No quitten we're whelan on to chitchat 11

patsy_mccabe

Guilty on all 3 counts.

Birdnuts

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Guilty on all 3 counts.

I'd say there is releif all round

Reggie.

Birdnuts wrote: »

I'd say there is releif all round

Hardly feels like a scapegoat. There was never going to be any other verdict with the political pressure

Waffletraktor

Reggie. wrote: »

Hardly feels like a scapegoat. There was never going to be any other verdict with the political pressure

Out within a year, easy argue a miss trial on appeall

blue5000

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Out within a year, easy argue a miss trial on appeall

He could be out in a box before that. Wouldn't like to be him in prison.

Hard Knocks

Seam to be having issues getting some cows incalf
Do all AI
Cow 19 days served rising on other cows, very wet behind, but they’re not rising on her
Started about 1230 last night & still at it
Should I just bring her to someone with a bull?

Kevhog1988

Reggie. wrote: »

Hardly feels like a scapegoat. There was never going to be any other verdict with the political pressure

And rightly so, what he did to that man was horrific.

wrangler

While the cop did overdo it, the victim wasn't innocent either.
If you use violent, forceful, or underhanded methods against other people, you can expect those same methods to be used against you.

I don't know how Garda go out here to protests where they have to behave and protestors don't. If you like it's open season on guards in those situations . Shooting a person carrying a knife is no crime in my eyes,
Elderly people in this country have endured horrific injuries, leaving them afraid to go back to their home, only for the offender to get off with a light or suspended sentence.

Kevhog1988

wrangler wrote: »

While the cop did overdo it, the victim wasn't innocent either.
If you use violent, forceful, or underhanded methods against other people, you can expect those same methods to be used against you.

I don't know how Garda go out here to protests where they have to behave and protestors don't. If you like it's open season on guards in those situations . Shooting a person carrying a knife is no crime in my eyes,
Elderly people in this country have endured horrific injuries, leaving them afraid to go back to their home, only for the offender to get off with a light or suspended sentence.

I dont necessarily agree with you there. a public servant should uphold the law of the country and not use uneccessary force. 9 and a half minutes kneeling on someones neck because they allegedly used a dodgy 20 dollar note is hardly justifiable??

Reggie.

blue5000 wrote: »

He could be out in a box before that. Wouldn't like to be him in prison.

He would be put in high security or isolation im guessing

Reggie.

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

And rightly so, what he did to that man was horrific.

Not really if ya followed the situation from the start that technique was shown to be trained as a restraining method and was even in the Chicago police manual. As shown by the American media shortly after that incident.

A few months later it disappeared and all his Lts and big brass in the ivory tower threw him under the bus to appease the masses. Worrying times when that begins to happen.

Odelay

wrangler wrote: »

While the cop did overdo it, the victim wasn't innocent either.
If you use violent, forceful, or underhanded methods against other people, you can expect those same methods to be used against you.

I don't know how Garda go out here to protests where they have to behave and protestors don't. If you like it's open season on guards in those situations . Shooting a person carrying a knife is no crime in my eyes,
Elderly people in this country have endured horrific injuries, leaving them afraid to go back to their home, only for the offender to get off with a light or suspended sentence.

It isn’t the officers job to be judge, jury and executioner.

Reggie.

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

I dont necessarily agree with you there. a public servant should uphold the law of the country and not use uneccessary force. 9 and a half minutes kneeling on someones neck because they allegedly used a dodgy 20 dollar note is hardly justifiable??

It wasn't because he used a dodgy 20 dollar note. He was arrested for that but only as he refused to comply with the police inquiries. He was restrained then as he resisted arrest. Sure they had him in the police car at one stage and had to remove him as he was going mad in the back seat. Sure what do ya do with that individual?

If George had just remained calm there would have been no issue from the start. He might not have even been arrested or if he was then a drive to the station that was it.

A certain amount of accountability has to be laid on George Floyd's shoulders too.

wrangler

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

I dont necessarily agree with you there. a public servant should uphold the law of the country and not use uneccessary force. 9 and a half minutes kneeling on someones neck because they allegedly used a dodgy 20 dollar note is hardly justifiable??

Once you break the law you should be prepared to kiss your rights goodbye.
Guards not enforcing the law here is the reason we are where we are. We've had a jeep stolen here and the house broke into on another occasion so I'd be less forgiving than some, nothing done by the guards on either occasion

Reggie.

Odelay wrote: »

It isn’t the officers job to be judge, jury and executioner.

You hardly think he went out there to kill that man. The charge should have been manslaughter not murder.

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

Once you break the law you should be prepared to kiss your rights goodbye.
Guards not enforcing the law here is the reason we are where we are. We've had a jeep stolen here and the house broke into on another occasion so I'd be less forgiving than some, nothing done by the guards on either occasion

Have to agree with you there. Work closely with the guards daily and all i can say is that im glad I'm retiring soon as this public opinion with great hindsight is a disaster.

No one takes into account of what is going on in the situation at the particular time. Very easy to look back on an action and criticise it once the heat has died down.

America is a nasty place to be atm. Public opinion carrys too much weight. Due process and justice sometimes suffers due to this

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

Have to agree with you there. Work closely with the guards daily and all i can say is that im glad I'm retiring soon as this public opinion with great hindsight is a disaster.

No one takes into account of what is going on in the situation at the particular time. Very easy to look back on an action and criticise it once the heat has died down.

America is a nasty place to be atm. Public opinion carrys too much weight. Due process and justice sometimes suffers due to this

The headers that are anti control get great coverage on socila media whereas those that are happy with status quo seldom voice their support
Trial by media, eh. no one should ever confuse law with justice.

Lime Tree Farm

It couldn't be brought up in court but there were 18 past complaints on Chauvin's file about his conduct before this incident.

Reggie.

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

It couldn't be brought up in court but there were 18 past complaints on Chauvin's file about his conduct before this incident.

Still not grounds for a murder conviction. Info like that cant be used to stereotype a defendant for good reason due to the fact its Very easy to make a complaint.

I know only too well after this last winter.

Lime Tree Farm

Reggie. wrote: »

Still not grounds for a murder conviction. Info like that cant be used to stereotype a defendant for good reason due to the fact its Very easy to make a complaint.

I know only too well after this last winter.

He had onlookers pleading with him to get off his neck - 9 minutes 29 seconds

Anto_Meath

My thoughts on it was Chauvin's went beyond what was required to restrain George Floyd and therefore the murder conviction is the correct one. But George Floyd was no Rosa Parks so I do feel sorry for Police / Garda having to deal with the like of this.

Reggie.

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

He had onlookers pleading with him to get off his neck - 9 minutes 29 seconds

This is true. He was trained in that technique. Now I believe the knee is supposed to be further back near the spine to restrain so he may have killed him due to that action but he didn't do it purposely or that wasn't proven beyond reasonable doubt. So that should have been a manslaughter charge not murder.

As for the people shouting at the police sure that is a common occurrence. That hardly proves murder. On a farming side of things how many people claim we are ruining the environment raping cows, ripping baby's away from mothers, treating animals inhumanly....... just because people shout this about doesn't make it true.

You'll find that that's the tactic that's employed by many protesters nowadays even in Ireland. Out with the cameras and shouting false claims to rally up the crowds or edit videos to show flashpoints only. When replayed then all over social media many don't look for the cations building up tho that moment or the cause of effect reaction scenario. Too many people take videos as first hand information and whoever gets the message out first us usually the one that's believed.

Reggie.

Anto_Meath wrote: »

My thoughts on it was Chauvin's went beyond what was required to restrain George Floyd and therefore the murder conviction is the correct one. But George Floyd was no Rosa Parks so I do feel sorry for Police / Garda having to deal with the like of this.

But why murder. On what grounds?

Anto_Meath

Chauvin spent 9 minutes kneeling on a man's neck until he stopped breathing, that is a hell of a long time in that situation, he had to have noticed what it was doing to Floyd and that he was becoming weak. If any of us had an animal restrained for that long you would be checking on it to ensure it was ok.

Reggie.

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Chauvin spent 9 minutes kneeling on a man's neck until he stopped breathing, that is a hell of a long time in that situation, he had to have noticed what it was doing to Floyd and that he was becoming weak. If any of us had an animal restrained for that long you would be checking on it to ensure it was ok.

We would of but did he do it intentionally? Can you prove it to me?

You describing the will of the masses there where you have your mind made up. This is the issue I'm getting at. There isn't any legal grounds for a murder conviction here only for political and will off the masses.

The prosecution has to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the officer went out there to end George floyds life with no hesitation from the start. That is what a murder conviction is in the legal system. Can you say that was the case?

Manslaughter no doubt as a man's life was ended but only was convicted of murder due to pressure. You have to see where this is a problem for society.

Anto_Meath

Reggie, I would agree with you that there was political pressure to find Chauvin guilty of murder and there will probably be a retrial / judicial review with the sentence reduced to man slaughter. However Chauvin roll as a police officer is to "serve and protect" in this case he did neither for George Floyd. If it was you or me that killed Floyd in a similar manor then it would be manslaughter but Chauvin had a specific roll in society so therefore he should be held accountable to a higher standard.

Reggie.

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Reggie, I would agree with you that there was political pressure to find Chauvin guilty of murder and there will probably be a retrial / judicial review with the sentence reduced to man slaughter. However Chauvin roll as a police officer is to "serve and protect" in this case he did neither for George Floyd. If it was you or me that killed Floyd in a similar manor then it would be manslaughter but Chauvin had a specific roll in society so therefore he should be held accountable to a higher standard.

No doubt but the political aspect should not have merged into the legal system.

The fact the trial was broadcast live on television was the real eye opener. It was just a hand washing exercise for the American government.

That doesn't happen in Europe to protect the legal process. Just shows what America is becoming really.

greysides

Reggie. wrote: »

That doesn't happen in Europe to protect the legal process. Just shows what America is becoming really.

Reality TV! I blame their last President. Although in truth, it was probably going like that a long time ago.

Reggie.

greysides wrote: »

Reality TV! I blame their last President. Although in truth, it was probably going like that a long time ago.

The auld film idiocracy comes to mind

laoch na mona

Reggie. wrote: »

No doubt but the political aspect should not have merged into the legal system.

The fact the trial was broadcast live on television was the real eye opener. It was just a hand washing exercise for the American government.

That doesn't happen in Europe to protect the legal process. Just shows what America is becoming really.

I think they've televised trials for a good while, the OJ Simpson trial was televised i think