness of this clinic is the working philosophy which is based exclusively on physiological methods based on support and biology, rather than on suppression and pharmacotherapy.

    Dr Griesz-Brisson is a member of the American Academy of Neurology, European Federation of Neurological Societies, European Academy of Environmental Medicine, and many others. She also consistently serves as a medico-legal expert in the United Kingdom, Norway, Germany, Switzerland and the United States.
    https://www.topdoctors.co.uk/doctor/margareta-griesz-brisson

    So where is the paper who peer reviwed it? Litterally as useless as anyone else's opinion.


  • Options
    #103
    pgj2015
    Registered Users Posts: 9,197 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Local Area Man wrote: »
    If a functional vaccine isn't developed, where does that leave New Zealand in the longer term? Isolated from the rest of the world indefinitely? I'd imagine their economy won't last long in that scenario.




    Ireland was doing really well with the staycations,money was being spent here that never was before (Irish people who never holiday in Ireland had to) hotels, boat rentals, bars, shops etc did a great trade, imagine if we had no covid on the island and could go to football matches, gigs, nightclubs etc. we would have been ok for even a year until a vaccine or treatments enabled us to get back to normal.


  • Options
    #104
    eleventh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭eleventh


    The rebreathing of our exhaled air will without a doubt create oxygen deficiency and a flooding of carbon dioxide. We know that the human brain is very sensitive to oxygen depravation. There are nerve cells for example in the hippocampus, that can’t be longer than 3 minutes without oxygen – they cannot survive. The acute warning symptoms are headaches, drowsiness, dizziness, issues in concentration, slowing down of the reaction time – reactions of the cognitive system.

    However, when you have chronic oxygen depravation, all of those symptoms disappear, because you get used to it. But your efficiency will remain impaired and the undersupply of oxygen in your brain continues to progress.

    We know that neurodegenerative diseases take years to decades to develop. If today you forget your phone number, the breakdown in your brain would have already started 20 or 30 years ago.

    While you’re thinking, that you have gotten used to wearing your mask and rebreathing your own exhaled air, the degenerative processes in your brain are getting amplified as your oxygen deprivation continues

    The second problem is that the nerve cells in your brain are unable to divide themselves normally. So in case our governments will generously allow as to get rid of the masks and go back to breathing oxygen freely again in a few months, the lost nerve cells will no longer be regenerated. What is gone is gone.

    [..]I do not wear a mask, I need my brain to think. I want to have a clear head when I deal with my patients, and not be in a carbon dioxide induced anaesthesia.

    [..]There is no unfounded medical exemption from face masks because oxygen deprivation is dangerous for every single brain. It must be the free decision of every human being whether they want to wear a mask that is absolutely ineffective to protect themselves from a virus.

    For children and adolescents, masks are an absolute no-no. Children and adolescents have an extremely active and adaptive immune system and they need a constant interaction with the microbiome of the Earth. Their brain is also incredibly active, as it is has so much to learn. The child’s brain, or the youth’s brain is thirsting for oxygen. The more metabolically active the organ is, the more oxygen it requires. In children and adolescents every organ is metabolically active.

    To deprive a child’s or an adolescent’s brain from oxygen, or to restrict it in any way, is not only dangerous to their health, it is absolutely criminal. Oxygen deficiency inhibits the development of the brain, and the damage that has taken place as a result CANNOT be reversed.

    The child needs the brain to learn, and the brain needs oxygen to function. We don’t need a clinical study for that. This is simple, indisputable physiology. Conscious and purposely induced oxygen deficiency is an absolutely deliberate health hazard, and an absolute medical contraindication.

    An absolute medical contraindication in medicine means that this drug, this therapy, this method or measure should not be used – is not allowed to be used. To coerce an entire population to use an absolute medical contraindication by force, there must be definite and serious reasons for this, and the reasons must be presented to competent interdisciplinary and independent bodies to be verified and authorised.

    When in ten years, dementia is going to increase exponentially, and the younger generations couldn’t reach their god-given potential, it won’t help to say “we didn’t need the masks”.

    [..]How can a veterinarian, a software distributer, a business man, an electrical car manufacturer and a physicist decided on matters regarding the health of the entire population? Please dear colleagues, we all have to wake up.

    I know how damaging oxygen depravation is for the brain, cardiologist knows it for the heart, the pulmonologist knows it for the lungs. Oxygen deprivation damages every single organ.

    Where are our health departments, our health insurance, our medical associations? It would have been their duty to be vehemently against the lockdown and to stop it and stop it from the very beginning.

    Why do the medical boards give punishments to doctors who give people exemptions? Does the person or the doctor seriously have to prove that oxygen depravation harms people? What kind of medicine are our doctors and medical associations representing?

    Who is responsible for this crime? The ones who want to enforce it? The ones who let it happen and play along, or the ones who don’t prevent it?[..]It’s not about masks, it’s not about viruses, it’s certainly not about your health. It is about much much more. I am not participating. I am not afraid.

    [..]You can notice, they are already taking our air to breathe.

    The imperative of the hour is personal responsibility.

    We are responsible for what we think, not the media. We are responsible for what we do, not our superiors. We are responsible for our health, not the World Health Organisation. And we are responsible for what happens in our country, not the government.”
    It's not an academic paper. The speaker of the above (who has several academic qualifications,as stated above) is sharing her professional opinion to reach the public.

    Another link to the transcript:
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-...-abuse/5726059
    Share widely please if you care about people's health.


  • Options
    #105
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,715 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eleventh wrote: »
    One of Europe’s Leading Neurologists Claims Masks Are Dangerous & Explains Why

    https://www.collective-evolution.com/2020/10/07/one-of-europes-leading-neurologists-claims-masks-are-dangerous-explains-why/

    Looks like a legit news source :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #106
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,715 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eleventh wrote: »
    The rebreathing of our exhaled air will without a doubt create oxygen deficiency and a flooding of carbon dioxide. We know that the human brain is very sensitive to oxygen depravation. There are nerve cells for example in the hippocampus, that can’t be longer than 3 minutes without oxygen – they cannot survive. The acute warning symptoms are headaches, drowsiness, dizziness, issues in concentration, slowing down of the reaction time – reactions of the cognitive system.

    .

    I won’t even read past the start where it’s back talking nonsense about masks reducing oxygen levels. This myth has been disproven multiple times, not that it even needed to be as it’s obviously nonsense.

    People wear masks all day long for decades in their jobs and you didn’t hear them suffering from lack of oxygen.

    Keep this rubbish to Facebook where it’s fake news filter will flag it as such and no one will have to read it.


  • Options
    #107
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    Multipass wrote: »
    What world are you living in? We had nothing beaten, we hid away for a while, you can’t stay locked down forever. It was always going to spike afterwards, remember ‘flattening the curve’?

    We won't need to stay locked down forever.
    That's the point.


  • Options
    #108
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    rob316 wrote: »
    It's a country in the middle of nowhere, it doesn't have a border of another country running through it, it's not part of a border free travel area with another 26 countries.

    Honestly it's like talking to wall with people championing zero covid.

    The northerners will get on board.
    Already precedent within the UK where Wales is banning people from certain parts of England.


  • Options
    #109
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    Hobgoblin11 wrote: »
    its the winter coldness that forces people inside to gather indoors that spreads the virus, 6 weeks?, more like 6 months lockdown until March

    The virus is only spread if someone has it.

    I think some people believe it emerges spontaneously once a group of people gather in an enclosed space.


  • Options
    #110
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    rob316 wrote: »
    It's a country in the middle of nowhere, it doesn't have a border of another country running through it, it's not part of a border free travel area with another 26 countries.

    Honestly it's like talking to wall with people championing zero covid.

    Border free travel area with 26 countries?
    There's a big bloody pond seperating it from every other EU country!


  • Options
    #111
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    Local Area Man wrote: »
    If a functional vaccine isn't developed, where does that leave New Zealand in the longer term? Isolated from the rest of the world indefinitely? I'd imagine their economy won't last long in that scenario.

    Whereas we, instead of collecting taxes are just putting it all on the social welfare tab. All this spending will have to be reclaimed at some point.

    Short term pain is required now for long-term gain.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #112
    wanderer 22
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭wanderer 22


    eleventh wrote: »
    One of Europe’s Leading Neurologists Claims Masks Are Dangerous & Explains Why

    https://www.collective-evolution.com/2020/10/07/one-of-europes-leading-neurologists-claims-masks-are-dangerous-explains-why/

    For one of Europe's leading neurologists it's odd she has written only one peer-reviewed paper (and that from 14 years ago and has never been cited).

    https://www.scopus.com/record/display.uri?eid=2-s2.0-33749256644&origin=resultslist


  • Options
    #113
    eleventh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭eleventh


    Erick Sweet Gourd wrote: »
    I won’t even read past the start ...
    No-one asked you to. The post is for people interested in people's health.


  • Options
    #114
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,358 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Rodin wrote: »
    We won't need to stay locked down forever.
    That's the point.

    Well nothing is forever. But I fear some aspects of Irish society may need to stay shuttered until we get an effective vaccine.


  • Options
    #115
    Hobgoblin11
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11


    Rodin wrote: »
    The virus is only spread if someone has it.

    I think some people believe it emerges spontaneously once a group of people gather in an enclosed space.

    the virus is in the community, you may have once believed it just arrives by osmosis, we didn't

    Dundalk, Co. Louth



  • Options
    #116
    GazzaL
    Registered Users Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭GazzaL


    Local Area Man wrote: »
    I cannot fathom why we didn't build up our ICU capacity over the last 6 months, that to me has been a massive failure of government.

    I think many business's have shouldered the blame for the increase in the virus but it seems that the majority of the cases are stemming from household visits.

    It's madness that they're attempting to force businesses to close when they are not the problem.


  • Options
    #117
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    I suppose the fundamental question I'm posing in this thread is whether it's possible to 'open things up' in such a way that covid cases won't spike, or will spike in a manageable way.
    Things need to be opened up in a way that still keeps people in smallish circles, so although they are mixing, it is with the same people. For instance my nieces' nursery kept people in "pods" with a maximum of 3-4 families rather than allowing free-for-all mixing. Maybe restrictions like requiring people who do not live or work in Dublin city centre to show proof that they have been doing essential shopping.


  • Options
    #118
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,715 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eleventh wrote: »
    No-one asked you to. The post is for people interested in people's health.

    It’s absolute nonsense from start to finish, absolute fake made up rubbish that shouldn’t be allowed to be circulated as some fools might believe it.


  • Options
    #119
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    rahmalec wrote: »
    I say go for zero COVID. At least then I will be able to do my job (events industry).

    Alternatively remove all restrictions let the kung flu loose and you'll go to work without issue


  • Options
    #120
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    GT89 wrote: »
    Alternatively remove all restrictions let the kung flu loose and you'll go to work without issue

    Trump, is that you?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #121
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Trump, is that you?

    He's gonna win big


Advertisement