Exit Strategy

Thats me

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, a month or so into the Covid pandemic (longer re: China etc). Point?

Point??? This blah-blah-blah was published 2+ weeks before Ireland reached peak of death rate. Since that time there was 6+ months of intesive investigations. I'd say the movie little bit obsolete now.

Thats me

Thats me wrote: »

Point??? This blah-blah-blah was published 2+ weeks before Ireland reached peak of death rate. Since that time there was 6+ months of intesive investigations. I'd say the movie little bit obsolete now.

Put down the Internet, would ya

hmmm

I can't believe people are still pushing HCQ. It was a good idea at the time to test it, it has been thoroughly trialed and found to be ineffective. Worse than that, it may actually make Covid worse for some patients. That's how good science works - through randomised trials, and not through blog posts.

https://www.recoverytrial.net/news/statement-from-the-chief-investigators-of-the-randomised-evaluation-of-covid-19-therapy-recovery-trial-on-hydroxychloroquine-5-june-2020-no-clinical-benefit-from-use-of-hydroxychloroquine-in-hospitalised-patients-with-covid-19

end of the road

moonage wrote: »

Because there's no money to be made from hydroxychloroquine, even if it is effective.

you think?
sure, i know governments can be capable of all sorts, but when i follow this whole claim through it just doesn't stack up when we look at everything.
on the one hand people are claiming our economy is finished because of minimal restrictions, yet people are claiming that the governments are preventing use of a specific treatment so as to hold out for a vaccine so big pharma can make money which we would only receive a proportion of, which would not come anywhere what it is claimed we have lost.
as i said, governments are capable of all sorts but this doesn't really make any logical sense.
the fact is hydroxychloroquine is not an effective treatment for covid hence it is not being used by most countries, if it was effective it would be used.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

I can't believe people are still pushing HCQ. It was a good idea at the time to test it, it has been thoroughly trialed and found to be ineffective. Worse than that, it may actually make Covid worse for some patients. That's how good science works - through randomised trials, and not through blog posts.

You cannot dismiss lots of Doctors going on record to say they have successfully and consistently treated patients for Covid using hydroxychloroquine/zinc/azithromycin.

Guess who funded that 'trial' in the UK you shared? The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. A common pattern. The same folk who'll be bringing you your vaccine, and in Bill's own words "a 20-1 return on investment" for him. That clip has been removed from YouTube a few days ago, along with anything else remotely going against the main narrative. Another video removed was of a female Doctor breaking down the components of his Moderna funded vaccine.

Each to their own anyway. I know what I will, or won't be taking. Best of luck and good health to you, regardless.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

You cannot dismiss lots of Doctors going on record to say they have successfully and consistently treated patients for Covid using hydroxychloroquine/zinc/azithromycin.

Guess who funded that 'trial' in the UK you shared? The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. A common pattern. The same folk who'll be bringing you your vaccine, and in Bill's own words "a 20-1 return on investment" for him. That clip has been removed from YouTube a few days ago, along with anything else remotely going against the main narrative. Another video removed was of a female Doctor breaking down the components of his Moderna funded vaccine.

Each to their own anyway. I know what I will, or won't be taking. Best of luck and good health to you, regardless.

If you don't take the vaccine s and have no contraindications, you are the reason that lockdowns will go on longer than necessary.

hmmm

Deleted User wrote: »

You cannot dismiss lots of Doctors going on record to say they have successfully and consistently treated patients for Covid using hydroxychloroquine/zinc/azithromycin.

Anecdotes are not evidence. We'd still be using leeches if that was the case.

We trial things, compare the drugs versus the placebo, and get definitive results. That's been done with HCQ in several studies.

Not even Trump was given HCQ which is the biggest tell of all, despite him promoting it.

end of the road

polesheep wrote: »

He has given NO evidence. He frequently posts things and makes claims that he cannot back up.

he has given plenty of evidence, it just doesn't suit your agenda which is your problem.
he backs up what he can where he can and if there is something he is unable to post information for due to confidentiality reasons he informs us of that fact.

Deleted User wrote: »

What "evidence" are you talking about? Here's more Doctors below saying hydroxychloroquine and zinc are successfully curing their patients. I can link endless other Doctors saying the same thing. Are they lying? I'll take their word from the field treating actual patients over whatever vague or funded "evidence" you're alluding to.

I hope you can understand this: Big pharma are the biggest lobby group of the US government. Those same interests are now primary financiers of the WHO, UN, and other European organizations who our EU governments take a lot of their recommendations from. What do you think these organizations are going to be pushing for?

Suppress cheap, effective treatments to make way for attempted global vaccination and the trillions it will make. Stop listening to the likes of RTE. Do your own research and connect the dots financially.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVs_EWVCVPc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfQg7XrvMJ8

i am well aware big pharma lobby, but realistically most aren't going to see these supposed trillions that are to be made (unlikely to be trillions in reality) . so as i said while government can be capable of all sorts, them banning what we know is an ineffective treatment and imposing restrictions on people, all in the aim of helping a couple of companies make "trillions" from a vaccine, which will require big expense to develop, and the profits of which the government won't see much of, is i'm afraid a little bit far fetched, because it makes no real logical sense.
i will keep listening to rte and plenty of other reliable sources as i have always done, as well as doing my own research, again which i have always done.

Rodin

hmmm wrote: »

Anecdotes are not evidence. We'd still be using leeches if that was the case.

We trial things, compare the drugs versus the placebo, and get definitive results. That's been done with HCQ in several studies.

Not even Trump was given HCQ which is the biggest tell of all, despite him promoting it.

We DO still use leeches...

Rodin

Rodin wrote: »

We DO still use leeches...

Only for improving blood flow in areas with poor blood circulation (ie peripheral small vascular disease). Limited use (with mountains of evidence/data behind it's use.)

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

If you don't take the vaccine s and have no contraindications, you are the reason that lockdowns will go on longer than necessary.

Nah, that won't be the reason. There'll be a massive amount of non-consent for this one. Covid isn't a risk to most of the population, and vaccines require years of testing to confirm safety. The fact that many of the vaccine developers are trying to get indemnity from side effects should tell you all you need to know.

Hard pass from me. You can have mine to be doubly safe :pac: Good luck, anyway.

hmmm

Rodin wrote: »

We DO still use leeches...

I never knew that

Rodin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Only for improving blood flow in areas with poor blood circulation (ie peripheral small vascular disease). Limited use (with mountains of evidence/data behind it's use.)

You forgot about lysing necrotic tissue.
The point still stands though. They are used.

fenris

In fairness the whole "Exit Strategy" discussion is just PR spin to give an illusion of control, the phrase wasn't in the public domain until a couple of day ago, so it is more a political construct than a real public health concept.
The real question is why wasn't the time over the last few months used constructively to build up the health service capability and how is that going to be rectified? Ciara Kelly was on the money earlier with her comments regarding lockdowns being used for a purpose rather than to simply push the numbers down from politically embarrassing levels, otherwise it is the same again every 2 months.

hmmm

Rodin wrote: »

You forgot about lysing necrotic tissue.
The point still stands though. They are used.

Not really (the point).

I'm assuming that medical trials have been carried out with these leeches, so we know that they are providing a benefit.

We don't just rely on "Dr xyz" on Twitter who is using Leeches and Fox urine to treat patients and has declared it to be effective.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

i will keep listening to rte and plenty of other reliable sources as i have always done

That's your problem right there, friend Thankfully the response to their recent "Truth Matters" campaign was overwhelmingly negative and mocking. People have finally copped on. I suggest you do the same; RTE isn't fit for purpose

Good luck, anyway.

Loafing Oaf

fenris wrote: »

In fairness the whole "Exit Strategy" discussion is just PR spin to give an illusion of control, the phrase wasn't in the public domain until a couple of day ago, so it is more a political construct than a real public health concept.
The real question is why wasn't the time over the last few months used constructively to build up the health service capability and how is that going to be rectified?

I believe potential strain on the health service is only a symptom of the fundamental problem. For me the 'real question' is once we have (hopefully) suppressed case numbers through lockdown, how we keep them at a low level, in which scenario issues like the number of ICU beds become moot. Yesterday's announcement gave no clear idea of how the government intends to achieve this, and gave me the impression the 'plan' is to open everything up and let the virus run rampant over Christmas, inevitably necessitating another lockdown early in the New Year.

hmmm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I believe potential strain on the health service is only a symptom of the fundamental problem. For me the 'real question' is once we have (hopefully) suppressed case numbers through lockdown, how we keep them at a low level, in which scenario issues like the number of ICU beds become moot. Yesterday's announcement gave no clear idea of how the government intends to achieve this, and gave me the impression the 'plan' is to open everything up and let the virus run rampant over Christmas, inevitably necessitating another lockdown early in the New Year.

There were reports in the media that we'd be returning to Level 3 at the conclusion of this. So outdoor dining etc only.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

That's your problem right there, friend Thankfully the response to their recent "Truth Matters" campaign was overwhelmingly negative and mocking. People have finally copped on. I suggest you do the same; RTE isn't fit for purpose

Good luck, anyway.

the response to their truth matters campaign has actually been overwhelmingly favourable from everything i have saw.
sure, the few usual types have gone on their instant rager but very few listen to them anyway.

speckle

relative offered maggots for dead tissue removal from a wound .Fascinating stuff. Tallagt Hospital.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

the response to their truth matters campaign has actually been overwhelmingly favourable from everything i have saw.
sure, the few usual types have gone on their instant rager but very few listen to them anyway.

Ok, look. I've seen you post quite a bit on boards, and I've noticed people generally don't agree with you. That's fine; you're entitled to your own opinion, and I've never seen you be disrespectful to anyone whilst posting. That said, below are the first two pages of replies to the advert in question (ie top ranked) from a week or so ago, after it went up on Facebook. RTE have also removed all comments and likes/dislikes from the ads on Youtube, due to the same negative reaction. Claiming "the response to the campaign has actually been overwhelmingly favourable" proves that you are either trying to lie to others, or more likely, lying to yourself.

There's enough fake and agenda driven news out there already. You'll never get the truth if you're in denial to begin with.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok, look. I've seen you post quite a bit on boards, and I've noticed people generally don't agree with you. That's fine; you're entitled to your own opinion, and I've never seen you be disrespectful to anyone whilst posting. That said, below are the first two pages of replies to the advert in question (ie top ranked) from a week or so ago, after it went up on Facebook. RTE have also removed all comments and likes/dislikes from the ads on Youtube, due to the same negative reaction. Claiming "the response to the campaign has actually been overwhelmingly favourable" proves that you are either trying to lie to others, or more likely, lying to yourself.

There's enough fake and agenda driven news out there already. You'll never get the truth if you're in denial to begin with.

in fairness youtube comments sections and facebook are a magnet for people looking to be outraged and offended over anything, or to go on a windup etc.
i generally wouldn't use either to judge the quality of anything.
believe me i know fake news and lies when they come across my path and while absolutely rte has faults in terms of a lot of the programs they provide, mainly the ones considered as "entertainment" their news and current affairs coverage is reliable as is the bbc and a few other main stream sources.

polesheep

end of the road wrote: »

in fairness youtube comments sections and facebook are a magnet for people looking to be outraged and offended over anything, or to go on a windup etc.
i generally wouldn't use either to judge the quality of anything.
believe me i know fake news and lies when they come across my path and while absolutely rte has faults in terms of a lot of the programs they provide, mainly the ones considered as "entertainment" their news and current affairs coverage is reliable as is the bbc and a few other main stream sources.

Unfortunately they are not. I think you are falling into the trap of considering them to be good sources based on the truly awful sources that are out there. One has to do quite a bit of searching and cross-referencing to arrive at what one hopes is the unvarnished truth to any story in any media. As I said earlier, it's all a mess.

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Yesterday's announcement gave no clear idea of how the government intends to achieve this, and gave me the impression the 'plan' is to open everything up and let the virus run rampant over Christmas, inevitably necessitating another lockdown early in the New Year.

And Martin has tacitly conceded this:

Taoiseach Micheál Martin has predicted there may be a period where Ireland continues to go from higher to lower restriction levels and back again if coronavirus continues to spread.

:rolleyes:

end of the road

polesheep wrote: »

Unfortunately they are not. I think you are falling into the trap of considering them to be good sources based on the truly awful sources that are out there. One has to do quite a bit of searching and cross-referencing to arrive at what one hopes is the unvarnished truth to any story in any media. As I said earlier, it's all a mess.

they are very reliable and good sources.
i do lots of cross referencing and research on topics and the bbc and rte are generally backed up when the research is done.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

in fairness youtube comments sections and facebook are a magnet for people looking to be outraged and offended over anything, or to go on a windup etc.
i generally wouldn't use either to judge the quality of anything.

Facebook and Youtube are two of the biggest platforms on the internet for people to voice their opinions. Even then, undesired comments are often censored. I don't know where else you're seeing these "highly favourable responses" you mentioned.

end of the road wrote: »

believe me i know fake news and lies when they come across my path and while absolutely rte has faults in terms of a lot of the programs they provide, mainly the ones considered as "entertainment" their news and current affairs coverage is reliable as is the bbc and a few other main stream sources.

RTE is funded by the Irish government (via the taxpayer, whether we like it or not). The BBC is also funded in the same way, along with donations from the likes of the UN, Gates Foundation, and European Commission. As long as you understand, the news you're receiving comes through the filter of these governments and their funders. You cannot consider that completely objective or reliable. As I said before, just don't bulls**t yourself.

froog

so what is the alternative to lockdowns? i'm genuinely all ears. as i'm sure politicians and NPHET would be too.

there's one caveat - you can't collapse the health system. which will lead to many more deaths from lack of healthcare on top of the COVID deaths. this is simply not an option.

Coillte_Bhoy

froog wrote: »

so what is the alternative to lockdowns? i'm genuinely all ears. as i'm sure politicians and NPHET would be too.

there's one caveat - you can't collapse the health system. which will lead to many more deaths from lack of healthcare on top of the COVID deaths. this is simply not an option.

Thanks, thats good to know :rolleyes:

mikekerry

froog wrote: »

so what is the alternative to lockdowns? i'm genuinely all ears. as i'm sure politicians and NPHET would be too.

there's one caveat - you can't collapse the health system. which will lead to many more deaths from lack of healthcare on top of the COVID deaths. this is simply not an option.

Collapsing the economy is, also not a good idea.
No economy = no health system.
There are plenty of alternatives to lockdowns it just requires a bit of planning and intelligence.
Neither of those attributes are in supply with this goverment

Thierry12

froog wrote: »

so what is the alternative to lockdowns? i'm genuinely all ears. as i'm sure politicians and NPHET would be too.

there's one caveat - you can't collapse the health system. which will lead to many more deaths from lack of healthcare on top of the COVID deaths. this is simply not an option.

Mass antigen testing

Close border and inbound travel to residents only

Test the whole country every 2 weeks and put infected in regional hotels forcefully, guarded by army or garda outside, no asking people to quarantine crap

Everyone has a PPS number, money taken out of payslips our social welfare etc if no show at drive-tru testing.

China style

Only way

froog

mikekerry wrote: »

Collapsing the economy is, also not a good idea.
No economy = no health system.
There are plenty of alternatives to lockdowns it just requires a bit of planning and intelligence.
Neither of those attributes are in supply with this goverment

like what?

Harry Palmr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

RTE is funded by the Irish government (via the taxpayer, whether we like it or not). The BBC is also funded in the same way, along with donations from the likes of the UN, Gates Foundation, and European Commission. As long as you understand, the news you're receiving comes through the filter of these governments and their funders. You cannot consider that completely objective or reliable. As I said before, just don't bulls**t yourself.

Just in case people think the above is Alt right nonsense you can see the breakdown of funding here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/about/funding

froog

Thierry12 wrote: »

Mass antigen testing

Close border and inbound travel to residents only

Test the whole country every 2 weeks and put infected in regional hotels forcefully, guarded by army or garda outside, no asking people to quarantine crap

Everyone has a PPS number, money taken out of payslips our social welfare etc if no show at drive-tru testing.

China style

Only way

only works for a totalitarian regime and terrified/compliant population.

next!

Thierry12

froog wrote: »

only works for a totalitarian regime and terrified/compliant population.

next!

Slovakia are a totalitarian?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/pledgetimes.com/slovakia-will-test-the-entire-population-in-two-days/amp/

They are going to test whole population in 2 days

8000 army troops on the ground

froog

Thierry12 wrote: »

Slovakia are a totalitarian?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/pledgetimes.com/slovakia-will-test-the-entire-population-in-two-days/amp/

They are going to test whole population in 2 days

8000 army troops on the ground

and what then? hope to fcuk you don't get a second outbreak and have to do the entire thing again at massive cost and risk mass rioting?

it's dumb.

PommieBast

Thierry12 wrote: »

Test the whole country every 2 weeks and put infected in regional hotels forcefully, guarded by army or garda outside, no asking people to quarantine crap

€98 per test multiplied by population of about 5 million multiplied by....

froog

froog wrote: »

so what is the alternative to lockdowns? i'm genuinely all ears. as i'm sure politicians and NPHET would be too.

there's one caveat - you can't collapse the health system. which will lead to many more deaths from lack of healthcare on top of the COVID deaths. this is simply not an option.

A few off the top of my head:

- Cocoon elderly and medically vulnerable as best as possible until a vaccine arrives for them.

- Immediately start putting more money into increasing ICU capacity. This should of been a priority during the first wave.

- Stop media scaremongering in relation to "case number" headlines. More focus on the numbers that actually matter: hospitalisations, ICU, and deaths.

- Start openly discussing treatments being tried/proving successful. More information on things like vitamins etc that boost the immune system and help if one is to become infected. For example, something simple like Vitamin D deficieny has been noted in many of the more serious cases. Discuss this through the media. Everything is very hush-hush as to how people are actually being treated. It's all just "we need a vaccine".

- The rest of the workforce and those not medically at risk from Covid need to get on with things in as sensible fashion as possible. Maintain good hygiene, social distancing, mask wearing etc. We can't "burn down the village to save it". We'll lose more people from that than Covid.

- Maintain similar restrictions to level 2-3 or so in regards to workplaces, transport, cafes, restaurants, sporting events etc. Still allows a level of living whilst moving forward cautiously.

- Fines for any people throwing big house parties etc, along with those who attend. As skeptical as I am towards these yo-yo lockdowns, increased restrictions/surveillance, and where it may all lead in future etc etc, big house parties and the like are just irresponsible at this stage.

- Stop restricting vital health services, screenings, operations etc. Trying to prevent Covid deaths by delaying cancer services, heart operations etc makes no sense. These diseases are more deadly, and will kill more people than Covid ever will.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Facebook and Youtube are two of the biggest platforms on the internet for people to voice their opinions. Even then, undesired comments are often censored. I don't know where else you're seeing these "highly favourable responses" you mentioned.



RTE is funded by the Irish government (via the taxpayer, whether we like it or not). The BBC is also funded in the same way, along with donations from the likes of the UN, Gates Foundation, and European Commission. As long as you understand, the news you're receiving comes through the filter of these governments and their funders. You cannot consider that completely objective or reliable. As I said before, just don't bulls**t yourself.

they are absolutely objective, as i said i check a number of different sources for my news and all of them, from lbc to ITV generally provide the same information, which shows that absolutely the likes of rte and bbc are objective.
they also have to be by law and the guidelines that they work under.

mikekerry wrote: »

Collapsing the economy is, also not a good idea.
No economy = no health system.
There are plenty of alternatives to lockdowns it just requires a bit of planning and intelligence.
Neither of those attributes are in supply with this goverment

collapsing a small, luxury part of it to save the majority of it is a necessary idea however unfortunately given the circumstances.
the reality is that quite likely if we did throw open the doors we would lose the lot, health system, economy etc.
if there were plenty of alternatives to lock downs then most countries would have tried at least 1 of them.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

A few off the top of my head:

- Cocoon elderly and medically vulnerable as best as possible until a vaccine arrives for them.

And their mental health for this 6-12 month plan?

- Immediately start putting more money into increasing ICU capacity. This should of been a priority during the first wave.

Not a money issue now, a staffing issue.

- Start openly discussing treatments being tried/proving successful. More information on things like vitamins etc that boost the immune system and help if one is to become infected. For example, something simple like Vitamin D deficieny has been noted in many of the more serious cases. Discuss this through the media. Everything is very hush-hush as to how people are actually being treated. It's all just "we need a vaccine".

Risk of people going down the self-medicating route and quackery. Already a programme for Vitamin D supplement in kids in winter.

- Maintain similar restrictions to level 2-3 or so in regards to workplaces, transport, cafes, restaurants, sporting events etc. Still allows a level of living whilst moving forward cautiously.

What does moving forward cautiously look like, metrics etc?

froog

Deleted User wrote: »

A few off the top of my head:

- Cocoon elderly and medically vulnerable as best as possible until a vaccine arrives for them.

- Immediately start putting more money into increasing ICU capacity. This should of been a priority during the first wave.

- Stop media scaremongering in relation to "case number" headlines. More focus on the numbers that actually matter: hospitalisations, ICU, and deaths.

- Start openly discussing treatments being tried/proving successful. More information on things like vitamins etc that boost the immune system and help if one is to become infected. For example, something simple like Vitamin D deficieny has been noted in many of the more serious cases. Discuss this through the media. Everything is very hush-hush as to how people are actually being treated. It's all just "we need a vaccine".

- The rest of the workforce and those not medically at risk from Covid need to get on with things in as sensible fashion as possible. Maintain good hygiene, social distancing, mask wearing etc. We can't "burn down the village to save it". We'll lose more people from that than Covid.

- Maintain similar restrictions to level 2-3 or so in regards to workplaces, transport, cafes, restaurants, sporting events etc. Still allows a level of living whilst moving forward cautiously.

- Fines for any people throwing big house parties etc, along with those who attend. As skeptical as I am towards these yo-yo lockdowns, increased restrictions/surveillance, and where it may all lead in future etc etc, big house parties and the like are just irresponsible at this stage.

- Stop restricting vital health services, screenings, operations etc. Trying to prevent Covid deaths by delaying cancer services, heart operations etc makes no sense. These diseases are more deadly, and will kill more people than Covid ever will.

so level 2 with cocooning basically? not going to work. uncontrolled spread will reach the 100s of thousands of at risk people.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

they are absolutely objective, as i said i check a number of different sources for my news and all of them, from lbc to ITV generally provide the same information, which shows that absolutely the likes of rte and bbc are objective.
they also have to be by law and the guidelines that they work under.

Why do you think CNN is completely anti-Trump, whereas Fox and the like are usually pro-Trump? Because they're funded by different corporations and different sides of the political spectrum.

I'll give you an example of RTE concealing/editing key information, and not being fully transparent. Lisa Smith, who went off to join ISIS and establish the caliphate, was interviewed afterwards about going over there. RTE ran that interview. On RTE, the end of the interview went:

Q: "Do you regret it?"
A: "I do regret it..."
CUT. END INTERVIEW.

How the interview actually ended:

Q: "Do you regret it?"
A: "I do regret it... because we didn't succeed".
END INTERVIEW.


Cutting out that line completely changes the end of the interview and viewer perception. That is not objective or honest news. If you still can't understand this, I can't help you anymore.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

A few off the top of my head:

- Cocoon elderly and medically vulnerable as best as possible until a vaccine arrives for them.

- Immediately start putting more money into increasing ICU capacity. This should of been a priority during the first wave.

- Stop media scaremongering in relation to "case number" headlines. More focus on the numbers that actually matter: hospitalisations, ICU, and deaths.

- Start openly discussing treatments being tried/proving successful. More information on things like vitamins etc that boost the immune system and help if one is to become infected. For example, something simple like Vitamin D deficieny has been noted in many of the more serious cases. Discuss this through the media. Everything is very hush-hush as to how people are actually being treated. It's all just "we need a vaccine".

- The rest of the workforce and those not medically at risk from Covid need to get on with things in as sensible fashion as possible. Maintain good hygiene, social distancing, mask wearing etc. We can't "burn down the village to save it". We'll lose more people from that than Covid.

- Maintain similar restrictions to level 2-3 or so in regards to workplaces, transport, cafes, restaurants, sporting events etc. Still allows a level of living whilst moving forward cautiously.

- Fines for any people throwing big house parties etc, along with those who attend. As skeptical as I am towards these yo-yo lockdowns, increased restrictions/surveillance, and where it may all lead in future etc etc, big house parties and the like are just irresponsible at this stage.

- Stop restricting vital health services, screenings, operations etc. Trying to prevent Covid deaths by delaying cancer services, heart operations etc makes no sense. These diseases are more deadly, and will kill more people than Covid ever will.

point 1 is already effectively the case but is advisery, which is all that can be done. it is only effective with virus suppression which we are engaging in.
point 2 i agree with but still requires virus suppression.
there is no media scaremongering, it's a myth perpetuated by those who have a problem with the reporting of facts. facts should always be reported, all numbers matter and many of us want such information to be provided. those who don't want that information can ignore it.
we are already discussing treatments openly where they have been absolutely proven, 100%, factually to work. we are not going to discuss bogy treatments that have proven to be in no way effective as is absolutely correct, just and right.
point 5 is already happening as much as is practical to do so given the circumstances. yes there will be some out of work but the unfortunate reality of a virus like this is that some businesses are having to be restricted as they require large numbers of mixing, or there just isn't demand for some services. ultimately we are burning a small part of the village to save the majority.
we will go back to level 3 in a few weeks, you can blame the small minority who rail against everything for us being in level 5.
fines for breaches i agree with, they should have come in at least once lock down finished.
i believe we have stopped restricting vital health services but there is a back log now because of the original restriction, which i personally disagreed with.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do you think CNN is completely anti-Trump, whereas Fox and the like are usually pro-Trump? Because they're funded by different corporations and different sides of the political spectrum.

I'll give you an example of RTE concealing/editing key information, and not being fully transparent. Lisa Smith, who went off to join ISIS and establish the caliphate, was interviewed afterwards about going over there. RTE ran that interview. On RTE, the end of the interview went:

Q: "Do you regret it?"
A: "I do regret it..."
CUT. END INTERVIEW.

How the interview actually ended:

Q: "Do you regret it?"
A: "I do regret it... because we didn't succeed".
END INTERVIEW.


Cutting out that line completely changes the end of the interview and viewer perception. That is not objective or honest news. If you still can't understand this, I can't help you anymore.

america is a very different beast, their media landscape is very very different to anything we could ever have.

mikekerry

Deleted User wrote: »

A few off the top of my head:

- Cocoon elderly and medically vulnerable as best as possible until a vaccine arrives for them.

- Immediately start putting more money into increasing ICU capacity. This should of been a priority during the first wave.

- Stop media scaremongering in relation to "case number" headlines. More focus on the numbers that actually matter: hospitalisations, ICU, and deaths.

- Start openly discussing treatments being tried/proving successful. More information on things like vitamins etc that boost the immune system and help if one is to become infected. For example, something simple like Vitamin D deficieny has been noted in many of the more serious cases. Discuss this through the media. Everything is very hush-hush as to how people are actually being treated. It's all just "we need a vaccine".

- The rest of the workforce and those not medically at risk from Covid need to get on with things in as sensible fashion as possible. Maintain good hygiene, social distancing, mask wearing etc. We can't "burn down the village to save it". We'll lose more people from that than Covid.

- Maintain similar restrictions to level 2-3 or so in regards to workplaces, transport, cafes, restaurants, sporting events etc. Still allows a level of living whilst moving forward cautiously.

- Fines for any people throwing big house parties etc, along with those who attend. As skeptical as I am towards these yo-yo lockdowns, increased restrictions/surveillance, and where it may all lead in future etc etc, big house parties and the like are just irresponsible at this stage.

- Stop restricting vital health services, screenings, operations etc. Trying to prevent Covid deaths by delaying cancer services, heart operations etc makes no sense. These diseases are more deadly, and will kill more people than Covid ever will.

Great Post.
Just one other thing to add stop falsifying case numbers by putting people down who dont rturn up for a test as positive. Put fines in place for no shows.
Stop with all this case nonsense all over the media

Kivaro

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll give you an example of RTE concealing/editing key information, and not being fully transparent. Lisa Smith, who went off to join ISIS and establish the caliphate, was interviewed afterwards about going over there. RTE ran that interview. On RTE, the end of the interview went:

Q: "Do you regret it?"
A: "I do regret it..."
CUT. END INTERVIEW.

How the interview actually ended:

Q: "Do you regret it?"
A: "I do regret it... because we didn't succeed".
END INTERVIEW.


Cutting out that line completely changes the end of the interview and viewer perception. That is not objective or honest news. If you still can't understand this, I can't help you anymore.

Astounding dishonesty and bias once again shown by RTE; our State Broadcaster. They are really not fit for purpose; especially with their hysteria and skewed reporting during Covid. This is the time when the country needs an impartial depiction/reporting of the situation in Ireland, but it will not be conveyed to us by RTE.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

And their mental health for this 6-12 month plan?

Support as best as possible through social distanced visits, designated times for shopping, recreational activities etc.
Objectively speaking, does it really make a massive difference to how they're currently living, considering we're going to be in and out of level 5 lockdowns now until a vaccine arrives? Kneecapping the economy will affect them and everybody else even more. As someone else pointed out, no economy = no health service.

is_that_so wrote: »

Risk of people going down the self-medicating route and quackery. Already a programme for Vitamin D supplement in kids in winter.

This does not equal a specific nationwide Covid Ad campaign for everybody to up their Vitamin D and other supplement intake to boost immune systems. I personally haven't heard or seen a single thing re: this from the government.
https://www.endocrinologynetwork.com/view/irish-doctors-call-changes-government-vitamin-d-recommendations

SusieBlue

Did someone really just refer to the loss over over 200k jobs this week as the loss of a ‘very small, luxury part of the economy’ or are my eyes deceiving me.
There is nothing small about shutting down retail, hotels, pubs, restaurants, gyms, beauticians, and hairdressers/barbers, among so many other smaller businesses and industries.
They are essential services to those who are employed in them and their clients.

The last time we had level 5 restrictions we had over 1.2 million people relying on financial support from the state, that is not a small amount of people and they should not be written off as collateral damage in this suicide mission the government are hell bent on sending us on.
It’s such an insensitive thing to say.

mikekerry

mikekerry wrote: »

Great Post.
Just one other thing to add stop falsifying case numbers by putting people down who dont rturn up for a test as positive.

If that is true, it's absolutely scandalous. Similar to Doctors in the States admitting to incentives for putting down deaths as "Covid", whether it was the primary cause of death or not.

Indicates they want higher numbers on record. For what?

end of the road

SusieBlue wrote: »

Did someone really just refer to the loss over over 200k jobs this week as the loss of a ‘very small, luxury part of the economy’ or are my eyes deceiving me.
There is nothing small about shutting down retail, hotels, pubs, restaurants, gyms, beauticians, and hairdressers/barbers, among so many other smaller businesses and industries.
They are essential services to those who are employed in them and their clients.

The last time we had level 5 restrictions we had over 1.2 million people relying on financial support from the state, that is not a small amount of people and they should not be written off as collateral damage in this suicide mission the government are hell bent on sending us on.
It’s such an insensitive thing to say.

i thought you put me on ignore? so why are you responding to my points now?
anyway, i'm afraid they are very much luxury services in the great scheme of things and if it is a choice between restricting them temporarily and losing much bigger, essential services then pubs jymns etc being restricted is the least worst option as such sectors will eventually recover.
there was no economic damage free covid 19, i wish there was but there isn't and priorities have to be made as we can't save every job even if we threw open the doors.

mikekerry

end of the road wrote: »

i thought you put me on ignore? so why are you responding to my points now?
anyway, i'm afraid they are very much luxury services in the great scheme of things and if it is a choice between restricting them temporarily and losing much bigger, essential services then pubs jymns etc being restricted is the least worst option as such sectors will eventually recover.
there was no economic damage free covid 19, i wish there was but there isn't and priorities have to be made as we can't save every job even if we threw open the doors.

Luxury services. What!
Thee is no need of any of these 'luxury services' being closed if the country was managed properly.
Plenty of other countries have kept pubs, restaurants open.
Just requires a little intelligence and good governance