No quitten we're whelan on to chitchat 11

The Rabbi

Reggie. wrote: »

The auld film idiocracy comes to mind

I often reccomend that film to people.I think it should be on the school syllabus,just like Animal Farm,Lord of the flies and 1984.

laoch na mona

Birdnuts wrote: »

I'd say there is releif all round

A welcome bit of justice.


Mad to see people on social media still trying to defend the indefensible. Thank christ for camera phones.
Resisting police might get you man handled but it shouldn't get you killed, we had issues with the gardai back in the day man handling people when they felt like it and it wasn't acceptable here.

Although he is probably being thrown under the bus in that whoever trained him to kneel on a persons neck needs to be accountable in some way as well.

Maybe a system like we ave where the use of a firearm by police should automatically trigger an investigation os the best way to deal with policing all things considered


Although televised trials aren't a good thing

Reggie.

laoch na mona wrote: »

I think they've televised trials for a good while, the OJ Simpson trial was televised i think

Yeah but in this case with so much cultural anger behind it. Sure the pressure on witnesses would be immense. There's a chance of retrial there as the testimonies could be claimed to be influenced

Reggie.

The Rabbi wrote: »

I often reccomend that film to people.I think it should be on the school syllabus,just like Animal Farm,Lord of the flies and 1984.

As a society I believe we are retreating a little.

As the saying goes....soft times create soft people which create hard times.....hard times create hard people who create soft times.

Its a vicious circle

laoch na mona

Reggie. wrote: »

Yeah but in this case with so much cultural anger behind it. Sure the pressure on witnesses would be immense. There's a chance of retrial there as the testimonies could be claimed to be influenced

Trials really shouldn't be that public but America is a silly place ran by silly people

Reggie.

laoch na mona wrote: »

A welcome bit of justice.


Mad to see people on social media still trying to defend the indefensible. Thank christ for camera phones.


Although televised trials aren't a good thing

Tbh I think camera phones aren't a good thing. Too much info at times from the wrong or biased perspective is not good.

Plus very very few videos uploaded are not edited. Rarely you get the full story unfortunately

Reggie.

laoch na mona wrote: »

Trials really shouldn't be that public but America is a silly place ran by silly people

Unfortunately you can see ireland slowly following suit tho. Our politics are getting abit like that now

laoch na mona

Reggie. wrote: »

Unfortunately you can see ireland slowly following suit tho. Our politics are getting abit like that now

we've always imported ideas from America unfortunately, you definatly see it on social media trolls on all sides just on the attack convinced they're 100% correct all the time.


Saw it a bit with the lad killed in Dublin by gardai, on one side clowns acting like it was US stlye racist trigger happy cops on the other side clowns saying any agression towards a garda deserves a death sentence



The sane middle ground of yes it might have been unavoidable in the circumstances but the goal of the gardai should be to arrest someone not kill them was shockingly absent

laoch na mona

Reggie. wrote: »

Tbh I think camera phones aren't a good thing. Too much info at times from the wrong or biased perspective is not good.

Plus very very few videos uploaded are not edited. Rarely you get the full story unfortunately

I mean in the american context of a well documented overly violent police force that for decades got away with things because no one could film them (among other reasons)


bodycams are better in my opinion in as a rule but in this case we had a full unedited video of a man being slowly killed yes he shared some of the blame for initially escalating a routine arrest but the evidence was pretty clear the cop went well beyond what anyone could consider reasonable.


anyway america isn't going to change, a 13 year old was shot the other day they're a third world country at this point

Water John

Doesn't have to be either premeditated or intentional to be murder. If death was a possible outcome and you don't take evasive action, then it's murder not manslaughter.

A police officer discharges their weapon when they perceive an immediate threat of serious injury to themselves or someone else. I have sympathy for that one second decision that has to be made. Have sympathy for the officer who used her gun and thought she was using a taser. Chauvin cannot hide behind such cases.

Kevhog1988

Water John wrote: »

Doesn't have to be either premeditated or intentional to be murder. If death was a possible outcome and you don't take evasive action, then it's murder not manslaughter.

A police officer discharges their weapon when they perceive an immediate threat of serious injury to themselves or someone else. I have sympathy for that one second decision that has to be made. Have sympathy for the officer who used her gun and thought she was using a taser. Chauvin cannot hide behind such cases.

100%, A police officer is a public servant and as citizens of a modern society we should not be in fear of the "upholders" of the law just because of the colour of our skin, our race or our religion. I honestly think some of the people posting here today would seriously benefit from seeing some of the world outside their own parish to understand what being prejudiced against is like. Its not so long ago there was signs saying no dogs no blacks no irish in the UK.

Reggie.

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

100%, A police officer is a public servant and as citizens of a modern society we should not be in fear of the "upholders" of the law just because of the colour of our skin, our race or our religion. I honestly think some of the people posting here today would seriously benefit from seeing some of the world outside their own parish to understand what being prejudiced against is like. Its not so long ago there was signs saying no dogs no blacks no irish in the UK.

Thats is very true but public servants are only human too. Mistakes are made. Only problem is their mistakes are usually plastered all over social media to be scrutinised. Just remember that garda who committed suicide after the Gemma incident. He did nothing wrong but was constantly bombarded with abuse as a result.

You have to remember that the pressure we can be under when any action we take can be displayed in a certain light to whatever suits the beliefs of the person that documents it.

People should also remember that they dont have to second guess decisions day to day as they do their job.

Also I never in any fear of the police here or anywhere. If people feel that way then they have to ask themselves why.

Kevhog1988

Reggie. wrote: »

Thats is very true but public servants are only human too. Mistakes are made. Only problem is their mistakes are usually plastered all over social media to be scrutinised. Just remember that garda who committed suicide after the Gemma incident. He did nothing wrong but was constantly bombarded with abuse as a result.

You have to remember that the pressure we can be under when any action we take can be displayed in a certain light to whatever suits the beliefs of the person that documents it.

People should also remember that they dont have to second guess decisions day to day as they do their job.

Also I never in any fear of the police here or anywhere. If people feel that way then they have to ask themselves why.

You dont because you're a white male just like me... We were both lucky to be born white and male in a developed country so we have always grown up with "privilege". We dont have to explain to our kids what they need to do from a young age when encountering police because our police force is not inherently racist like the US. We wont be automatically stopped driving down the road because we're white like they are over there if they're black. If you have a few minutes spare here's two videos i've seen a few times that accurately portray life in America:

1. A fairly simple but interesting video explaining how privilege works. Particularily in America, not every person gets the same chance to succeed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K5fbQ1-zps

2.Florida police very obviously pulled over a black woman for no apparent reason (racial profiling). It turned out she was a state attorney.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiUkbE_ktHs

enricoh

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

You dont because you're a white male just like me... We were both lucky to be born white and male in a developed country so we have always grown up with "privilege". We dont have to explain to our kids what they need to do from a young age when encountering police because our police force is not inherently racist like the US. We wont be automatically stopped driving down the road because we're white like they are over there if they're black. If you have a few minutes spare here's two videos i've seen a few times that accurately portray life in America:

1. A fairly simple but interesting video explaining how privilege works. Particularily in America, not every person gets the same chance to succeed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K5fbQ1-zps

2.Florida police very obviously pulled over a black woman for no apparent reason (racial profiling). It turned out she was a state attorney.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiUkbE_ktHs

In countries with a majority of black people have they black privilege? Or is it just a one way street?!
Asians are very successful in the states is it coz of privelige or that they are hard grafters?

Reggie.

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

You dont because you're a white male just like me... We were both lucky to be born white and male in a developed country so we have always grown up with "privilege". We dont have to explain to our kids what they need to do from a young age when encountering police because our police force is not inherently racist like the US. We wont be automatically stopped driving down the road because we're white like they are over there if they're black. If you have a few minutes spare here's two videos i've seen a few times that accurately portray life in America:

1. A fairly simple but interesting video explaining how privilege works. Particularily in America, not every person gets the same chance to succeed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K5fbQ1-zps

2.Florida police very obviously pulled over a black woman for no apparent reason (racial profiling). It turned out she was a state attorney.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiUkbE_ktHs

Well if you believe your first statement then you have a biased view on me straight away. How do you know what struggles I've had in my life and what I've done to get to where I am today. I've never seen any "white privilege" that you speak about. So from your explanation my house and all my machinery and such I would have gotten anyways whichever I worked hard or not just because I'm white and male.

This white privilege effort to be honest I don't know what to make of it and why anyone would even want to mention it. Everyone starts life the same way and what effort you put in is the success you get out of it.

Dont know what your trying to show in your first video. All it shows that the parents of the kids up the front stayed married, the father stayed at home and both parents provided for their kids. How does that translate to privilege?
The parents of them kids worked hard and if that gives them a head start well that's down to the parents and not some privilege. It actually speaks poorly of the coloured community as the family unit isn't present I believe. Young mothers getting pregnant out of wedlock or young fathers abandoning the mother and child.

The second video just shows the cops pulling over a car due to the fact that they ran the number plate and no info came back and also they explained they couldn't see into the car so they pulled over the car to investigate as they explained the car could have been stolen.
The occupant and police officer were both polite to each other and both complied with each others questions so again no issue there. Just because the female driver was a person of colour doesn't mean they tore up the road after her.

Suckler

wrangler wrote: »

Once you break the law you should be prepared to kiss your rights goodbye.

Reggie. wrote: »

Everyone starts life the same way and what effort you put in is the success you get out of it.

"Privilege" is being able to make, frankly, unbelievably stupid statements like this. We were lucky to grow up in a corner of the world that you never had to experience the opposite of the manure your're both spreading.

Hard graft indeed...Irish army and retiring very young...... how many have that option after only 20 odd years.....

As another poster said, lack of perspective outside the farm gate is obviously evident.

Reggie.

Suckler wrote: »

"Privilege" is being able to make, frankly, unbelievably stupid statements like this. We were lucky to grow up in a corner of the world that you never had to experience the opposite of the manure your're both spreading.

Hard graft indeed...Irish army and retiring very young...... how many of us have that option after 20 odd years.....

As another poster said, a bit of perspective outside the farm gate is obviously evident.

Can't see how its a stupid statement to claim the harder you work at life the more you'll get out of it but thats talking manure according to yourself.
Sure isn't that what your supposed to teach your children. Work hard and earn an honest living.

I think your confusing "privilege" with freedom of speech.

Also how is doing 21 years in the military privilege. No one forced me to join the military but I did also no one stopped anyone else from joining the military and being where I am also.

So because I made a certain decision when I was 17 to join the military and then after 21 hard years serving in the military I get a pension and that's "white privilege" but how exactly is that manure exactly? Why didn't you join the military then when you were of age? Did someone stop you?

Also never claimed we dont live in a good part of the world. I couldn't agree more that we do and I would know.

If anything id say I'm one of the best qualified here as I've travelled to the many of the most inhospitable countries in the world compared to most here and spent many years away from loved ones and home as a result.

I well know how the other side live.
Also from my experience the problems in such countries are mainly inflicted from mainly corruption and civil strife. Usually from their own governments.

I've seen plenty of horrors in my life that i won't mention which were well outside the farm gate but there are many making claims and never passed the local shop.

Suckler

Reggie. wrote: »

Can't see how its a stupid statement to claim the harder you work at life the more you'll get out of it but thats talking manure according to yourself.

It's stupid because you're completely oversimplifying it. By your account (and experience - fair play to you, honestly) simply working hard will get you where and what you want. You and I were born in a place where that can be realised.

Reggie. wrote: »

Sure isn't that what your supposed to teach your children. Work hard and earn an honest living.

As above, it's not that simple for many. Your're suggestions that privileged just 'don't work hard enough' is ridiculous.

Reggie. wrote: »

If anything id say I'm one of the best qualified here as I've travelled to the many of the most inhospitable countries in the world compared to most here and spent many years away from loved ones and home as a result.

As have I, and I'll happily wager worse than you've been to. Often places that suffer so we can have luxuries like oil, cobalt, nickel etc.
Did you land to those places and tell the poor people just to work harder and their troubles will be over? Doubt it.

Reggie. wrote: »

I well know how the other side live.
Also from my experience the problems in such countries are mainly inflicted from mainly corruption and civil strife. Usually from their own governments.

Hence our privilege by grace of luck to be born in Ireland. For example; when you buy new machinery, do local militia/gangs turn up at your door and let you know they'll collect a few hundred off you weekly ? If you drive in to a different area to your own are you automatically pulled over? Again that's a privilege we enjoy by grace of luck of where and when we landed.

I'm guessing your within 100 miles of Northern Ireland; not very long ago being born two streets away from another person could mean two very different life experiences, irrespective of 'hard work'.

Reggie. wrote: »

I've seen plenty of horrors in my life that i won't mention which were well outside the farm gate but there are many making claims and never passed the local shop.

You saw it but took nothing from it.

Water John

enricoh wrote: »

In countries with a majority of black people have they black privilege? Or is it just a one way street?!
Asians are very successful in the states is it coz of privelige or that they are hard grafters?

Asians were never slaves in US, nor were the Jim Crowe suppression laws aimed at them.

Reggie.

Alright guys. Good trash about and debate. Always enjoy a good one.

All points taken on board but gonna have to step away now as my attendation is elsewhere.

Stay safe troops.

wrangler

Suckler wrote: »

"Privilege" is being able to make, frankly, unbelievably stupid statements like this. We were lucky to grow up in a corner of the world that you never had to experience the opposite of the manure your're both spreading.

Hard graft indeed...Irish army and retiring very young...... how many have that option after only 20 odd years.....

As another poster said, lack of perspective outside the farm gate is obviously evident.

If you don't agree with showing respect to others is probably a reflection of your character. Those that break the law should have no rights, People work too hard to have a quality of life to see any interference tolerated

Suckler

wrangler wrote: »

If you don't agree with showing respect to others is probably a reflection of your character.

I never stated that or even hinted at it. Ridiculous to even try to misrepresent what I said.

wrangler wrote: »

Those that break the law should have no rights

If you can't see how stupid that is its definitely a reflection of your character.

whelan2

Lovely sunset out this evening

Dinzee Conlee

whelan2 wrote: »

Lovely sunset out this evening

Not here - but like the change in topic Whelan :)

Odelay

wrangler wrote: »

If you don't agree with showing respect to others is probably a reflection of your character. Those that break the law should have no rights, People work too hard to have a quality of life to see any interference tolerated

1. Who determines they have broken the law? Is that for the police to do? I thought it was the courts?

2. No rights?? Are they not entitled to fair process?

I'm no leftist, but there has to be some bit of civility and fair process, without that the good are no better than the bad. Just because someone reaches a certain level doesn't mean the gloves are off.

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

no one should ever confuse law with justice.

Nor should they consider the Gardaí or Police forces in general as beyond reproach. I've witnessed a Garda lie in court. He was caught for it by a solicitor and made a fool out of by the judge.

greysides

Suckler wrote: »

I never stated that or even hinted at it. Ridiculous to even try to misrepresent what I said.



If you can't see how stupid that is its definitely a reflection of your character.

Mod:

It's been a good argument but that's over the line. Stop!

Grueller

whelan2 wrote: »

Lovely sunset out this evening

Absolutely. However it was spoiled by having to chase sucklers out to their own side of a fence during it.

greysides

whelan2 wrote: »

Lovely sunset out this evening

Lovely bright orange sun in a pale pink sky. Sun shining through dust.

Would love to have caught it on camera but I was driving and the phone just doesn't handle sunset colours correctly.

patsy_mccabe

We have a little Jack Russel here and since the Labrador dog next-door attacked him, we have to keep him locked up. It was my turn today to take him out for a short walk to do his business. When I opened the pen where he was, he wouldn't come out, cowering down and wouldn't move. Couldn't figure out what was wrong till I realised I had work gloves on and he taught he was getting washed. Off with the gloves and out he came

He wouldn't let me walk him towards the water tap either, would only go the other way around it. The gas thing is, I haven't washed him in over a year.